Post Count Enabled in Polls Aye or Nay?

[LordCowCowCowCowCowCowCowCow]

Alright here's the basic idea. Polls has been pretty much full of spam for a while and until recent (as of a short time ago) had post count enabled.

 

So either.

 

Aye: Enable post count, and make sure to doll out punishments to those who don't give reasoning/spam/etc.

Nay: Disable post count, and let the spam flow freely, let people post however they please.

 

 

Of course there's pros and cons to either side, so explain your reasoning, YCM.

[Flash Flyer - Sakura]

I'd say allow it; provided posts stay under control.

Technically speaking, the place is essentially dead without all of the tournaments going on.

 

Provided you give a legitimate reason to why you're voting for a certain option; things should be fine.

Additionally, just limit the amount of contest threads you post at a time; so place doesn't flood like mad. (4-6 per day should be fine)

 

---

I promise to keep my reaction stuff in said GPT to a minimum though; basically there to announce scores and end matches when it's time.

Next batch of matches will not go up until Friday.

[Mugendramon]

Nay, keep things as they are, which is to say fun.

 

Not having to worry about writing a thesis over why I prefer bishes over shotas is why anyone bothers to post there at all.

[Maeriberii Haan]

Quite honestly, I don't want to have Polls be moderated as what we're trying to do with General. It's really a place for us to gush about what we like, diss other's choices, and act like a fanboy in general. A place to be silly and to talk freely about things like that.

 

The matter of thing is, ultimately, this is not a 1v1 fanboy debate section. Everything boils down to preferences, and while we can still get actual discussion from it, I'd rather just have it lose post count for more freedom.

 

The current state of things in the section is completely not fitting for post count (otherwise, we'll be hypocritical since we enforces anti-spam rules in other sections that has post count), and quite honestly, I liked it.

[Flash Flyer - Sakura]

Nay, keep things as they are, which is to say fun.

 

Not having to worry about writing a thesis over why I prefer bishes over shotas is why anyone bothers to post there at all.

1-2 sentences should be sufficient enough to explain your reasoning; not like we'd expect you to write an essay like CC does to some degree.

You can still talk freely about your preferences (and have fun with it), but more/less just don't write a 2 word post saying "(option) gmv" and leave.

 

That being said, there are some serious discussions in Polls at times, but as most of you know by now, it's essentially the tournament stuff keeping things alive in there lately.

And not all of the comments there are spammy; reactions, yes, but have some degree of explanation behind it.

 

---

That in mind, some of the tournaments did ask that you refrain from bashing a member for voting a certain way; you might not like their choice, but just hold your breath and let things go as they are.

 

On that note, it's really up to .Rai to determine if he'd want to do this, given it's under his jurisdiction.

 

 

(Also interesting to note that as of this post, only the three of us even said anything [staff].)

[LordCowCowCowCowCowCowCowCow]

Nay, keep things as they are, which is to say fun.

 

Not having to worry about writing a thesis over why I prefer bishes over shotas is why anyone bothers to post there at all.

I would like to ask two things to this.

1.) Are you saying that post count = not fun?

2.) Whoever said thesis? If you don't have more than "I like this" to say, no reason to post. But you could easily have something of a little more substance.

Not to mention you're taking a single example.

 

 

Anyway, as obvious from my statement, I prefer it to have post count enabled. See, this is how I feel about it. If you don't have much to say, you can vote, and then leave it at that. But if you want to explain a bit of why you voted that way (which doesn't have to be super long, obviously not every section makes you write a book each post) then you can post and discuss. Simple as that.

[Mugendramon]

I would like to ask two things to this.

1.) Are you saying that post count = not fun?

2.) Whoever said thesis? If you don't have more than "I like this" to say, no reason to post. But you could easily have something of a little more substance.

Not to mention you're taking a single example.

 

 

Anyway, as obvious from my statement, I prefer it to have post count enabled. See, this is how I feel about it. If you don't have much to say, you can vote, and then leave it at that. But if you want to explain a bit of why you voted that way (which doesn't have to be super long, obviously not every section makes you write a book each post) then you can post and discuss. Simple as that.

 

Sorry, I was just phrasing in a way that would make my point explicit in fewer words.

 

What I meant to say is what Nai said afterwards: everything is about personal preference and for the most part there is usually not much to say when making your choice in polls. To get more serious about the section would imply not only moderation but also being more strict and 'official' with polls. That would make it less fun, not post count itself. It would be a floodgate, that's all.

 

EDIT: Granted I spoke of a single example, but you can tell that aside of organized systematic tournaments, that's as good as polls gets.

[Maeriberii Haan]

Do post count even matter this much?

 

If it matters, then you should get it with a bit of an effort, and thus, the section's posting standard should actually exist. But as has been said, the section's simply for fun and all, and to make people actually need some effort to just tell people why they gush about their preferences doesn't seem like a good idea in the end, to be honest.

 

If it doesn't matter? Then there's no reason to not remove it from the section. It's only numbers under someone's avatar after all. Why this one instead of other section? Since this is the lowest on the chopping block right now.

 

The main argument to remove it is due to the inherently spammy nature of the section, and the fact that there's no point in actually moderating the posts in the section.

 

So, what is the main argument to keep it?

[Flash Flyer - Sakura]

Like I mentioned earlier, just set a limit on the amount of threads you can post per day in the section.

 

4-6 at the maximum should be enough, so in the case of tournaments (like Cow's Fire Emblem one and the current Grand Pokémon Tournament), things can get done at a reasonable pace + not drag one for several months.

 

Again, 1-2 sentences of opinion isn't really hard to do; for instance, you could just say "(character) gmv, because of memories I've had playing with them in (game)" or something along those lines.

That would be fine; not going to ask you for an essay on why you chose a specific choice + opinion on others (if you want to do that, go ahead but we're not mandating that you do). 

 

---

Or as Cow noted, you can just vote in the poll and be done with things, if you just like the character + can't find words to express yourself.

A lot of members do that.

 

 

Polls can still be fun, but just crack down on 2-3 word posts.

We're not going to enforce an AC like what Custom Cards and RPs have, but at the minimum, just make sure things are more/less orderly.

 

 

---

I would suggest giving tournament threads their own sub-area, but given Polls is already dead as-is, not a good idea.

[LordCowCowCowCowCowCowCowCow]

Do post count even matter this much?

 

If it matters, then you should get it with a bit of an effort, and thus, the section's posting standard should actually exist. But as has been said, the section's simply for fun and all, and to make people actually need some effort to just tell people why they gush about their preferences doesn't seem like a good idea in the end, to be honest.

 

If it doesn't matter? Then there's no reason to not remove it from the section. It's only numbers under someone's avatar after all. Why this one instead of other section? Since this is the lowest on the chopping block right now.

 

The main argument to remove it is due to the inherently spammy nature of the section, and the fact that there's no point in actually moderating the posts in the section.

 

So, what is the main argument to keep it?

 

See the problem is your main argument is inherently flawed. You say the section is spammy, and yet, without the rules being enforced in other sections...they would have the same fate. Why is there a point in moderating General and not Polls? You're not really having any substance in your post you're just saying "It's spammy so let's just leave it to the buzzards instead of trying to make it less so."

 

Basically. It sounds like you're saying "There's no point in moderating it because it's spammy"

And "It's spammy because it's not moderated."

[Mugendramon]

See the problem is your main argument is inherently flawed. You say the section is spammy, and yet, without the rules being enforced in other sections...they would have the same fate. Why is there a point in moderating General and not Polls? You're not really having any substance in your post you're just saying "It's spammy so let's just leave it to the buzzards instead of trying to make it less so."

 

Basically. It sounds like you're saying "There's no point in moderating it because it's spammy"

And "It's spammy because it's not moderated."

 

The actual argument is let's not moderate it because having the section be loose is more fun for the people posting there. But since it's loose because it's more fun let's not have it increase post count. Like misc.

 

That's where I stand on the matter at least.

[Maeriberii Haan]

The main point is not that.

 

It's not spammy because we don't moderate it.

 

It's spammy because it is, and there's no point in having it in any other way. To reiterate, it's a place to have fun, not to discuss why A is objectively and subjectively better than B.

 

Sakura said that we can just give each post 2-3 to explain our choices more, but really, most of the time it's simply forced fluff. The substance is the same in the end even with that enforced, so it in the end won't make the section any better content-wise. Just it makes things more taxing, and would make there be less reasoning to post in the section.

 

You can generate more actual discussions with more content in most other sections, as far as I can see, so there's also that fact.

 

And tbh, you haven't explained why it should stay.

[LordCowCowCowCowCowCowCowCow]

It's spammy because it is, and there's no point in having it in any other way. To reiterate, it's a place to have fun, not to discuss why A is objectively and subjectively better than B.

 

Sakura said that we can just give each post 2-3 to explain our choices more, but really, most of the time it's simply forced fluff. The substance is the same in the end even with that enforced, so it in the end won't make the section any better content-wise. Just it makes things more taxing, and would make there be less reasoning to post in the section.

 

You can generate more actual discussions with more content in most other sections, as far as I can see, so there's also that fact.

 

And tbh, you haven't explained why it should stay.

 

First, I hadn't explained yet why it should stay because, you really haven't given a decent reason for it not to, from what I can tell.

 

To reiterate, post count being enable doesn't mean it's not fun. That's silly logic and it detracts from your point that you keep saying that.

If you want to generalize then how about this. General, as of late, seems to be a place where people say "Oh that's bad that this thing is happening". I could safely say a good quarter at least of the posts there are simple opinions + fluff, with some discussion there as well.

 

You don't seem to understand that...there's literally no point in posting in Poll if all you have to say is you like something, because you already did that with a vote.

Post Count enabled would mean that the people who want to actually give a little more and have a discussion over why they prefer X over Y will get a post for it. While those who only want to vote and don't have anything more than "I like this" can just vote.

More or less....it's to promote discussion that isn't covered in the flood of spammy "I like this" posts.

 

With it enabled you get the best of both worlds. The fun of voting for your favorites or whatever, and the ability to express your opinion when you have more to say.

 

Edit: Also. In case anyone thinks this is the reason. I don't really care about my personal post count, besides that it's neat to reach certain levels.

If you don't believe that, then I have a request. Mods, if you can disable post count for me, do it.

[Flash Flyer - Sakura]

You'll have to ask Night to do that for you; because I don't believe it's in my power (nor in Nai, Aix's or whomever). 

 

But yeah, whatever Cow mentioned sums it up nicely.

If you want to say something useful, go ahead. If not, just vote in the poll and be done with it.

 

It is a lot easier to count poll votes instead of manual post-based ones, however it is nice when people elaborate on their opinions.

From observation, a lot of the newer members just vote in the poll and not speak.

 

Again, not all of the voting posts are spam-based (by our discretion); a few of them have detailed responses and what not.

I tend to explain a bit about why I vote a certain way before doing it; although certain cases I just vote and not say things because I really don't know what is appropriate in that area.

 

(The latter part is a rare occurrence though, but you get it. You're not REQUIRED to manually explain your vote and THEN go vote in the poll)

 

---

People care about their post count so they can get certain ranks (and privileges), so we need to keep it like that.

Also serves as a marker to indicate how far one has come.

 

@Nai: I said 1-2 sentences to explain; essentially the Casual AC requirement, if you will. And it doesn't take long to even write stuff in accordance with it.

 

---

I've said enough in this case.

[LordCowCowCowCowCowCowCowCow]

Time to get personal, and emotional (maybe for the last time), up in here.

Having post count in Polls, and having it be more moderated and....not just Misc with polls...personally it makes me feel like I'm actually making a difference in this place. Like what I'm posting actually...matters. Without that, there's not really much I can comfortably say I feel good about what I've done here.

 

This is not my entire reason. Mostly it's what I stated earlier. However this feeling is there. It's probably why me and Sakura are the ones defending it.

 

Because otherwise it just feels there's no point, it doesn't matter, doesn't make a difference. It's just another empty pit of spam. With no soul, no substance, no purpose.

I'm not asking simply for Post Count in Polls. I'm asking to make Polls into a place that actually means something, even if just in a small way.

[Simping For Hina]

Do post counts still matter?

[Flash Flyer - Sakura]

Do post counts still matter?

Yeah, if you want to do certain things like make an opinion on certain things or become Legendary rank.

And some people still care about it.

 

That and their reps, but that's off-topic at this point so I will not elaborate further.

 

---

In essence, if you want to elaborate on poll votes, then go ahead. Otherwise, just leave your poll vote there and move on.

And again, 1-2 sentences isn't a lot to write; I even provided a hypothetical example that you can use.

 

Or in other cases, if you have enough time to write an opinion here, 1-2 sentences shouldn't be a problem in there.

 

---

Again though, we're talking about this amongst ourselves; especially with .Rai since Polls does fall under his section control (in General).

I don't mind limiting the amount of active threads at a time if that'll stop Polls from being flooded from them, but bottom line; Polls shouldn't be getting post count cut down. 

 

tl;dr, just cut down the 2-3 word vote posts like "(character) gmv b/c things" or something along those lines.

[LordCowCowCowCowCowCowCowCow]

I would like to bring a few threads to the attention of all those who are making a decision about this. (from VG and General because I go there and remember them) These are just several examples, and I know I could find more.

 

http://forum.yugiohcardmaker.net/topic/326934-the-2014-steam-holiday-sale/

 

http://forum.yugiohcardmaker.net/topic/327334-xbox-360-games-to-play-with-friends-over/

 

http://forum.yugiohcardmaker.net/topic/326353-what-are-your-top-5-video-games/

 

http://forum.yugiohcardmaker.net/topic/330723-how-do-you-like-your-eggs/

 

http://forum.yugiohcardmaker.net/topic/330509-moment-where-date-and-time-will-match-pi-out-into-infinity/

 

http://forum.yugiohcardmaker.net/topic/330353-ireland-accidentally-makes-heterosexual-marriage-illegal-and-makes-three-class-a-drugs-legal-somehow/

 

http://forum.yugiohcardmaker.net/topic/330206-harrison-ford-involved-in-a-plane-crash/

 

 

 

 

 

What makes these threads/replies okay to have post count for, and yet Polls "don't generate enough discussion". It seems to me that discussion can be had just as easily in Polls as anywhere else.

 

I'll be perfectly honest here. It feels like the main argument against having Post Count in Polls is that...You don't want to bother moderating it.

I mean, we're semi-strict about most other sections with post count, why not this one?

[Andx]

I would just like to mention that Polls is like entirely dead when these tournaments aren't happening. And they often do okay for the most part in terms of peoples posts. So I have no idea where anyone is getting the "polls is spammy" idea outside of isolated threads which are part of every single section in this forum.

 

But more importantly I don't like this mod mindset of "I don't want to deal with it so let's disable post count". Mods are supposed to mod. Not just give up on entire sections of the forum. Clubs was ridiculously hard to keep under control in its time but now it's completely dead. That's all that's going to happen to polls as a result of this. It's not going to be "more loose/fun" for people. They're going to stop using it entirely.

 

As already mentioned Polls is all but dead except for these tournaments which are fairly demanding on the hosts at least and do well on the part of the responders for the most part. I don't see that as any less worthy of post count than video games or anime or whatever. It's the same sort of discussion.

 

And really no matter how much people argue the "does post count matter?" question the answer is and always has been yes it does. It's determined points and stars. And with the little recent economic revival plan that was meant to encourage further activity it's supposed to mean something even more so. Abandoning another section to die seems quite out of line with that intent.

 

Far be it from me how to tell anyone how to do their jobs. But these are my thoughts on the matter. And I'll not be posting further in this thread as I haven't yet seen argument's I've liked and don't expect to see any. Mine's probably no good either. Anyway, peace, doggy is out.

 

EDIT: I just felt the need to clarify that I'm not saying the mods are doing a bad job on the whole cuz I don't feel that way. The way this particular incident played out urked me is all. Right gone for real now.

[Flash Flyer - Sakura]

Clubs got shut down because things got really hectic in there; especially with the very large clubs.

You know how Black, Armz and DL got into the 37K and over range? Former two can be attributed to Powerforce and other things (which indeed provided a lot, among other things).

 

Granted, I was away when post count got shut off there, so can't say further.

 

---

That being said, CC does have a section of its own where Nai and I probably won't mind too much about activity; and that's Joke Cards.

However, that was done so we could have legitimate concepts get their own space in Experimental; without sharing them with bad designs.

 

Basically, it's there for members to post broken things without being subjected to the Advanced Clause and other general things; though it's certainly not intended to be a pure spamhole.

Keep in mind that like Miscellaneous; it will be closed should things get out of hand. So far, that's not been the case...yet.

 

(I check on it daily to make sure things are in line and deal with rulebreaks accordingly [basically flooding and behaviorial things]. A bit off-topic, but you get the point.)

 

---

@Andx: Just keep in mind that the "I don't want to mod stuff in Polls" mentality is basically Nai/Mugen's right now. I know Aix voted no on the poll as well, however I'll leave it for him to explain if that's what he wishes to do.

 

I've stated several times that I'm perfectly fine with returning post count to the area, if we can keep supervision on things + cut down on 2-3 word posts.

As noted, most of the posts in the area are good enough to merit post incrementation; why are we cutting it down because of everything else?

 

If things in Polls were getting spammy, then someone would've mentioned it earlier on. So far, there haven't been much; at least since I got promoted (given the reports and observations in the area).

This also serves as another reminder to use the report button if necessary.

 

(At the minimum, all we have to do is just make sure people don't spam the heck out of Polls [essentially flooding and stuff] + if they opt to vote in a post, just check that they write more than 2-3 words. That's not hard; and basically what I'm holding Casual Cards to; if I haven't explained that earlier.)

 

That being said, a lot of posts in General/other areas do not generate much discussion; yet are still receiving post count (given the context of the threads Cow helpfully linked).

In actuality, what separates them from Poll posts; in which case, things are actually fine in the latter.

 

----

Again, you are not required to manually post your vote in a thread. You can just make a choice in the provided poll above and be done with it.

Posting your vote also gives you some way to express any feelings you might have about the other choices and/or some backstory about yours, but as a whole, isn't required.

 

----

In essence, the following changes could be made if Polls gets its post count back:

• Limit the amount of Poll threads at a time; basically 4-6 per day (or at a time per tournament)
• Explanation posts should be a sentence or two long (which is about 5-7 words on average). You're all capable of doing it; considering that you write that much (if not more) in statuses and other areas. Or in short, no more "(choice) gmv" posts.

 

...I didn't expect to say a lot more things about this, but suppose it clears up any things that I didn't mention earlier; or rather, not explain clearly the first couple times...

[LordCowCowCowCowCowCowCowCow]

I'd say that about 15 words per vote could be the minimum requirement.

 

Let's see.....an example...random two Pokemon. Dialga vs Palkia

 

"I voted Dialga, because the typing is cool and I played Diamond but not Pearl."

 

I mean, it doesn't seem like much, but it is still something. It allows people to express an opinion, but makes sure it's not totally spam. Which, I mean, short replies like that are allowed in other sections as long as they're on topic.

 

And of course, obviously spammy things would be not allowed such as.

 

"I voted Dialga because I like it more and I want it to go through".

 

I suppose a rule saying that you have to put some actual reasoning into your posts if you decide to post, would be good. (Gotta figure out how to word..) Because we don't want a long word count necessary but also don't want people slipping something through the cracks like that.

 

 

Ha, I said I would try not to care about things yet here I am caring about Polls. XD

 

Edit: Also I'd like to say, I doubt that Mugen and Nai were saying it's JUST cause they don't want to have to moderate it, but I will admit I could see that feeling possibly being present.

[Flash Flyer - Sakura]

We're still looking into what to do about it, but yeah a minimum word count should be fine.

Again, you all can write 1-2 sentences (or about 12-15/20 words), so doing it won't be a problem.

 

Like I mentioned, we can implement a sort of mini-AC in there (essentially explain your reasoning a bit within 1-2 sentences, which as Cow demonstrated, can be done).

And it didn't take him more than 10-20 seconds to write that; presumably.

 

If you need to borrow some of the wording from there, go ahead but make sure you adjust it to Polls usage; not CC. That should be a given, though.

 

----

Might be good if evilfusion, Night and the other staff members have a say in this also.

I know evilfusion votes a good amount of the time in the GPT though; not sure if he's done your Fire Emblem one since I haven't read those.

[.Rai]

I've made both changes (post count is enabled, and a 15-word recommended minimum is in place). Feel free to discuss further though.

[Blake]

I dislike this change.

It's polls. You shouldn't need to introduce an 'advanced clause' telling people how to vocally vote. This isn't somewhere that needs the constructive criticism element. It's a place that is, by and large, meant for fun. You can argue the same for RPs/CC, but the difference is that those need constructive input.

This just discourages you from being silly when, let's face it, Polls is just Misc. for voting with a very slightly higher standard. I shouldn't need to write everything to say I voted for Gangrel when I can just post YourMotherWasAContest.jpg and laugh it up with people that get it.

also i'm pretty sure the nays had it

[Agro]

This is a bad idea becuz i need more space to spam.

I CANT CONTAIN THIS TO ONE SECTION DAMMIT