[MtG] Commander Rules update

[Trebuchet MS]

If your Commander would be put into your hand or library, you can instead put them back in the command zone like how you would do when it would go into the graveyard or exile.

 

In short, RIP all the tuck spells.

 

source: http://mtgcommander.net/Forum/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=17560&sid=99931e4c18206030b3d75332f1933489

[Rodrigo]

HOLY CRAP

 

This is huge. This changes pretty much all decks, as everyone runs at least one form of tucking. Oblation just became terrible as it's a huge card disavantage. Spin into Myth is now bad. Chaos Warp got much worse.

 

I'm both happy (YAY NO MORE WANDERER TUCKING) and sad (how will I deal with Prossh and Mimeoplasm now ;w;)

 

Damn.

[Trebuchet MS]

I would still keep Chaos Warp in my Grixis deck as a way of dealing with uncountered enchantments (the other being Nicol Bolas).

 

Will reconsider Hinder and Crumple though.

[Simping For Hina]

Fuck, man.

This ruins my plans of pissing people off with a mono u tuck.

[Poc]

I really don't agree with this ruling, tuck spells were a necessary evil in this format and this makes bounce spells a whole lot worse against s*** like Prossh or Mariath. They changed this ruling to try to take away power from unconditional tutor spells. This only makes them better now since you can just tutor up your combo and not have to hold onto them if your dude gets tucked.

[Flame Dragon]

Yea, agree this seems like a BAD change. It sucks having your commander put into your deck, but this just makes them a TON more powerful.

[bury the year]

I really don't agree with this ruling, tuck spells were a necessary evil in this format.

My thoughts exactly. Now commanders like Purphoros, Prossh, Derevi and Wanderer just got a lot more inevitable in terms of their victory. I can agree with the tuck rule in French, because the meta's a lot more focused on resource denial and stax to counteract commanders, but this I feel is going to go up in flames in multiplayer.

And frankly, the points they use to justify this are bullsh!t. I quote:
 

1) We want to engender as positive an experience as we can for players. Nothing runs the feel-bads worse than having your commander unavailable to you for the whole game.

2) The presence of tuck encourages players to play more tutors so that in case their commander gets sent to the library, they can get it back—exactly the opposite of what we want (namely, discouraging the over-representation of tutors).

3) While we are keenly aware that tuck is a great weapon against problematic commanders, the tools to do so are available only in blue and white, potentially forcing players into feeling like they need to play those colors in order to survive. We prefer as diverse a field as possible.

4) It clears up some corner case rules awkwardness, mostly dealing with knowing the commander’s locationin the library (since highly unlikely to actually end up there).

1) So what, are you gonna ban counterspells and MLD now because they're "feel bad" too? People have different definitions of the term: it shouldn't be something the rules committee is policing

2) Poc covered this fault in logic already. Tutors become even more powerful now that you don't have to hold them to get your commander back.

3) So the only tools now to shut down commanders are either a: Nevermore/Nullstone Gargoyle, b: repeatable countermagic (a la Declaration of Naught) or c: Darksteel Mutation-esque enchantments. Which - guess what? - are primarily in white and blue. The only thing that was actually accomplished was neutering red by removing the utility of Chaos Warp.

4) It's called "use the same colored sleeves for all 100 cards." >_>

[Flame Dragon]

My thoughts exactly. Now commanders like Purphoros, Prossh, Derevi and Wanderer just got a lot more inevitable in terms of their victory. I can agree with the tuck rule in French, because the meta's a lot more focused on resource denial and stax to counteract commanders, but this I feel is going to go up in flames in multiplayer.

And frankly, the points they use to justify this are bullsh!t. I quote:
 

1) So what, are you gonna ban counterspells and MLD now because they're "feel bad" too? People have different definitions of the term: it shouldn't be something the rules committee is policing

2) Poc covered this fault in logic already. Tutors become even more powerful now that you don't have to hold them to get your commander back.

3) So the only tools now to shut down commanders are either a: Nevermore, b: repeatable countermagic (a la Declaration of Naught) or c: Darksteel Mutation-esque enchantments. Which - guess what? - are primarily in white and blue. The only thing that was actually accomplished was neutering red by removing the utility of Chaos Warp.

4) It's called "use the same colored sleeves for all 100 cards." >_>

I think of all the points 2 and 4 are just DUMB. People don't play tutors to get back their commander. They play them because they are just really powerful when your deck is 100 singleton. And I use different sleeves for my commanders, but if they get put in my deck I just swap a sleeve with another card and switch back at the end of the game.

[Gokai-Red]

Not to mention that Bouncing Commanders in most of the cases is like the worst Thingy you can ever do...

 

Anyways...So Now My Friends Prossh is more deadly than ever...(Someday they'll realize their mistake and ban it once and for all..just not yet), and his Sharuum will not only be able to keep aramgedding/Cataclysm us every now and then, Now we can't even tuck Sharuum to stop it til he gets a tutor...GOOD

[Flame Dragon]

Not to mention that Bouncing Commanders in most of the cases is like the worst Thingy you can ever do...
 
Anyways...So Now My Friends Prossh is more deadly than ever...(Someday they'll realize their mistake and ban it once and for all..just not yet), and his Sharuum will not only be able to keep aramgedding/Cataclysm us every now and then, Now we can't even tuck Sharuum to stop it til he gets a tutor...GOOD

I wonder what the odds of them banning a pro-con commander even is? My friend has a Prossh deck and it is EASILY his most powerful. Personally, I'd rather they just got rid of commander damage. Having a second life to keep track of is annoying and the only reason I can think of having it is to deal with infinite life, but like, that is no worse than most the other really stupid things you can do in the format. Other than that it lets decks like Prossh exist, but is that really worth it?

[bury the year]

I wonder what the odds of them banning a pro-con commander even is? My friend has a Prossh deck and it is EASILY his most powerful. Personally, I'd rather they just got rid of commander damage. Having a second life to keep track of is annoying and the only reason I can think of having it is to deal with infinite life, but like, that is no worse than most the other really stupid things you can do in the format. Other than that it lets decks like Prossh exist, but is that really worth it?

I wouldn't be surprised if Derevi sees a ban in the next few months. Being unable to tuck her makes it nigh-impossible to deal with her. Plus, now Derevi pilots get two more Birthing Pod-lite effects in the form of Proteus Staff and Jalira. o_o;;

...now I'm tempted to build Derevi!Pod to piss my playgroup off. :'D

EDIT: I sincerely hope they don't ban commander damage. That kills voltron entirely and will piss off way many more people than this change would ever hope to.

[Flame Dragon]

I wouldn't be surprised if Derevi sees a ban in the next few months. Being unable to tuck her makes it nigh-impossible to deal with her. Plus, now Derevi pilots get two more Birthing Pod-lite effects in the form of Proteus Staff and Jalira. o_o;;

...now I'm tempted to build Derevi!Pod to piss my playgroup off. :'D

EDIT: I sincerely hope they don't ban commander damage. That kills voltron entirely and will piss off way many more people than this change would ever hope to.

See, I'm lucky and my play group doesn't really do very broken things. The interaction with Proteus Staff and Derevi does seem pretty busted based on what I can imagine that deck playing.

I saw BDM bring it up on twitter when people were talking about this rule change under the "feel bad" logic they used to get rid of tucking. "The #CMDR rule change I want to see is the elimination of Commander damage. It leads to feel bad games. No Commander kill is cool/fun."

Personally I feel WAY worse when I lose to commander damage than when I have my commander tucked. Though that might be because I play tons tutors and most my decks don't NEED their command.

[Poc]

Commander damage has to stay, if they get rid of it I'm dropping this format all together. When people generate infinite life the only way to deal with it is by decking them, infect or commander damage. Infect and decking are way too unreliable, and narrow answers to something any deck could easily do.

[Flame Dragon]

Commander damage has to stay, if they get rid of it I'm dropping this format all together. When people generate infinite life the only way to deal with it is by decking them, infect or commander damage. Infect and decking are way too unreliable, and narrow answers to something any deck could easily do.

See, I feel like infinite life isn't any worse than the other over powered nonsense you can do in the format. Infinite mana, which in turn leads to infinite turns or damage are just as stupid and they don't have the safety valve infinite life has yet no one has really said they need a way to keep that from happening. Hell, infinite damage beats a player thats gained infinite life, no matter how much life they have, and infinite turns can in theory beat it since infinite life isn't actually infinite since your life has to be some number. So yea, while I get where this is coming from, I don't think it makes a ton of sense is the larger context of the format.

[Trebuchet MS]

If your Commander deck shuts down from your commander getting tucked, either you need to branch out and create other possible wincons for the deck or learn to play around possible tuck sources.

[CLG Klavier]

If your Commander deck shuts down from your commander getting tucked, either you need to branch out and create other possible wincons for the deck or learn to play around possible tuck sources.

If you read the thread, you'd see no one complains on that.

Only that now, Prossh/Wanderer/Kaalia/Derevi are LITERALLY UNSTOPPABPE.

[Simping For Hina]

I want to play Narset even more now. 

[Rodrigo]

I want to play Narset even more now. 

 

Damn, I almost forgot about Narset.

 

This rule is stupid.

[bury the year]

I want to play Narset even more now.

Narset and Jhoira are the only two commanders that have made me legit rage quit a game. They're not fun. At all.

(Narset had played into five extra turn spells while Jhoira dropped an Obliterate turn 3 into a Kings and Assasins variant or whatever people call it, btw.)

[Spinny]

Makes "skullbriar, the walking grave" a bit better.

[Simping For Hina]

Magic isn't about you having fun. It is about me having fun while preventing you from doing so.

[Rodrigo]

Magic isn't about you having fun. It is about me having fun while preventing you from doing so.

 

>tfw I realize this is true when I play Maelstrom Wanderer

 

[Cirrus]

Well, I can't complain. I play Sharuum...

 

Rules change feels stupid though.

[bury the year]

Back to talking about the banlist. Someone on Reddit posted three criteria which were what he saw as making a commander "abusable" under the new no-tuck rule, and thus should ban them:

• Commanders that completely dodge the general tax (Derevi)
• Commanders that generate advantage on cast, so that removal or countermagic doesn't help (Prossh, MW)
• Tier 1 commanders that protect themselves, and previously were most vulnerable on the stack (Zur, Narset, Purphoros)

With that, the (hypothetical) additions to the banlist are as follows:

Derevi, Empyrial Tactician
Maelstrom Wanderer
Narset, Enlightened Master
Purphoros, God of the Forge
Prossh, Skyraider of Kher
Zur the Enchanter

Thoughts? I think it's a pretty reasonable list, although I don't entirely think Zur belongs on it.

[Rodrigo]

It's that, or returning the tuck rule altogether.

 

And that sounds much better IMO. Banning SIX generals at once is sure to make a lot of people mad. And all of those are very popular legends.