Anime vs. Western Cartoons

[Arctic55]

Like I said before, I was bored and was curious what people's thoughts on the subject were (I was NOT thinking "How can I troll people?").  From what I can tell, it is basicly a matter of tastes rather than a matter of reason.

[Flash Flyer - Sakura]

@Blaze: Where in that statement did I imply only the USA and Canada?

It's pretty clear that when I said "western" countries, that included you guys in Britain and certainly the Latin American countries, but they got their own stuff.

 

Seriously guys, try to keep things civil here.

 

 

If things start getting out of hand, things will be locked and Roxas (or one of the other mods) will start warning people.

So far, not yet.

[Agro]

> someone mentions SAO
WATCH BETTER SHIT 8'D

Anyway, just listing good recent western animated series off the top of my head...
Rick and Morty
Axe Cop
Legend of Korra
Bob's Burgers
South Park still somehow
Young Justice
Adventure Time
Archer
Venture Brothers
Gravity Falls
Over the Garden Wall
Bee and Puppycat
BRAVEST WARRIORS

There's definitely more than a few Marvel and DC series I'm forgetting.

And if you reach further you get stuff like Avatar & The Boondocks, so like, yeah idk what you're talking about. It just sounds like you don't watch anything.
 

It's just too bad that 4Kids / some parenting groups in the US decided to "westernize" some anime and remove any Japanese content/references to make it appeal to the US and other western countries. Don't get me started on that rice ball incident or various other things.

I too think it's too bad that anime gained a foothold in the US and became as popular and as culturally significant in the Western world as it did.

Wait, no I don't. That's the exact opposite of what I think.

[Fusion X. Denver]

Nah, I prefer anime then.

 

But really, anime is cartoons. Fundamentally there is absolutely no difference between anime and western cartoons, except from the country of origin. It's just something that's always pissed me off, how people go to such lengths to separate the two, or try to 'make anime' when its all the same thing. Content-wise, sure they're different, but as a medium, they're equivalent.

It's not like you're wrong, but anime and western cartoons are different stylistically and have different tropes, which arguably comprise the fundamentals. That's why I'd personally classify anime and cartoons as different beasts, but both have their merits.

 

It's up to taste. The cool thing about animated shows in general is that there's infinite amounts of content and different genres to be found, whether in the East or West. Anime can be about anything from a serial killer to a totallyaveragehighschoolboy, cartoons can focus on talking dogs or political satire, and so on. So whichever you may prefer, you'll find plenty of different stuff to watch.

 

As long as a show can tell me a good story or get me to love its characters, I'll watch it.

[.Rooster]

@Blaze: Where in that statement did I imply only the USA and Canada?

It's pretty clear that when I said "western" countries, that included you guys in Britain and certainly the Latin American countries, but they got their own stuff.

 

Seriously guys, try to keep things civil here.

 

 

If things start getting out of hand, things will be locked and Roxas (or one of the other mods) will start warning people.

So far, not yet.

 

It wasn't aimed at you. Sorry.

 

Luckily this forum isn't full of elitist s*** like the MyAnimeList forum and certain others.

[Fusion X. Denver]

It wasn't aimed at you. Sorry.

 

Luckily this forum isn't full of elitist s*** like the MyAnimeList forum and certain others.

That's what puts me off from Anime Planet's forum. The guys there are dicks.

 

I'll give it to YCM that we're typically civilized when it comes to differing opinions on anime, thankfully.

[Tentacruel]

> someone mentions SAO
WATCH BETTER SHIT 8'D

Anyway, just listing good recent western animated series off the top of my head...
Rick and Morty
Axe Cop
Legend of Korra
Bob's Burgers
South Park still somehow
Young Justice
Adventure Time
Archer
Venture Brothers
Gravity Falls
Over the Garden Wall
Bee and Puppycat
BRAVEST WARRIORS

 

Young Justice is lame.  fite me agro

 

 

I too think it's too bad that anime gained a foothold in the US and became as popular and as culturally significant in the Western world as it did.

Wait, no I don't. That's the exact opposite of what I think.

I'd wager that the lack of riceballs and reading in 4kids cartoons was probably irrelevant in the popularity of those cartoons. 

[.Rooster]

That's what puts me off from Anime Planet's forum. The guys there are dicks.

 

I'll give it to YCM that we're typically civilized when it comes to differing opinions on anime, thankfully.

 

Only problem is, without these elitists, the arguments lose all the fun.

[Agro]

Young Justice is lame.  fite me agro

I was stating shows that people generally like. If it was about personal preference, I would have just left it at BRAVEST WARRIORS YEAAAAAAAAAAAAA *ahem*

I'd wager that the lack of riceballs and reading in 4kids cartoons was probably irrelevant in the popularity of those cartoons.

I'd also wager riceballs and reading weren't the only changes they made to appeal to a western audience.

The show is a very different experience in Japanese. But the small changes are still part of it.

[LordCowCowCowCowCowCowCowCow]

I'd also wager riceballs and reading weren't the only changes they made to appeal to a western audience.

The show is a very different experience in Japanese. But the small changes are still part of it.

Can I join in? :D

 

I too would like to wager that the riceballs and reading were the main things Sakura was talking about.

The small changes like that seem a bit silly, and tends to make it have less quality from what I've seen.

[J-Max]

American Animation used to be good when they took risks and it was Crazy. Ren and Stimpy is a great example of this. Also of course Classics like TMNT, Thundercats and He-Man.

 

Japanese Anime is better to me though due to the fact I find it to be much better animated (Akira still looks great even today) and its a interesting way for me to learn Japanese as well.

[Arctic55]

Many many people thought the Legend of Korra was bad... I personally half enjoyed, half forced myself to watch it.  Every time I was going to quit, I forced myself to watch for the sake of "The Last Airbender".

[Agro]

American Animation used to be good when they took risks and it was Crazy. Ren and Stimpy is a great example of this. Also of course Classics like TMNT, Thundercats and He-Man.

The idea that american animation doesn't take risks or is crazy sounds rather silly to me... I mean just consider the strides taken in CGI animation over the past two decades. I'd even argue that quite a few shows– a lot of them on Fox's animation block and Adult Swim– take as much risk as anything that ever used to be done. It's not like TMNT, Thundercats and He-Man were even THAT risky either. Even Disney, a company that has refused to do anything remotely interesting in the past 70 years outside of purchasing other companies, actually made something innovative in Paperman.

Japanese Anime is better to me though due to the fact I find it to be much better animated (Akira still looks great even today)

I meant if we want to compare high budget 80's animation, is Akira really THAT much better animated than The Little Mermaid, The Fox and the Hound, Who Framed Roger Rabbit, The Great Mouse Detective, The Brave Little Toaster, or a personal favorite, The Black Cauldron?

[Agro]

Can I join in? :D

 

I too would like to wager that the riceballs and reading were the main things Sakura was talking about.

The small changes like that seem a bit silly, and tends to make it have less quality from what I've seen.

"quality" is subjective and I doubt the renaming of one thing to something else that an American child might understand lowers it, while at the same time acting effectively to make viewers relate to the story world by mentioning something they certainly KNOW.

 

EDIT: and i forgot it doesn't just add on to the last post when you want it to

[LordCowCowCowCowCowCowCowCow]

"quality" is subjective and I doubt the renaming of one thing to something else that an American child might understand lowers it, while at the same time acting effectively to make viewers relate to the story world by mentioning something they certainly KNOW.

 

EDIT: and i forgot it doesn't just add on to the last post when you want it to

Oh I understand that for sure. However it's also in a way a silly arguement. Say for instance...replacing a rice ball with a sandwich, no real point. And the animation looks...weird, because the shape is wrong. Stuff like that seems pointless.
Especially as, think about it. Specifically Pokemon is a world with strange super-power creatures that speak using their names. If having a food item be different than what you're used to makes it hard to relate, compared to that, it's a little odd.

[Toffee.]

I lot of this topic made me LOL. Mostly on OP's part.

Oh I understand that for sure. However it's also in a way a silly arguement. Say for instance...replacing a rice ball with a sandwich, no real point. And the animation looks...weird, because the shape is wrong. Stuff like that seems pointless.
Especially as, think about it. Specifically Pokemon is a world with strange super-power creatures that speak using their names. If having a food item be different than what you're used to makes it hard to relate, compared to that, it's a little odd.

No, see, that's just a case of 'American Box Art Kirby'
Stuff gets edited to be more serious/etc for whatever reason.

[Thar]

I like the art style of anime. Western cartoons have their own charm and quirkiness, but anime just clicks with me.

[J-Max]

The idea that american animation doesn't take risks or is crazy sounds rather silly to me... I mean just consider the strides taken in CGI animation over the past two decades. I'd even argue that quite a few shows– a lot of them on Fox's animation block and Adult Swim– take as much risk as anything that ever used to be done. It's not like TMNT, Thundercats and He-Man were even THAT risky either. Even Disney, a company that has refused to do anything remotely interesting in the past 70 years outside of purchasing other companies, actually made something innovative in Paperman.

I meant if we want to compare high budget 80's animation, is Akira really THAT much better animated than The Little Mermaid, The Fox and the Hound, Who Framed Roger Rabbit, The Great Mouse Detective, The Brave Little Toaster, or a personal favorite, The Black Cauldron?

That's just it though, CGI is old hat now. At least they tried back in the day with Classic Animation. Take a look at some of the shows revived recently. All CGI.... But I do agree with you about Disney. One of my favorites Aristocats has some gorgeous animation for the time.

 

At least Japan is sticking to more Traditional Animation even though half the time its big eyed Moe Girls(Nothing wrong with that but just saying lol)

[Agro]

That's just it though, CGI is old hat now. At least they tried back in the day with Classic Animation. Take a look at some of the shows revived recently.

 

At least Japan is sticking to more Traditional Animation even though half the time its big eyed Moe Girls(Nothing wrong with that but just saying lol)

But that ignores all the actual 2D animated series and short & feature films that have been released over the past few years.

 

Definitely implore you to look up Song of the Sea, at the very least.

[.Rooster]

American Animation used to be good when they took risks and it was Crazy. Ren and Stimpy is a great example of this. Also of course Classics like TMNT, Thundercats and He-Man.

 

Japanese Anime is better to me though due to the fact I find it to be much better animated (Akira still looks great even today) and its a interesting way for me to learn Japanese as well.

 

That's a bit of a generalization. And we are talking about western animation and anime. As well as that, there are loads and loads of shit-quality japanese animation.

 

Oh, and there are plenty of american cartoons with godsent animation that would rival that of the best japanese animation quality.

 

I hope I didn't offend you.

[BANZAI!!!!]

So, what does this mean for products like that new anime-esque powerpuff girls (which i can't remember the name of) or panty and stocking, where one creative team is trying to mimic the style of the other side of the pacific ocean with (generally) good results?

 

That being said, anyone who knows me well enough knows that A: I prefer anime to western cartoons and B: i'm very grumpy and particular about my anime, and that I think most of what the industry nowadays puts out is trash. This being stated, In general i find western animation is more able to break its own mold and try something new/different/good from time to time, with shows like exo-squad, batman TAS, adventure time, and gargoyles being excellent examples of western children's cartoons that are not only great programs, but are also wildly original (or at least very well done, thoughtful examples of their particular flavor of genre writing). Anime, on the other hand, is much less willing to produce something similar in favor of marketing to the same demographics/fanbases (which sometimes produces quality work, like a lot of reconstructionist super robot shows such as Gurren Lagann and shin mazinger), and often times fails to conclude or even deliver a decent product.

 

I think, the matter of the viewer's general preference aside, western cartoons are treated with much less gravity and reverence than anime, which works in the favor of those shows because it allows creators much more latitude and creative freedom to try new concepts and ideas without so much backlash, whereas anime has a very defined, more rigid culture surrounding its production, distribution and consumption that constantly demands the same type of product over and over again, which stifles creativity and leads to the popularity of quite frankly awful works like SAO because the audience either expects such or doesn't know any better.

[.Rooster]

The thing is, Western animation is animation, while anime is animation. They don't follow any rules, so they do not do anything particular.

 

Thoughts?

[BANZAI!!!!]

The thing is, Western animation is animation, while anime is animation. They don't follow any rules, so they do not do anything particular.

 

Thoughts?

Thing is, both genres of animation have both long traditions and sets of tropes that most of the works generally follow, whether it be art style, plot structure, or the tropes/genres involved, so this statement is largely untrue.

[.Rooster]

Thing is, both genres of animation have both long traditions and sets of tropes that most of the works generally follow, whether it be art style, plot structure, or the tropes/genres involved, so this statement is largely untrue.

 

It depends on how you see it, I guess. Do animators really always have to follow a bunch of tropes set out for them if the animator was animating his own way? Animation could just be two animated spinning balls. 

 

And how are they genres if the only actual way they are genres is the fact that the animation comes from certain countries? If that is true, I guess there could be Asian animation instead of anime as well as African animation, or Australian animation as genres, as well as animation from South America.

They would all be genres, but few talk about those 'genres'.

 

Anime could be anything animated, it is just that as you stated, most people, not all, will only buy something animated from Japan if it follows their set of tropes. Not all. Same with western animation, as you said.

[BANZAI!!!!]

It depends on how you see it, I guess. Do animators really always have to follow a bunch of tropes set out for them if the animator was animating his own way? Animation could just be two animated spinning balls.

Uhh, yes, animators do. If you're an animator/artist working for an animation studio that's producing a series, you are contractually obligated to draw exactly what they tell you to draw. That's why animation models and control art exist: so that teams of different artists can draw the same things the same way and make the show appear as a more unified whole. Hence, an animator is always adhering to whatever tropes the product he or she is working on does by drawing art that depicts them.

 

 

And how are they genres if the only actual way they are genres is the fact that the animation comes from certain countries? If that is true, I guess there could be Asian animation instead of anime as well as African animation, or Australian animation as genres, as well as animation from South America.

They would all be genres, but few talk about those 'genres'.

Also no. In this topic we're quite clearly talking about 2 genres of animation: Western children's cartoons, which are usually humorous works with more simplified plot structure, shorter running time (often 15 minutes or less an episode with two or more episodes per time slot as opposed to the 30-45 minutes with 1 episode per time slot more traditional western programming runs), and often an emphasis on surrealism or more generally the fanciful in their art design, and Anime: which is a macrogenre of animation from Japan that follows a single, unified art style that takes after the art in manga (hence the term manga-style) with various subgenres based upon which demographic the individual product is marketing to (shonen: young boys, Shoujou: young girls, Seinin: adult males etc) that covers a wide array of storytelling genres yet at the same time is more or less consistently consumed by similar demographics (Ie: anime fans) and has a massive consumer culture ingrained within its production, marketing, and consumption and has a set of tropes that are shared across multiple genres of work within it. When you say "Anime" or "western cartoon" you're referring to a specific genre of programming as opposed to some abstract notion of nationality.

 

 

Anime could be anything animated, it is just that as you stated, most people, not all, will only buy something animated from Japan if it follows their set of tropes. Not all. Same with western animation, as you said.

Again, anime is anime, western cartoons are western cartoons. The topic is about preference for one or the other, and why.