Slinky Posted January 26, 2015 Report Share Posted January 26, 2015 I wasn't calling the card broken. I was more referring to your argument being inherently flawed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CLG Klavier Posted January 26, 2015 Report Share Posted January 26, 2015 I wasn't calling the card broken. Then where's the problem? :3 EDIT: Oh, my point about Mask Change II's ACTUAL card disadvantage. Sure, Dark Law provides a lot of virtual one in exchange, I give you that. But that doesn't change the fact that if you DO get countered out and don't get use of your Dark Law, you are PHYSICALLY and VIRTUALLY behind. And THAT was my point: it's a high-risk, high-reward play. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Slinky Posted January 26, 2015 Report Share Posted January 26, 2015 Then where's the problem? :3 Your presentation. The entire point of this "argument" was you making the "-2" look like this really bad thing, when it really isn't. :/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CLG Klavier Posted January 26, 2015 Report Share Posted January 26, 2015 I editeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Slinky Posted January 26, 2015 Report Share Posted January 26, 2015 Then where's the problem? :3 EDIT: Oh, my point about Mask Change II's ACTUAL card disadvantage. Sure, Dark Law provides a lot of virtual one in exchange, I give you that. But that doesn't change the fact that if you DO get countered out and don't get use of your Dark Law, you are PHYSICALLY and VIRTUALLY behind. And THAT was my point: it's a high-risk, high-reward play. Same thing could be said about anything. Chain Vanity's to Shaddoll Fusion and you are both physically and "virtually" behind. So the point doesn't really work. This also applies to every Nekroz deck in existence. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CLG Klavier Posted January 26, 2015 Report Share Posted January 26, 2015 If it can be said about anything... ...means it's true... ...means most of the decks aren't as broken as people make them out to be and they're just whiny? OH SORRY COUNTERS DON'T JUSTIFY BROKENESS So means most decks CAN be outplayed, even the biggest offenders like Nekroz, but people would rather whine than exploit the weaknesses. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Slinky Posted January 26, 2015 Report Share Posted January 26, 2015 If it can be said about anything... ...means it's true... ...means most of the decks aren't as broken as people make them out to be and they're just whiny? OH SORRY COUNTERS DON'T JUSTIFY BROKENESS So means most decks CAN be outplayed, even the biggest offenders like Nekroz, but people would rather whine than exploit the weaknesses. Keep in mind, people play this irl too. Most people are not going to fork out 90-100 for 3 Vanity's just so they can counter something. They can't exploit the weakness because of money issues, so they whine. Its perfectly logical. This argument of course doesn't hold up over the internet, when things like DN being 100% free, but irl? Yeah.. the argument stands. Noobs always complain, that's a given. But when even the /good/ players start complaining, you KNOW there is a problem. Especially since the actual good players don't complain all that often. They may vent rage a lot, but they won't complain. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CLG Klavier Posted January 26, 2015 Report Share Posted January 26, 2015 Keep in mind, people play this irl too. Most people are not going to fork out 90-100 for 3 Vanity's just so they can counter something. They can't exploit the weakness because of money issues, so they whine. Its perfectly logical. This argument of course doesn't hold up over the internet, when things like DN being 100% free, but irl? Yeah.. the argument stands. Noobs always complain, that's a given. But when even the /good/ players start complaining, you KNOW there is a problem. Especially since the actual good players don't complain all that often. They may vent rage a lot, but they won't complain. 95% of people here play on DN, so the IRL point is moot in THIS discussion. Otherwise yeah, you're kinda right. I have yet to see a good player complain. Good players NEVER complain. They prepare. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
evilfusion Posted January 26, 2015 Report Share Posted January 26, 2015 Take care to remain civil. It's not a problem yet, so this is just a friendly reminder. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CLG Klavier Posted January 26, 2015 Report Share Posted January 26, 2015 Take care to remain civil. It's not a problem yet, so this is just a friendly reminder. Hey, it didn't evolve into a flame war yet and the discussion pretty much ended, so it's still a good result, don't you think? :P Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Slinky Posted January 26, 2015 Report Share Posted January 26, 2015 Hey, it didn't evolve into a flame war yet and the discussion pretty much ended, so it's still a good result, don't you think? :P "Yet" It was never going to evolve into a flame war. I would never flame someone on a forum where it means nothing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Expelsword Posted January 26, 2015 Report Share Posted January 26, 2015 ITT: People look only at the numbers, and not what numbers represent. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sleepy Posted January 26, 2015 Report Share Posted January 26, 2015 The card is really obnoxious in HERO decks. I've played against a few on YGOPro. When your deck is composed of revival themes like Zombies and plenty of searching effects. When HEROes can make it without going minus immediately after going first. When they sit on tons of backrow. It is not pretty. Yes, staples exist, and we have Torrential, Snatch Steal, Book of Moon, 2x Dark Hole, Raigeki, Mind Control, Enemy Controller, Warning, Bottomless, Emptiness, etc. Though realistically, most people don't dedicate all their S/T slots to staples, and staples are the cards you need to draw into. That makes them not completely reliable as a consistent response to throw in on an argument. Really, if your archetype/theme cannot deal with it without the help of staples, its chances against it are no better than any other deck out there in casual tiers. I don't know how much of an impact this card has or will have, I'll just say the idea behind it is awful. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dementuo Posted January 26, 2015 Report Share Posted January 26, 2015 Y'all are both terrible. Shadow Mist will be searching you another HERO for recovery in case Dark Law gets stopped 99% of the time anyways, so there is no risk to it. If anything, you bait an out from the opponent. If one Mask Change is your only play, you've either got plenty of backrow or you're losing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Toffee. Posted January 26, 2015 Report Share Posted January 26, 2015 If you, honestly, are using Mask Change on the the Mist you just Special Summoned... Your doing it wrong. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
UltimateIRS Posted January 27, 2015 Report Share Posted January 27, 2015 If you, honestly, are using Mask Change on the the Mist you just Special Summoned... Your doing it wrong. Mask Change is used on the opponent's turn immediately after the turn one Special Summons Shadow Mist. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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