Moderation

[Blake]

Much of the mod team isn't pulling their weight, either due to inactivity due to RL, doing a bad job, or not doing a job at all. Some of them were not even trying to pull their weight when I was a mod, only throwing their hat into the ring when they wanted to make a post that made their opinion seem important. They didn't change the site, they didn't add anything to it, all they did was take up a 'slot' that meant "oh we have the numbers we don't need more mods or ever need to consider it", which led to dragging of feet when electing/changing moderators. Then there are newer moderators who simply don't pull their weight.

 

Please don't say I'm just 'hounding', as that's just an admission they were likely never fit in the first place.

 

So let's go over the mod team at present:

 

.Rai

Aix

evilfusion

Flame Dragon

Komeiji Koishi

Legend Zero

Mugendramon

Night

Phantom Roxas

Sakura Haruno

Zextra

 

.Rai and Komeiji Koishi/Ain are still fairly new moderators. I won't talk about them (positively OR negatively) due to the fact that they're still fledglings, and should be given time to show their stuff. Damage Control would be better for this, but I digress.

 

Aix does his job fairly well, from what I've seen/heard. I know some people aren't incredibly please, or weren't in the past, but there's no major complaints, to my knowledge.

 

evilfusion is... there. He does his job, though he doesn't really stand out. He's made some poor choices, but any mod's done that. No reason to make a case about cleaning up this particular mod.

 

Night is the big boss. He's the best moderator on the site, keeping a good rapport with the members and a generally level head in making decisions. Really no complaints here.

 

LZ is inactive. He could easily be removed, but he has a lot of sway as a moderator and a member. Inactivity, on its own, is not a surefire reason to remove anyone. Same for Mugendramon and Zextra, but the latter has a specific active section that needs constant attention. All three are fine moderators when they're around, but they're not active and they do take up those 'slots' that create a lack of desire to make a move when it comes to demoting/promoting new moderators, if/when the time comes. Definitely not saying "remove now", but also not saying keep them forever if they remain unchanged. I believe Mugendramon has been the least absent, but Zextra might come on privately, so IDK.

 

Now... The three poor moderators.

 

First and foremost is Sakura Haruno. The mods say that my points towards this particular mod are to be discounted because I 'hound' them... But I've only gone after him when he's fucked up (fairly commonly) and after giving him time to try to improve. In fact... Sakura (and Saber) were elected in late June/early July. I never even mentioned anything about him as a moderator until the whole thing with Striker back in September. Even then, I gave him credit as a general moderator as opposed to a CC moderator, where he really does not have the qualifications to lead CC. He's just a cop (IE: What I pitched Damage Control as).

 

But since then, he's just gotten worse. He makes, as evilfusion put it, tactless statements that don't represent the mod team. Night has called him Sakurabot 5000 due to being just a robo-cop. He permabanned someone over a joke without even researching it in the least or taking who said it into account. He, apparently, made a CC-exclusive mod forum while throwing his fellow moderators under the bus when a complaint was raised.

 

A robot is not a leader, and there are surely better cops than one that makes statements and actions that reflect badly on both himself and the mod team. His snowballing string of poor statements and actions will only get worse with time. This isn't 'hounding', as I did not goad him into doing any of these things. Am I adamant that he was a poor choice? Yes. Was I at the time he was elected? I wasn't fond of it, but I held my tongue. That doesn't mean I'm 'hounding' him in any way. I made similar statements about Yin in the past, before she resigned, but those held less traction for the simple fat that she was more liked by the community. Not one of the ex-CC mod team members are happy to see Sakura as a moderator of CC, and I've not seen one person who is truly fond of Sakura as a moderator in general. So between low approval rating, inability to interact with the member base , constant screw-ups, and a lack of any improvement given to the site by this moderator... why is he still a moderator?

 

Then we have Flame Dragon and Phantom Roxas. These two are nothing but relics of the past that hold on to their power but don't use it. Yeah, they do the occasional job of a Damage Control account... but that's it. Even in my day (so, 1.5 years ago at the latest) they filed like 1-2 reports a month each and then moved on with life. They didn't even do anything special or necessarily correct, either. FD repeatedly made moves in RC that went against what Koko and I were doing/the rules of the section, for example. Then there's the fact that a couple of the mods on the team with them says they've done even less than that since I was demoted. Hell, according to JoshIcy, Roxas was meant as a temporary promotion anyways, much like Alfred. We see where that went.

 

And they're not very in touch, in my experience. They lazily watch over the site as a whole and don't try to improve it... and their posts in mod decisions, from experience + newer info fed to me, are just.... there. They don't have a lot of input, they're just making sure their opinion is there. 

 

So if they do nothing of note, don't have sway as moderators, and just sit around and act like normal members that can occasionally remove a spambbot with their mod power... what do they add that potential fresh blood doesn't? Even then, they don't actually pull their weight as cops, from what I saw in the past/have been told, so why are they there at all? It's just ancient board members sticking around just because that's how it's always been, not because it's better for the site. They just take up those 'slots' that make electing new mods take up more time than it should, with opinions that are mostly archaic, even when I was a moderator.

 

For all three of these moderators, they are beat cops at best. And while beat cops can be well and good, they're not what the site needs. We have moderators who are on nearly all the time excluding these three/the inactive three, and there are no issues. If we need cops, we can use Damage Control, not leave people with complete power when they're wont to misuse it/not use it at all. Or we can skip getting beat cops and get straight to finding leaders to improve the site, who can also handle the beat. Beat Mods aren't needed, Leader Mods are.

 

I also want to make a case that none of this is about the mods' characters. This is only about them as moderators. At least one of the last three has a truly positive effect on the community, just not as a moderator, but as an average member. There comes a point when your time as a leader of the site is up, and you should pass the torch on to those who follow, so that they can improve the site where you stopped doing so/never did so.

 

Maybe the other mods have cases for their removal, as well- Who knows? Feel free to say so, if you feel so, I'm just making the cases I see/have seen for a while. I would have preferred if someone else made this post, but someone had to step up to the plate.

 

Don't see any issue with this as a general complaint/praise threads for the mods, either, though that wouldn't belong in C&S, unless it was used in the form of a debate for what mods add to the site..

[Toffee.]

To be fair, without Flame Dragon around, the Smash Bros topic would erupt into total anarchy.

[Spinny]

Much of the mod team isn't pulling their weight, either due to inactivity due to RL, doing a bad job, or not doing a job at all. Some of them were not even trying to pull their weight when I was a mod, only throwing their hat into the ring when they wanted to make a post that made their opinion seem important. They didn't change the site, they didn't add anything to it, all they did was take up a 'slot' that meant "oh we have the numbers we don't need more mods or ever need to consider it", which led to dragging of feet when electing/changing moderators. Then there are newer moderators who simply don't pull their weight.
 
Please don't say I'm just 'hounding', as that's just an admission they were likely never fit in the first place.
 
So let's go over the mod team at present:
 
.Rai
Aix
evilfusion
Flame Dragon
Komeiji Koishi
Legend Zero
Mugendramon
Night
Phantom Roxas
Sakura Haruno
Zextra
 
.Rai and Komeiji Koishi/Ain are still fairly new moderators. I won't talk about them (positively OR negatively) due to the fact that they're still fledglings, and should be given time to show their stuff. Damage Control would be better for this, but I digress.
 
Aix does his job fairly well, from what I've seen/heard. I know some people aren't incredibly please, or weren't in the past, but there's no major complaints, to my knowledge.
 
evilfusion is... there. He does his job, though he doesn't really stand out. He's made some poor choices, but any mod's done that. No reason to make a case about cleaning up this particular mod.
 
Night is the big boss. He's the best moderator on the site, keeping a good rapport with the members and a generally level head in making decisions. Really no complaints here.
 
LZ is inactive. He could easily be removed, but he has a lot of sway as a moderator and a member. Inactivity, on its own, is not a surefire reason to remove anyone. Same for Mugendramon and Zextra, but the latter has a specific active section that needs constant attention. All three are fine moderators when they're around, but they're not active and they do take up those 'slots' that create a lack of desire to make a move when it comes to demoting/promoting new moderators, if/when the time comes. Definitely not saying "remove now", but also not saying keep them forever if they remain unchanged. I believe Mugendramon has been the least absent, but Zextra might come on privately, so IDK.
 
Now... The three poor moderators.
 
First and foremost is Sakura Haruno. The mods say that my points towards this particular mod are to be discounted because I 'hound' them... But I've only gone after him when he's f***ed up (fairly commonly) and after giving him time to try to improve. In fact... Sakura (and Saber) were elected in late June/early July. I never even mentioned anything about him as a moderator until the whole thing with Striker back in September. Even then, I gave him credit as a general moderator as opposed to a CC moderator, where he really does not have the qualifications to lead CC. He's just a cop (IE: What I pitched Damage Control as).
 
But since then, he's just gotten worse. He makes, as evilfusion put it, tactless statements that don't represent the mod team. Night has called him Sakurabot 5000 due to being just a robo-cop. He permabanned someone over a joke without even researching it in the least or taking who said it into account. He, apparently, made a CC-exclusive mod forum while throwing his fellow moderators under the bus when a complaint was raised.
 
A robot is not a leader, and there are surely better cops than one that makes statements and actions that reflect badly on both himself and the mod team. His snowballing string of poor statements and actions will only get worse with time. This isn't 'hounding', as I did not goad him into doing any of these things. Am I adamant that he was a poor choice? Yes. Was I at the time he was elected? I wasn't fond of it, but I held my tongue. That doesn't mean I'm 'hounding' him in any way. I made similar statements about Yin in the past, before she resigned, but those held less traction for the simple fat that she was more liked by the community. Not one of the ex-CC mod team members are happy to see Sakura as a moderator of CC, and I've not seen one person who is truly fond of Sakura as a moderator in general. So between low approval rating, inability to interact with the member base , constant screw-ups, and a lack of any improvement given to the site by this moderator... why is he still a moderator?
 
Then we have Flame Dragon and Phantom Roxas. These two are nothing but relics of the past that hold on to their power but don't use it. Yeah, they do the occasional job of a Damage Control account... but that's it. Even in my day (so, 1.5 years ago at the latest) they filed like 1-2 reports a month each and then moved on with life. They didn't even do anything special or necessarily correct, either. FD repeatedly made moves in RC that went against what Koko and I were doing/the rules of the section, for example. Then there's the fact that a couple of the mods on the team with them says they've done even less than that since I was demoted. Hell, according to JoshIcy, Roxas was meant as a temporary promotion anyways, much like Alfred. We see where that went.
 
And they're not very in touch, in my experience. They lazily watch over the site as a whole and don't try to improve it... and their posts in mod decisions, from experience + newer info fed to me, are just.... there. They don't have a lot of input, they're just making sure their opinion is there. 
 
So if they do nothing of note, don't have sway as moderators, and just sit around and act like normal members that can occasionally remove a spambbot with their mod power... what do they add that potential fresh blood doesn't? Even then, they don't actually pull their weight as cops, from what I saw in the past/have been told, so why are they there at all? It's just ancient board members sticking around just because that's how it's always been, not because it's better for the site. They just take up those 'slots' that make electing new mods take up more time than it should, with opinions that are mostly archaic, even when I was a moderator.
 
For all three of these moderators, they are beat cops at best. And while beat cops can be well and good, they're not what the site needs. We have moderators who are on nearly all the time excluding these three/the inactive three, and there are no issues. If we need cops, we can use Damage Control, not leave people with complete power when they're wont to misuse it/not use it at all. Or we can skip getting beat cops and get straight to finding leaders to improve the site, who can also handle the beat. Beat Mods aren't needed, Leader Mods are.
 
I also want to make a case that none of this is about the mods' characters. This is only about them as moderators. At least one of the last three has a truly positive effect on the community, just not as a moderator, but as an average member. There comes a point when your time as a leader of the site is up, and you should pass the torch on to those who follow, so that they can improve the site where you stopped doing so/never did so.
 
Maybe the other mods have cases for their removal, as well- Who knows? Feel free to say so, if you feel so, I'm just making the cases I see/have seen for a while. I would have preferred if someone else made this post, but someone had to step up to the plate.
 
Don't see any issue with this as a general complaint/praise threads for the mods, either, though that wouldn't belong in C&S, unless it was used in the form of a debate for what mods add to the site..

Shame half of this was just about how your not hounding, because from the logical and true points your saying we can really see that. Great post since I was actually just thinking about this today.

[LordCowCowCowCowCowCowCowCow]

So.

What do you want?

Not meaning to insult but what it is you want done?

Remove the mods I think? How does this help?

Have different mods? Okay, who?

Have the mods do more? As in what?

[Blake]

So.
What do you want?
Not meaning to insult but what it is you want done?
Remove the mods I think? How does this help?
Have different mods? Okay, who?
Have the mods do more? As in what?

I do believe I made myself clear... At least about removing them.

In Sakura's case, one less loose malfunctioning cannon. For the other two, they've been wasting space and create the illusion that the mod team doesn't need more help, even when it truly needs it. Their positions could be given to members looking to improve the site, at best, and at worst we're removing potential abusers of power in the long run, because they've done relatively little non-cosmetic work (think editing thread titles remotely for someone) in years. I doubt they'd abuse it, but why keep dead weight that doesn't offer anything to you in the long run and nothing in the short run?

The mods of most sections are fine. They're active and do their jobs. The ones i pointed out... Do either a poor job or almost no job at all. I mean, the only thing Roxas has done in ages is punish Astro Dude, and a better moderator would have done so sooner. But he was technically under Roxas' jurisdiction.

Most of the site doesn't need to have strong leaders, it's true... But CC, Showcase, CW, etc. do. And most of them have at least decent leadership. But when is electing moderators as leaders instead of beat mods going to harm anyone? Does that not just lend itself to improvement or, if the mod isn't pulling their weight, taking a re-roll? And what do the beat mods add? 3 extra names that cover time slots that other mods likely fill anyways?

We have Rai, Nai, Night, Aix, and Evilfusion. They're all active enough to keep the day safe on their own. They cover at least Asia, the Americas, and England, in terms of time, given how active they are. They're enough of a chunk of time apart for their consistent work to cover that malfunctioning Sakura and less-than-par Roxas and FD cover. I don't believe they add any notable time zone coverage to the site, in case of Spam/Porn. I know Sakura's in Hawaii, but Nai picks up the end of the day slack from the Americas.

Moderation should lead the site, and they have time covered. Rai (thus far), Night, and Aix all visibly fall under this, especially Night as the pseudo-Admin. Evilfusion is no leader of TCG, but he is a major leader behind the scenes and works important maintenance. Nai... Needs to pick up the slack, imo, but they're still new. LZ is probably the most influential mod to the mods, even moreso than Night, in my eyes. He seems like a real leader and he's as absent as YCMaker. Zextra is a decent leader, but he's not active right now. Mugen manages what is Spam Skype the section, which is admittedly really simple to do, modern day. Another solution for him is to bump him to General mod with Rai, provided he becomes active again soon. This also fills the second moderator position for General, should it happen, or it could lead to having a trio, such as CC generally should. If not, same boat as Zextra and LZ. Even if he was promoted to General, if he failed to be more than a general beat cop... Yeah. Support mods are fine, but there should definitely be at least one leader per section, if not more. We don't need janitors.

So then, what can you say for Sakura, FD, and Roxas? Sakura... Isn't a leader in the least. They misrelay and fail to execute info/orders from above and plans. FD doesn't lead, he just posts in a handful of sections, and his posts generally have no seat on a conversation whatsoever.

I will say that Roxas is the most leader-like of the three, but he's still no leader. He handles it better, possibly due to experience in Organization XIII, and he has some knowledge of his sections that make him suited to leading if he would take a chance to do so. He starts VG topics and frequents the same areas as FD... Which is even worse, because they walk the same beat. At the very least, both should not remain moderators, and one of the two stands out above the other.

Those sections, much like General, look to have little room for growth... But they might have some I'm unaware of. More sanctioned events (with point prizes, for example, or just to boost camaraderie) like Secret Santas/Trades happening more often in Anime/TV/etc., or discussions on VG design and what you find more important in a game. These do happen, rarely, but this is from the mind of someone who's not that into Anime, beyond a select few, or TV, and so on. I care about VG, but I mostly stick to things I have, now, and it's always felt like a post about something less than new/rising in popularity in VG (or Music) will go unnoticed. I know Music used to be huge back in the day, but it's declined as its leadership faded, including while Yin was a mod.

Also, you're speaking under the assumption that it's my job to have all the answers with "okay, who?". I said this is a discussion. It is wrong of you to demand I lay out an exact plan of how to move forward when the community hasn't given much input. Do you really want me to be the sole writer of reform, at least in theory?

People have this big hang up about ideas being thrown around if they're not 100% completed, but good ideas rarely are. Kicking them around has never hurt a process at all, unless the process is spit on by the members themselves. So how about I put you in front of a mirror:

What would you do to fix the issues I mentioned? Are they even issues? Was your post constructive? Or was it just undermining? Did you really not know what I wanted, or did you just want to try and make a point? Did said point work?

I don't mean to insult, either, but you did come across more insulting than anything else.

[LordCowCowCowCowCowCowCowCow]

I just would like to point out that I was asking because it didn't seem like your post really said much at first look.

The questions were more to make it clear what the questions that need to be answered are.

You've said this stuff a lot lately so I wanted to know if you had any plans.

I myself don't, but I also haven't thought into it much.

[Flash Flyer - Sakura]

Let's set something straight once and for all.

 

On the night that Desu got banned for whatever reason (which I believe was January 2nd), I was NOT the one who banned him.

At the time of said incident, I was under a power outage (due to a cold front near the Hawaiian island chain), and by coincidence, Desu just happened to get himself banned when I went offline (forcibly).

 

How can you expect me to ban someone if I have no access to a computer, let alone the internet to get on here?

 

Quite frankly, I don't look at your IP addresses unless there is sufficient reason to; I was not informed that Thar/Desu were sharing accounts until a few minutes after returning.

When I was able to return, I see that some of you decide to pin the blame on me for this incident. Recall that sharing accounts with one another isn't cool.

 

 

So in essence, I'm not the one who banned Desu that night, end of story.

Aside from evilfusion, no one knows who did it.

-----------

Yes, I am a bit mechanical in my moderation style at times (and tend to say things I shouldn't at times), but I am human, contrary to what some of you have probably perceived lately. I can make errors, and pretty sure many of you have misspoken at times.

 

Design-wise, I already knew that lack of metagame/design skill would be a bit of a hindrance when I even applied for the position. While I myself wish that it could be higher (and it is getting better), keep in mind that I have/had other commitments that prevent(ed) me from being able to study the metagame and other things applicable to the gamestate at the time.

 

Despite this, I have enough knowledge on the game to be able to make certain calls when needed. I can't do all of them, yes, but remember that I am not Black with his extensive knowledge on the game.

 

Also know that unless there is sufficient reason beyond a doubt that a member should be banned (either due to being a spambot or quite frankly, being disruptive to the community after being told to knock it off several times), I won't do it. Same goes for locking/deleting a thread.

 

-------------

If there were indeed legitimate concerns about how some of the staff members act in their responsibilities (myself included), then why haven't Night or evilfusion been notified about it?

 

Based on my conversations with them and the other moderators, no one except for Black is really saying anything about it.

 

 

If you are unhappy with anything, speak with your own voices. We're willing to listen to your concerns and make the appropriate changes as seen fit.

How do you expect changes to occur if you yourselves don't say anything? I know Night and evilfusion are well-respected by many of you, so let them know of your concerns in private.

 

I would advise you to read the site rules again; if you feel one of the staff members is doing something inappropriate, then let Night/evilfusion know about it.

Nai's made an announcement about the changes, so you can't say that we didn't give you a heads-up on it.

 

 

It's also appreciated if you find out all of the facts before jumping to any conclusions.

 

 

Needed to clear this point up, because this has apparently become a fact, despite not having any legitimate evidence to prove it.

 

 

 

If you have problems with my moderation style or other personal quirks, by all means, PM me.

I am willing to listen, provided you state your case in a civil manner.

[Flame Dragon]

So then, what can you say for Sakura, FD, and Roxas? Sakura... Isn't a leader in the least. They misrelay and fail to execute info/orders from above and plans. FD doesn't lead, he just posts in a handful of sections, and his posts generally have no seat on a conversation whatsoever.

What makes you believe this? We don't interact in any large capacity, so I'm curious why you think my word has little weight?
 

Those sections, much like General, look to have little room for growth... But they might have some I'm unaware of. More sanctioned events (with point prizes, for example, or just to boost camaraderie) like Secret Santas/Trades happening more often in Anime/TV/etc., or discussions on VG design and what you find more important in a game. These do happen, rarely, but this is from the mind of someone who's not that into Anime, beyond a select few, or TV, and so on. I care about VG, but I mostly stick to things I have, now, and it's always felt like a post about something less than new/rising in popularity in VG (or Music) will go unnoticed. I know Music used to be huge back in the day, but it's declined as its leadership faded, including while Yin was a mod.

I've hosted events in the past, in fact I did a pokemon one last year. To be blunt though, they have a hard be successful. My pokemon one had hardly anyone join and the winners didn't even accept their prize for what ever reason. When a 3DS Smash tournament was held it also didn't go well from what I was told. I thought about holding one for the Wii U, but I figured it would likely follow suit. I'd like to hosts events, but I'd rather do so when I think we'll have a decent turn out and I don't think we will. I'm still likely to try a Smash and another Pokemon one though, I'm just waiting for the right time.

And topics like those don't get any traction either. We had one last week and it only got a dozen posts. Most people aren't going to know enough about game design to get a real discussion going. I certainly should have made a thread for "Best game of 2014" and will admit that was a miss on my part. Honestly, despite being one of the more active sections of the forum VG is a pretty orderly place and doesn't need much from me in terms of active moderation.

Outside of that I don't touch CC (As an aside: to address your "working against" point that was because I thought the reports I was clearing were being reported for something that wasn't worthy of a report and didn't really notice the change that was being made. When I did I stopped doing anything with the section since I didn't like the direction you were taking it, but it wasn't exactly my place to push back on it.) or Yugioh since I haven't played the game in almost 5 years. I also haven't ventured into general in a long time from lack of interest. I'm still very active on the forum though, making multiple posts a day and taking part in most of the major mod threads on the mod forum. If the mods don't give weight to what I'm saying, fine, but I have no way of knowing that.

Thats just it, I can't see myself. Who ever it is that coming to you should be coming to the people they are complaining about. Going to you doesn't help me get better. I freely admit I could be doing more, I just haven't felt anything to be going poorly so haven't. Obviously complacency isn't good though since we aren't getting better which should always be an objective. The truth is I AM a relic, I think almost every member of the mod team joined after I had already become a mod, but I think its silly to be like, "6 years old, time to throw him away". I'd like to think I can get just, just as said, figuring out what to do for Video Games isn't easy since tournaments aren't even guaranteed to fire and serious discussion topics aren't going to get much traction.

tl;dr If someone, anyone, has a problem with how I'm doing things, thinks they can help me improve, what have you, message me. I'm more than willing to listen to any criticism or suggestions.

[evilfusion]

This would be SO much easier to reply to if it wasn't so massive, with inaccurate or ambiguous statements riddled throughout it, so that the things I want clarified or confirmed can't be reasonably quoted.

 

1: Sakura banned Desu over a joke

 

No he didn't. You came to the conclusion that he did on circumstantial evidence. And now you're stating it as a fact. Ironic, since you're calling him out by saying he didn't research the situation or the member.

 

2: Sakura made CC-exclusive mod forum and throws other mods under the bus

 

Source please. I have no idea what you're talking about.

 

3: Not one of the ex-CC mods are happy that Sakura's a mod

 

Who is included in this generalization? Why aren't they talking?

 

4: I've never seen one person truly fond of him as a mod

 

This doesn't mean anything. The reverse of this is "I've never seen one person truly opposed to him as a mod". Admittedly, you're an example, but you seem to be the only one willing to vocalize it. That may have something to do with why we seem to think you're hounding him, and in the above massive walls, you emphasize on him so much that I still don't find it reliable. I just think you're extremely biased, even if you do make the occasional fair point, but those points are lost by your frequent comparisons of him to a machine, or a malfunction.

 

5: Low approval rating

 

What low approval rating? Who has gripes? What are these gripes? Who other than you has complaints? Why aren't they being brought up? Why are you the only face for the implied mass of members that dislike Sakura?

 

6: Inability to connect with the member base

 

Same as above. What are you talking about? What are the issues?

 

7: Constant screw-ups

 

Good god, do you have examples?! The only thing I can agree with is the tactless comments, and even then, it's a small thing that doesn't condemn him.

 

8: You hoped someone else would make this post, but someone had to step up to the plate

 

So...instead of someone else voicing their opinion and you waiting until other people nod and agree before hopping in, to prove it's not just you, you decided "screw that, the mass of dissatisfied YCMers need me to be their Mockingjay!"

 

Okay, seriously, who else has gripes? If they're such big issues, why is Black almost the only one who brings them up? Why are examples NEVER specific?

 

 

 

 

[Tentacruel]

It's good to have robots too.  It's why I liked MarbleZone. 

[Flash Flyer - Sakura]

In terms of the CC Mod Forum, it does exist, evilfusion.

 

However, before you guys continue to say that I'm being exclusive, let's explain WHY it's there.

And again, how do you know that I made it? It could've been Nai/Zextra, considering the idea was discussed amongst ourselves beforehand.

 

It exists solely as an organizational tool for Nai, Zextra and myself to plan out events and discuss matters related to the section.

Like I mentioned to Night in a PM earlier today, our conversations tend to get lost in that group conversation we currently have, especially when 2+ other things come up and detract from it.

 

It's a planning forum to keep things organized (whether to plan out potential tournaments, the reward system Aix proposed earlier), nothing more.

Keep in mind that the other moderators are capable of seeing things in there as well, and can say things also if needed.

 

 

Again, I've spoken with Night about it, and he's fine with the forum being there if it helps keep things organized.

[Maeriberii Haan]

Also, another thing regarding that 'secret' forum.

 

It was actually a remnant, a scrapped subforum from the CC reorganization, and since neither me, Sakura, or Zextra is able to delete it (if I remember correctly), we decided to just use it as something like that, rather than leaving it empty..

[Flash Flyer - Sakura]

Also, another thing regarding that 'secret' forum.

 

It was actually a remnant, a scrapped subforum from the CC reorganization, and since neither me, Sakura, or Zextra is able to delete it (if I remember correctly), we decided to just use it as something like that, rather than leaving it empty..

 

I don't recall which forum that used to be, but that is the case here.

 

And yes, we can't delete the forums on our own (hence why there is a Scrap forum in Advanced; basically the unused stuff); I did try to remove them after the renovation, but couldn't do it. Whether or not we'll use them in the future for other things; we do not know at this time, but probably not.

 

Out of fairness, the new DP forum is also one of the discarded forums from the reorganization of CC.

 

----

Again, it's only for organizational purposes so things don't get lost in massive PMs, nothing more.

We're not trying to keep secrets from you all, or the other moderators.

[evilfusion]

I literally don't have an issue with a CC mod forum. My confusion is about the statement of "throwing other mods under bus". But is that regarding the existence of the CC mod forum? That's a pointless complaint.

 

And you're right, you can't delete it. Because I didn't give regular mods the power to delete forums to ensure an insane mod can't literally destroy the entire forum (deliberately OR accidentally).

[Flash Flyer - Sakura]

I would probably assume Black is referencing an earlier comment I made about Nai and Aix having several name changes over a relatively short period of time, compared to the rest of us.

 

Personally, I don't mind that they're doing it, but granted it does make it harder to figure out who they are after a while, especially in the case of newer members.

I know some members have asked me at some point in time about which members are whom (considering that general mod layout thread in News uses the name that we most often call them by).

 

 

Technically speaking, Night's status about the CC Mod area was meant as a joke; and Nai/I already explained the reasoning for having it.

 

----

[Blake]

It is too damn late to tackle everything, so I'm gonna give a tl;dr

I was never told Sakura didn't ban Desu. In fact, other mods led me to believe the assumption was correct. Not ONCE did any of you say it wasn't true, so why would you expect anyone believe the assumption false?

Secondly, FD, from experience. No one ever took you seriously in the mod forum, from what I recall. You made random ass posts that said your opinion was there, but never amounted to at thing and rarely held value. I can't remember one mod forum discussion where your word held up, but I sure as hell can remember Crab/Pika/Koko/Night/LZ. However, I do thank you for the honesty about your actions and your thoughts on it.

Sakura... How can I come to you when you blocked me? Hell, I've tried to help you improve in CC when I've seen you post cards. Am I blunt? Fuck yeah, I am. But I didn't give you a lick of grief until you made tactless statements and the Desu banned happened, in which case it seemed clear that you did it. A lack of communication has left you guilty in the eyes who were there that night. In fact, people said they saw you online until the fuss began, then you disappeared after... So who am I supposed to believe when no statement was made against it? This was genuine drama, and no one came to your defense, not even you. Just Night telling people to calm down.

I don't think there's any irony in me not k owing, when its withheld information.

I have gone to Night. Just like I went to him with a certain member. I haven't made the FD/Roxas case to him, but I lay into him in private all the time. I tell him what he does wrong and what the team does wrong. Nothing's changes if nothing changes.

Why does no one else speak up? This is exactly why! I've made the point over and over, but in the 2 or so hours I was gone, I come back to mods saying "well you're wrong move along". You ask me to be civil, so I come forward with a composed argument... And I don't feel any civility from Evilfusion or Sakura. It's like, fuck, no one except mods and ex-mods ever get to raise points like this because they're the only ones that know how it works. I waited /2 weeks/ for someone else to post it. JoshIcy had a mental breakdown, though he was supposed to post it, and the others I asked gave up because no one wants to put up with this shit. And as sad as it is, I care about the improvement of this site. I'm sick to my stomach as I type this, but I don't care. I even know I have a mod or two behind me who adamantly agree, but they don't want to begin the taboo rolling of the ball.

As for why they haven't come forward? I know Josh has made complaints in PMs. And I know Koko doesn't pick fights she isn't sure she can win 100%. I'm a bit scrappier than that, so I figured I'd make an actual case, because using screw ups like tactless statements and the apparent Desu event hasn't had impact.

And am I biased? Well I mean, I'm saying they've done a poor job. That's inherently biased. I don't go after anyone unless they slip up or seem to, and otherwise just work to myself. In fact, until Desu, I hadn't said a word to/about Sakura to anyone but Koko/Bree in weeks. I simply had no reason to pursue it at that time because that's the only time members tend to care enough about problems to fix them. Like the Striker debacle in September. Each screw up or apparent screw up has worsened my opinion of Sakura, so yes, it's biased.

As for the robot thing... That's YCM's stance on Sakura. I'm not even the one that called him one first or incapable of humor. These are things said by others in public. I don't think I've made an original statement about Sakura, actually. Not even 'malfunctioning'. These are terms generated from the community and staff as a whole.

So you know what? I might have some info that's not correct, but what would lead me to believe otherwise? You don't come clean with acts, you just hide them away. Perhaps you should tell us who banned Desu, because I was led to believe it was Sakura, and that's persisted in the community. Communicate better. I stand by what I said about FD and Roxas being archaic and Sakura being a bad moderator, though if you can tell us who made the ban, I'll surely recant my statement about Sakura banning.

So why haven't the members who don't like Sakura stepped forward? Too much effort and too little care to deal with this, especially when it seems rare that anyone but Mods/Ex-Mods get to have a genuine say.

Icy? Breakdown. Koko? Not near as ready to pick a fight as before, considering she only likes in for boredom most times.
Mods? You really think they want to be on the outs with everyone else by stating an opinion that one or more of you should be removed?

It all boils down to me not giving a flying fuck what you mods think of me. I'd probably be banned on another site for all the shit I GHE you guys, but what astounds me is that nothing really changes one way or another. I'm trying for the best of the site, I just happen to have a sharp tongue. I'm not trying to cause trouble, I'm trying to smooth it out, because the site has a fuck ton of flaws that need to be taken care of. CC is absolute garbage, not to mention someone posting racist shit half the time (I reported one today, so don't say report it. Might've been handled already, idk), TCG is worse than it was a year ago and even before (just from sections I 'frequent'), and there are so many mods that are either inactive or complacent. Like I said, I can't talk as much about other sections, but I can speak on the ones I know.

Hell, you can't change people, but you can have leaders that can help, y'know, lead people who want to try to improving.

My era's gone. Just like Flame's, Roxas', Yin's, Rinne's, and al those other mods before me, for the most part. Doesn't mean I don't want the site to be better for the future members and moderation. So excuse me if I'm harsh or biased, but someone has to do it, and I might as well embrace being a hardass on all of you, considering you might actually improve one day. I genuinely miss Pika being in charge at times, and I got demoted for trying to get her demoted for being even harder of an ass for sheer kicks.

And my beat cop argument wasn't tackled even once, unless I missed it, and it was a major part of my argument.

I have a lot of complaints, but I honestly doubt you all would listen to them, truly. So I just funnel it to the mods I'm friendly with and the boss man himself, most days. And so it goes with most people, though ice become a surrogate mod for this purpose with a handful of people. I'm not going to throw them under the bus, but I think the likes on the OP show that in really not alone in this thought process.

[Smear]

Tbh I think the mod teams pretty good, and Sakura is probably helping out the YCM community the most for what I'm concerned.

 

I think everyone's pulling their weight (although I haven't seen much of Roxas but maybe that's because I lurk sections he doesn't moderate as much or something idk)

[Goose]

I'll throw my two cents in. No one here seems to actually be interested in "improving" the site. Everyone just wants to be right. Take that for what it's worth.

[Phantom Roxas]

My era's gone. Just like Flame's, Roxas', Yin's, Rinne's, and al those other mods before me, for the most part. Doesn't mean I don't want the site to be better for the future members and moderation. So excuse me if I'm harsh or biased, but someone has to do it, and I might as well embrace being a hardass on all of you, considering you might actually improve one day. I genuinely miss Pika being in charge at times, and I got demoted for trying to get her demoted for being even harder of an ass for sheer kicks.

Let me see if I understand this correctly. You believe that the current mod team is overly controlling, and the only reason more people aren't speaking up is because they're afraid of retribution, so you need to stand up and advocate for some "revolution" - because like Evilfusion said, that's basically what this is - and you're giving a voice to those who are afraid. And yet, you're lamenting that we're trying to "silence" you by posting on here… to argue against points made specifically against us, as if we're supposed to just take what you're saying and deal with it. You know, the exact same thing you're accusing us of doing to others. You didn't acknowledge Armadilloz, KingOfOblivion, or Tentacruel.

Just because you're willing to admit that your time is in the past doesn't mean that, in turn, anyone who was a mod before you has retroactively outstayed their welcome. And frankly, just because Icy says I was meant as temporary mod doesn't mean that I'm Cinderella, and I'm just too afraid to admit that it's after midnight. Even if FD and I hit the same beats, I don't see it as a bad thing. Sure, as far as you're concerned, it doesn't make us too different, but is the problem that it makes the authority on Multimedia too singular, making the forum too… bland, shall we say? Or is this just another pretense to get one of us demoted?

[Blake]

Let me see if I understand this correctly. You believe that the current mod team is overly controlling, and the only reason more people aren't speaking up is because they're afraid of retribution, so you need to stand up and advocate for some "revolution" - because like Evilfusion said, that's basically what this is - and you're giving a voice to those who are afraid. And yet, you're lamenting that we're trying to "silence" you by posting on here… to argue against points made specifically against us, as if we're supposed to just take what you're saying and deal with it. You know, the exact same thing you're accusing us of doing to others. You didn't acknowledge Armadilloz, KingOfOblivion, or Tentacruel.

Just because you're willing to admit that your time is in the past doesn't mean that, in turn, anyone who was a mod before you has retroactively outstayed their welcome. And frankly, just because Icy says I was meant as temporary mod doesn't mean that I'm Cinderella, and I'm just too afraid to admit that it's after midnight. Even if FD and I hit the same beats, I don't see it as a bad thing. Sure, as far as you're concerned, it doesn't make us too different, but is the problem that it makes the authority on Multimedia too singular, making the forum too… bland, shall we say? Or is this just another pretense to get one of us demoted?

What's there to acknowledge with Armz or King of Oblivion? The houdning point got covered later, and Armz was basically non-existent. I did miss Tenta, but it was 3 fucking AM.

 

I'm not doing anything of the sort. I gave Flame credit where it was due, my only point was that it definitely felt angry from Evilfusion and Sakura, partially for not knowing information you guys didn't release, and that your post falls under the same. You want me to be civil? Don't come in with harsh tones.

 

You have outstayed your welcome. Like I said, mods have complained about you AND Flame Dragon not pulling your weight, which is never something I heard of either Yin or Rinne, the latter I have heard no complaints about since the Advanced Clause stuff ended. I wouldn't say Rinne's time was gone had he not stepped down, actually. However, I'd say your time was actually up before I even became a mod, because it seems no one has seen you do anything since before I was promoted, same for Flame Dragon. But at least he was willing to admit he could improve more to do. It's understandable to be annoyed at complaints, but try to take them and improve them, not just respond with bile.

 

Walking the same beat means you don't add anything. You just patrol the same sections, acting largely as members, and don't use your powers for anything. Wanna prove me wrong? Pick up your slack. I may be advocating for you to be removed, with the blessing of a few mods, but that has nothing to do with it being a pretense. I stated it straight; You're a relic whose opinions rarely mattered in the mod forum in all of my experience/what I've been told since, and as a member it's not much different.

 

Still no comments on the fact that mods shouldn't be beat cops...

 

Oh, and I've learned that you actively told a mod mentioned here not to resign because it was 'unnecessary'. Not from that Mod's mouth, but all the same... that doesn't really make sense.

[Night]

 

 

I honestly don't know where we're at here so I'm just going to try and reply to most of what you said.

 

Sakura... How can I come to you when you blocked me? 

 

I wasn't aware of that, personally I understand the issues between the two of you more than most seeing as though I'm in the middle of it a good majority of the time, however I still don't think mods should ever block anyone, regardless of the situation. That to me  just doesn't seem like a good idea. 

I have gone to Night. Just like I went to him with a certain member. I haven't made the FD/Roxas case to him, but I lay into him in private all the time. I tell him what he does wrong and what the team does wrong. Nothing's changes if nothing changes.

 

I can attest to this, he's voiced his opinions to me prior. The problem is, even if I'm a super mod I'm still limited in what I can do or say. Can't just go around making arbitrary decisions even if I personally think it's for the best. 

As for the robot thing... That's YCM's stance on Sakura. I'm not even the one that called him one first or incapable of humor. These are things said by others in public. I don't think I've made an original statement about Sakura, actually. Not even 'malfunctioning'. These are terms generated from the community and staff as a whole.

 

To be honest when I said he was a robot that's just me joking around as per usual, same thing with the CC mod forum shit that they made, I don't see any problems with it. If it helps for organizational purposes than I don't see why that shouldn't be a thing.

What's the issue with that anyway? That status I made was genuinely a joke, do people actually have issues with that forum? 

 

oi maybe I should become evilfusion2 and be super srs all the time.

 

Anyway, yeah even if the kid's a robot he files the absolute fuck out of those reports so in that sense I'm fine with it.

So you know what? I might have some info that's not correct, but what would lead me to believe otherwise? You don't come clean with acts, you just hide them away. Perhaps you should tell us who banned Desu, because I was led to believe it was Sakura, and that's persisted in the community. 

 

We've already dealt with it among the supers, I personally went ahead and checked the ip of said member and it turns out that there were 2-3 members using the account, so no it wasn't a "joke." We know for sure who one of them is although they'll remain nameless. Technically the account should have stayed banned however the double account / sharing accounts rule wasn't actually written anywhere or at the very least wasn't exactly easily seen so for that reason we did decide the account should remain unbanned and then made sure that the rules were updated so that in the event this happens again members/mods have something to refer to. So yeah, our apologies for not clearing that up I guess, although to be fair we didn't really see it as a big deal. 

So why haven't the members who don't like Sakura stepped forward? Too much effort and too little care to deal with this, especially when it seems rare that anyone but Mods/Ex-Mods get to have a genuine say.

 

To be fair, I made a status 2-3 weeks ago imploring members who frequented CC to give me a gauge on how they thought CC was being handled, I specifically asked them about Sakura and of the four I spoke with three said he was doing fine and one was indifferent. If anyone has any complaints but wants to voice them in private, feel free to pm me. I'll be sure that you'll remain anonymous. 

 

That goes for any other issue with any aspect of the site, I genuinely want to assist. 

someone posting racist shit half the time (I reported one today, so don't say report it. Might've been handled already, idk)

 

This was just brought up in the mod forum, I believe it was dismissed. If you feel adamantly about it, send me the link. I'll look into it myself. 

And my beat cop argument wasn't tackled even once, unless I missed it, and it was a major part of my argument.
 

Nahh, you're right about that, there's no denying it. If someone has the ability to do more with the power they are given, it's only fair to ask more of them. 

 

 

_______________________

 

 

Now can we please stop arguing about who's inactive or who's bad for the site or whatever the fuck and actually work towards a solution. Seeing as though that is the main reason for this thread.

 

Alright, so your main issue is that some moderators are inactive and in turn do not benefit their sections. You also stated that you do not believe CC is currently in the best state and even though I thought you considered Nai to be doing a good job you're now saying he could do more. 

 

Kk, so the best solution I can come up with is that we promote three new moderators, not immediately, but rather once a month or so for three months. 2 moderators to appropriate the classic super mod role and pick up the "slack" of the the 6 or so semi-active ones we currently have and 1 that you, Koko, and Icy collectively agree upon to represent CC and you three personally. I agree that the 3 ex-mods of a section should have a say in how said section is being run, you're right in that regard. 

 

So with that, it would leave us with about 10 active duty moderators with the back-up "beat" moderators. Plus the fresh blood is always good for the forum. 

 

In conclusion we (staff) all agree right now that we all could do more for the site, myself included. 

[Flame Dragon]

Secondly, FD, from experience. No one ever took you seriously in the mod forum, from what I recall. You made random ass posts that said your opinion was there, but never amounted to at thing and rarely held value. I can't remember one mod forum discussion where your word held up, but I sure as hell can remember Crab/Pika/Koko/Night/LZ. However, I do thank you for the honesty about your actions and your thoughts on it.

My of the time my opinions are in line with what has already been said, so its not like had a ton more to add. I also wasn't as active back then if memory serves. I've since tried to be more active at least in the mod forum and the back round goings on with the forum since, again, I only do so much on the front facing side.
 

You have outstayed your welcome. Like I said, mods have complained about you AND Flame Dragon not pulling your weight, which is never something I heard of either Yin or Rinne, the latter I have heard no complaints about since the Advanced Clause stuff ended. I wouldn't say Rinne's time was gone had he not stepped down, actually. However, I'd say your time was actually up before I even became a mod, because it seems no one has seen you do anything since before I was promoted, same for Flame Dragon. But at least he was willing to admit he could improve more to do. It's understandable to be annoyed at complaints, but try to take them and improve them, not just respond with bile.

I've never had a mod tell me that though. Honestly, thats my problem right now. I don't get why they couldn't just come to me and have an open discussion with me about how much I do and what they think I could improve on.

[Toffee.]

*Raises hand*
Can I NOT be mentioned in this topic, with regards to people potentially being a mod?
My IRL job doesn't let me have as much time here as I used to. Or at least, for the moment.

[Chaotic Angel]

Wow. Holy shit. That's all I have to react to.

 

But hey, opinion wise, I would have to say all mods here are doing a decent job and some of them I met here 7 years ago when I joined (Many people may have forgotten me because I'm a lingering member, a ghost you might wanna say) until now. Some may have done a worse job than others but I never complained. I just went with the flow and did as they said. Whatever the hell gives people the right to complain about mods without sufficient evidence is way beyond me. I mean honestly. I was absent for three years from 2010 so I didn't exactly know what was going on, but as far as I can read this is just bollocks. Anyone can tell that.

 

As far as I know, for sure, none of the mods here deserve criticising, unless you have a very good excuse for doing so. That's it for me then, I hope you all have a good day.

 

Excuse me for intervening, though. Please tell me if I'm going overboard.

[Nathanael D. Striker]

Um, I don't think it'd be wise for Black, Koko, and Icy to decide a new mod by themselves. They may be ex-mods (just like myself), but I don't think they even frequent the section enough to know what it really needs. Does it need a leader? Yes, but I doubt they know just the kind of leader CC needs as there are many kinds of Leadership to sort through. Being a Leader and finding a Leader is not as easy as Black seems to claim. No, it is the most difficult thing there is and this is coming from personal experience.

Back to my original point, why not toss me and some of the more senior CC members into that discussion. You know, the people who are going to have to live with the new mod. Best to have our say too.