Maeriberii Haan Posted January 9, 2015 Report Share Posted January 9, 2015 Well, decided to release them to the Public cardpool after a while. I did also release Illusions and several custom Crystal beast supports, but they lacked proper testing. Alright, on to the cards. No images because can't find them for some of these, so for equality's sake, everyone didn't get images. I'm seriously picky when it comes to this, so yeah. [hr] [spoiler=About the deck] Celestials is an archetype of LIGHT and EARTH attribute monsters focusing on Fusion summoning, by way of setting up the graveyard, among other things. The deck also rewards you from sitting on several monsters, which can continuously help you with setups and other things. The deck nature's quite aggressive, but the deck do have the capability to survive grind games. [/spoiler] [divider1] [spoiler=Monsters] Earthly Celestial of the Material World *4 Warrior/Effect EARTH 1900/1200 When this card is Normal Summoned if you have equal to or less than 3 monsters in your graveyard, send 1 “Celestial” monster from your deck to the graveyard. During each of your End Phase, if this card is the only monster you control, you can discard 1 card; add 1 “Celestial” Spell or Trap Card from your deck to your hand. The first of the main fusion materials, and generally one of the main cards of the deck. Opening with this card on your first turn is quite desirable, as she can set the fusion spell on her own, using the card sent to the graveyard by its first effect and the second effect as the other materials counting herself, and she even searches the fusion spell, among other things. Definitely a vital card. Celestial Knight of the Silent Hope *4 Warrior/Effect Earth 1200/1900 When this card is summoned, you can banish 1 "Celestial" card from your graveyard; destroy 1 Spell/Trap card on the field and change this card into face-up Defense Position. If this card is in your graveyard, you can discard 1 Spell Card, banish this card from the graveyard, and banish an "Earthly Celestial of the Material World" or "Celestial Dragon of the Scarlet Jewel" you control; Fusion Summon a Fusion monster from your extra deck which lists the banished monster as a Fusion material, then banish all monsters from your graveyard. You can only activate this effect of "Celestial Knight of the Silent Hope" once per turn. He's...a pseudo Lyla, that also works as extra copies of your Fusion Spell in a pinch. The fact that this allows you to fuse more than once per turn is really vital. Celestial Veil Dancer of the Sea of Clouds *4 Fairy/Effect Light 1500/1600 When a "Celestial" monster(s) would be destroyed, you can banish this card instead from your graveyard. You can discard this card from your hand; add 1 "Celestial" Spell or Trap Card from your deck to your hand. You can only activate one effect of “Celestial Veil Dancer of the Sea of Clouds” per turn, and only once that turn. Celestial Dragon of the Scarlet Jewels *4 Dragon/Effect Earth 1800/1300 Once per turn, you can send 1 card from your hand to the graveyard; add 1 “Celestial” monster from your deck to your hand, then if this card is the only monster you control, send the top 3 cards of your deck to the graveyard. When this card destroys a monster by battle, send 1 "Celestial" monster from your deck to the graveyard. The second of the main fusion materials, this card focuses purely on monster setups. It has a more powerful and faster set-up effect compared to Earthly Celestial, but it can't set a fusion summon on its own. Celestial Dragon of the Heavenly Wings *4 Dragon/Effect Light 1300/1800 When this card is Normal Summoned and you control no other monsters, you can Special Summon 1 level 4 or lower “Celestial” monster from your graveyard in Defense position, but its effect is negated. When this card is banished, send 1 "Celestial" monster from your deck to your graveyard. Only one effect of "Celestial Dragon of the Heavenly Wings" can be activated per turn, and only once that turn. Celestial Dragon of the Flawless Veil *4 Dragon/Effect Light 1600/1500 Once per turn, you can discard 1 "Celestial" monster; add 1 "Celestial" card from your graveyard to your hand. During either player's turn when you control a face-up "Celestial" Fusion monster, you can send this card from your hand or your side of the field to the graveyard; until the End Phase, "Celestial" monsters you control are not affected by your opponent's card effects. Last of the dragons, this card's main use is to recycle cards that's stuck on the graveyard, while also being a pseudo-Infestation Pandemic handtrap for your fusions. Celestial Deletor of the Earthly Prison *4 Warrior/Effect Dark 1900/1200 This card is also treated as an EARTH-attribute monster. If this card is used as a fusion material monster of a "Celestial" or "Deleted" monster, you can send 1 "Celestial" or 1 "Deletor" monster from your deck to the graveyard. If this card destroys a monster by battle, you can tribute this card; Special Summon 1 "Celestial" or "Deletor" monster from your deck in Defense Position. [/spoiler] [divider1] [spoiler=Spells and Traps] Ascension of the Celestial Beings Spell Card Banish, from your side of the field or graveyard, the materials for a “Celestial” Fusion monster in your extra deck, then fusion summon the monster. You can only activate 1 “Ascension of the Celestial Being” per turn. Sacred Paradise of the Transcendent Celestials Field Spell Card When this card is activated, add 1 "Celestial" monster from your deck to your hand, then discard 1 card. Once per turn, you can return 2 of your banished "Celestial" monsters to the graveyard; this turn, "Celestial" monsters you control gains 500 ATK. This pretty much turns the Fusion Spell into an almost costless card, among helping you survive grind games while giving you a way to get over big monsters without accessing the Extra Deck. The consistency boost is nice too. A Flash of the Celestial Scarlet Sword Spell Card If you control a LIGHT monster, you can return 2 of your banished monsters to your graveyard; draw 1 card and send 1 EARTH monster from your deck to your graveyard. If you control an EARTH monster, you can shuffle 2 monsters from your graveyard to your deck; destroy 1 card on the field and send 1 LIGHT monster from your deck to the graveyard. You can only activate 1 effect of "A Flash of the Celestial Scarlet Sword" per turn, and only once that turn. A powerful utility card that sets you up further, but it needs prior setup so multiples can be dead in your opening hand. Blessing of the Celestial Beings Spell Card Banish 1 "Celestial" monster from your hand; draw 2 cards. You cannot Special Summon monsters for the rest of the turn, except "Celestial" monsters. Draw card, pretty much. WIll of Heaven Quick-play Spell Card (This is always treated as a "Celestial" card) Activate if you control a face-up "Celestial" monster that are listed as a material for a "Celestial" Fusion monster. Banish it, then banish, from your hand or graveyard, the other fusion materials listed for the Fusion Monster, and Fusion Summon it to your side of the field. You cannot summon monsters the turn you activated this card, except "Celestial" monsters. You can only activate 1 "Will of Heaven" per turn. A second, semi Fusion spell. Kinda. It functions for you to explode easily in the battle phase. Grand Sky and Blue Gradation Continuous Trap Card (This card is always treated as a “Celestial” card.) During each of your your opponent's Standby Phase, you can add 1 "Celestial" monster from your graveyard to your hand. During each of your Standby Phase, you can send 1 "Celestial" monster from your deck to the graveyard. When this card is sent from the field to the graveyard, add 1 "Celestial" card from your deck to your hand. You can only control 1 "Grand Sky and Blue Gradation". A card akin to Infernoid's support Continuous Trap cards, this is meant for setup, while giving you better grind game ability. [/spoiler] [divider1] [spoiler=Boss Monsters] Heavenly Celestial of the Immaterial World *8 Fairy/Fusion/Effect Light 2900/2200 ''Earthly Celestial of the Material World'' + 1 LIGHT monster + 1 EARTH monster. Must be Fusion Summoned first. When this card declares an attack, excavate the top 4 cards of your deck. Add 1 of them to your hand, then send the rest to the graveyard. If you control no monsters, you can discard 1 card, return this card from your graveyard to the extra deck, and shuffle 2 “Celestial” monsters from your graveyard to your deck; Special Summon 1 of your banished “Earthly Celestial of the Material World" in face-up Attack position. Celestial Dragon Lord of the Perfect Harmony *8 Wyrm/Fusion/Effect Light 2800/2300 “Celestial Dragon of the Scarlet Jewel” + 1 LIGHT monster + 1 EARTH monster. Must be Fusion Summoned first. Once per turn, you can banish 2 “Celestial” cards from your graveyard and target 1 card on the field; destroy it and gain 1000 life points. If you control no monsters, you can discard 1 card, return this card from your graveyard to the extra deck, and shuffle 2 “Celestial” monsters from your graveyard to your deck; Special Summon 1 of your banished “Celestial Dragon of the Scarlet Jewel” in face-up Defense Position. Problem solver card mainly. Majestic Deleted Celestial of the Heavenly Time Prison *8 Fairy/Fusion/Effect Dark 2900/2200 1 "Celestial" monster + 1 "Deletor" monster + 1 DARK monster Must be Fusion Summoned first. Other card effects are negated after the turn they are activated or summoned. During the end of a Battle Phase that this card declares an attack successfully, you can target 1 card on the field; banish it. When this card is sent from the field to the graveyard and you didn't control another monster, add 1 Spell Card that can Fusion Summon a monster from your graveyard to your hand. Distant Celestial of Fake Enlightenment Rank 4 Fairy/Xyz/Effect Dark 1900/1200 2 Level 4 "Celestial" monster. Once per turn, you can detach 1 Xyz Material from this card; this card gains 500 ATK and the following effect until the end of your opponent's next turn. -When this card destroys a monster by battle, add 1 "Celestial" card from your graveyard to your hand. When this card is destroyed by your opponent’s card (by battle or by card effect), draw 1 card. [/spoiler] [divider1] [spoiler=Changelogs] ~=January 11th=~ -Mixed up the effects of the three dragons amongst each other, for balancing purposes. ~=January 12th=~ -Buffed Will of Heaven ~=April 15th=~ -Reworked some of the cards, gave them some descriptions, and added Grand Sky and Blue Gradation. [/spoiler] [hr] I guess that's all for now. I might put the explanation for each cards later on. Discuss, I guess? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darj Posted January 9, 2015 Report Share Posted January 9, 2015 Awesome archetype. I have tested them with proxies before, and really liked its performance. I see a couple of changes, but back then they had a slow startup but after setting things up they dropped explosive plays and paid the advantage off right away. However, if you drew into it earlier, "Celestial Dragon of the Heavenly Wings" --> "Distant Celestial of Fake Enlightenment" allowed you to keep field presence and card advantage while you set everything up. Form my experience, Heavenly Wings + "Celestial Veil Dancer of the Sea of Clouds" was the best combo you could draw into with the starting hand. I underestimated "Blessing of the Celestial Beings" at first, but it is so good at speeding the deck up, fixing hands, setting the LIGHT effect of "A Flash of the Celestial Scarlet Sword" up, and possibly triggering Veil Dancer, plus it is searchable by Veil Dancer itself. Their playstyle is interesting and unique too: they focus in milling like Lightsworns, but instead of dropping Judgment Dragons or beaters and OTKing, they rely on their archetype Miracle Fusion that requires 1 more material than the standard 2-material Fusions, which makes it slightly more difficult to abuse by requiring a bit more of setup. I would say they are one the most fair and balanced archetypes in DP (unless the recent changes broke them somehow). Really, this is another of my favorite DP archetypes along "Mirage Guardians". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maeriberii Haan Posted January 11, 2015 Author Report Share Posted January 11, 2015 The biggest thing was the shift from Flawless Veil into Scarlet Jewels when it comes to importance, with Celestial Dragon now requiring the latter. The rest was more slight rebalancing, and with the recent changes, reworking how the dragons interact with each others. Also Will of Heaven, which seems pretty underwhelming now. Right now, there's two way to regain advantages, but since both are placed on the LIGHT monsters, you won't be able to utilize both at the same time. Kinda felt the EARTH lineup's a bit weak atm, but it seems to work well enough atm. And the shift from EARTH to LIGHT for the draw 1 on banish changed a lot of things, apparently. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darj Posted January 11, 2015 Report Share Posted January 11, 2015 I see. I noticed the Attribute shift on Veil Dancer and in theory it should have had a noticeable impact. For instance, now you can't mill it with the LIGHT effect of Scarlet Sword, which was one of the go-to plays during the setup stage. However, it can be milled with the EARTH effect. Will of Heaven looks fine because it enables a 2nd Fusion Summon during the same turn, similar to "El Shaddoll Fusion" (it even is a Quick-Play as well), and at worst is an additional copy of the Fusion so you can draw into it earlier if needed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Love of Ghibli Posted January 11, 2015 Report Share Posted January 11, 2015 Well first I must say that I like them far far more than the Mirage Guardians. They seem like they have a litany of shenans but can still be balanced. So far the only problems I have are. Veil Dancer: Why does she have that draw effect? It looks like most of the banishing is going to be from the graveyard anyway. So there it just seems like needless plussing there isn't even a OPT clause on it so it just generates extra advantage. Tempest of Heaven: A borderline Judgement that triggers a bunch of card effects and is reloadable. I'm not a fan. At the VERY least the reloadable part should be deleted. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maeriberii Haan Posted January 11, 2015 Author Report Share Posted January 11, 2015 Veil Dancer actually has the Dragon Ruler clause on it, or something to that effect. And, the plussing is actually really needed as a safety net due to the deck's few ways to generate direct advantage outside of the fusion's effects, and the fact that more often than not, the deck has the tendency to be outpaced by other decks due to its slow-rolling nature, hence the draw is needed to close the gap. As for Tempest of Heaven and Earth, yeah, the self-recycling part is not needed. --- Also, after thinking for a bit, Will of Heaven is completely crappy aside from dealing game-ending damage. It's a -3 at worst in a deck that can't actually take that minus for the most part of the game, which is also unsearchable. While the concept is indeed based on El-Shaddoll Fusion's utility, I just put waay too much negatives on it. I'll rework it to make it more forgiving, while still keeping what I have in mind about it, theme and usage-wise. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darj Posted January 11, 2015 Report Share Posted January 11, 2015 Veil Dancer actually has the Dragon Ruler clause on it, or something to that effect. And, the plussing is actually really needed as a safety net due to the deck's few ways to generate direct advantage outside of the fusion's effects, and the fact that more often than not, the deck has the tendency to be outpaced by other decks due to its slow-rolling nature, hence the draw is needed to close the gap. As for Tempest of Heaven and Earth, yeah, the self-recycling part is not needed. --- Also, after thinking for a bit, Will of Heaven is completely crappy aside from dealing game-ending damage. It's a -3 at worst in a deck that can't actually take that minus for the most part of the game, which is also unsearchable. While the concept is indeed based on El-Shaddoll Fusion's utility, I just put waay too much negatives on it. I'll rework it to make it more forgiving, while still keeping what I have in mind about it, theme and usage-wise. I agree that the draw effect is arguably needed to keep the advantage up and, in a way, recover the cards you invested on setting the Fusion Materials up in the grave. Otherwise the archetype would be overwhelmed by the opponent during early and mid-game (their "setup stage") and by the time you assemble the pieces for a Fusion Summon, it may be too late. --- When you mentioned that Will of Heaven was a -3, I had to re-read it because at first I thought it banished the rest of the materials from the grave, but now I see it does from the hand. That explains why it is not working well. How about banishing the rest also from the grave instead? So in a way, it is a "Celestial Fusion" that requires at least 1 material on the field, but comes with the perks of a Quick-Play Spell, plus it can make certain materials in the hand live, such as Veil Dancer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maeriberii Haan Posted January 12, 2015 Author Report Share Posted January 12, 2015 The biggest issue with the deck so far would be opening too much spells, which is a very real possibility. Granted, with how much the deck digs through the deck, running lower number of some spells would work, but getting them accidentally milled would be a huge pain. Opening all-monsters is far from bad here, with how many of the monsters and the tech monster choices can set you up well for first turn. Thinking of giving the fusion spell some sort of recycling effect that's not too abusable, just to address this issue, probably moving the Counter Trap's recycle into it. Also, Will of Heaven is updated, and I've started working on some explanation regarding each cards. Might do a tech and other staples section later. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maeriberii Haan Posted February 24, 2015 Author Report Share Posted February 24, 2015 Bumping this with a question. Am I making them too balanced? I haven't gotten to play with them more for quite a while, but with how restrictive I am in design compared with others here, I wonder if it's the case or not. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darj Posted February 25, 2015 Report Share Posted February 25, 2015 Last time I fought them, except for the mass-milling Fusion, I found them fair and balanced personally. Sure, they pack a punch with the Fusions after setting things up, but since it takes a while to do so, I think it is fair. I would say this is actually one of the few archetypes closest to the power level I want for the DP metagame. However, It wouldn't hurt to fight them again anytime soon to understand better the latest changes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cirrus Posted February 25, 2015 Report Share Posted February 25, 2015 I like the level of balance this archetype sports. A good sense of design is exhibited here in how the cards flow into each other, and manage to set up fairly reliably without being overwhelming. Its monsters all play a relatively singular role in how the deck functions while having a semi-useful secondary effect. The Field Spell and the removal effects could use some targeting, however; and the opponent is heavily encouraged to destroy the Field Spell as quickly as possible solely due to the extremely threatening second clause. I recommend making it during your End Phase only (and as mentioned earlier in the sentence, making it target). The Normal Spell can probably get away with not targeting, as, well, the destruction is conditional and it's a Normal Spell. Some effects kind of feel tacked on though, like for example Veil Dancer's extra Normal Summon clause. Why not just make it a discard instead or something to that effect? That's what it essentially is aside from the possible Solemn Warning. Celestial Dragon Lord also feels like it could use a different proc condition on the draw, like if you have 2 (1?) or fewer cards in hand, as otherwise it seems to just be a free draw randomly even if you have 4+ cards in hand. Blessing doesn't seem like it actually has a downside, and I recommend it skips the Battle Phase, especially as you plus off stuff getting banished. I am of the opinion that an archetype should have /maybe/ 1 card that doesn't target, and that effect should be one-shot. But I understand your design choices if they were made to compete with the DP metagame :x Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maeriberii Haan Posted February 26, 2015 Author Report Share Posted February 26, 2015 Actually on the last part, no. This archetype's quite old (14 months old to be more exact). Aside from some streamlining, most of it stays roughly the same, hence how I wondered whether they're overbalanced in today's game. In retrospect, the field being a Sword Mistress of Phantasm during each end phase does sound problematic, yeah. I'll go make it target. It was originally an oversight anyway, but I used to decide that I'll keep it. I've made A Flash of Scarlet Sword to also targets now. Dancer's tribute+extra NS was a leftover from when doing so was necessary. I've changed it to discard instead, though now it does trigger the field. I've changed dragon's draw to be on the End Phase, to reinforce the delayed reward theme. Blessing locks you out of Xyz options, and it's actually a big enough thing, Banishing gives you plusses, but it's their only source of plusses aside from the Extra deck and the field. And, the only card that gives you immediate advantage is Veil Dancer. Not to mention, the deck's really Battle Phase heavy, since it thrives on constant pushing for damage with a minimal amount of monsters on the field at any time. Skipping BP in anytime aside from the very early part of the game would set off the deck too much. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cirrus Posted February 26, 2015 Report Share Posted February 26, 2015 Blessing locks you out of Xyz options, and it's actually a big enough thing, Banishing gives you plusses, but it's their only source of plusses aside from the Extra deck and the field. And, the only card that gives you immediate advantage is Veil Dancer. Not to mention, the deck's really Battle Phase heavy, since it thrives on constant pushing for damage with a minimal amount of monsters on the field at any time. Skipping BP in anytime aside from the very early part of the game would set off the deck too much. Blessing is a straight up Allure when it's activated that sometimes +1s, without significant drawback because it seems rare that you'd actually want to Xyz (unless it's a turn that you play Celestial Dragon in, but that just reinforces the argument). If the Deck can handle / needs that, then that is fine, but I mentioned skipping the Battle Phase precisely because I noticed that it would be an actual setback as opposed to the clause it has currently (so you wouldn't automatically max out and would play it either during lull turns or setup turns). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maeriberii Haan Posted February 26, 2015 Author Report Share Posted February 26, 2015 Sure, banishing is the only source of pluses, but it also seems to be an ubiquitous form of pluses. Blessing is a straight up +1 most of the time it's activated, without significant drawback because it's rare that you'd actually want to Xyz (unless it's a turn that you play Celestial Dragon in, but that just reinforces the argument). If the Deck can handle / needs that, then that is fine, but I mentioned skipping the Battle Phase precisely because I noticed that it would be an actual setback as opposed to the clause it has currently. It's too much of a setback to the point of crippling. The +1 you get from Blessing is the same +1 you'll get from fusing that turn, since both of the stuffs that get + when they're banished have hard OPT. Aside from the really early game (a time when the BP restriction won't matter anyway), you'll getting that +1 from doing either anyway. At best, it allows you to utilize both of the banish for + in the same turn. Both are LIGHT, so normally you won't be able to trigger both via the fusion alone. But once again, you only have 1 way to directly give you advantage. Heavenly Wing's banish effect would still count as a slow advantage anyway, which is more acceptable. tl;dr version, you'll trigger the +1 either way with blessing or ascension and with it being hard OPT'd, it's all you get that turn, and BP restriction will be meaningless the turn you wouldn't want to use Ascension anyway. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cirrus Posted February 26, 2015 Report Share Posted February 26, 2015 Oh, no, I'm not saying you should necessarily stick with the Battle Phase restriction - it is absolutely a ham-fisted nerf. My beef was also not with the +1 part. I'm just proposing that Allure is a really good card and the inability to Xyz is a minor and largely pointless setback. As long as that's recognized and in line with your objectives, that's fine. EDIT: I guess you read my post moments before I went back and took a look at your monsters and re-edited. Ok, sorry. Feel free to re-read. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maeriberii Haan Posted February 26, 2015 Author Report Share Posted February 26, 2015 Aaaactually, I forgot that it doesn't even freaking have an OPT clause. I'll go fix that part first, then think of more ways to balance it if necessary. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maeriberii Haan Posted February 28, 2015 Author Report Share Posted February 28, 2015 Update: -Tempest of Heaven and Earth is no longer searchable and only negate Spells and Traps now. -Sacred Paradise only recycles on activation, but recycles up to 4. -I think I've fixed Blessing, I'll check again later. Will update the OP once changes are solidified. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maeriberii Haan Posted May 15, 2015 Author Report Share Posted May 15, 2015 Bump. I completely removed the so-called "refunder" refunding effects, and reworked some other things. Also added the current version of the Celestial Deletor/Deleted monsters to the OP. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VampireofDarkness Posted May 23, 2015 Report Share Posted May 23, 2015 From testing against this Deck, I have some legitimate concerns over how much it can recycle. The Deck literally has a loop where you can Xyz every turn and if the opponent doesn't have the resources, they are literally stuck in a process where Swift Scarecrow eliminates their Battle Phase and Celestials will Castel everything away. It literally is a joke how much of a good grind game it can do and take the game much longer than it should. Suggestion: Gradation should not be able to tribute a Non Celestial monster, this is what drives the ridiculous loops that I feel to be highly concerning because you can tribute the Xyz etc etc. If we could have correct updates for these, I could give more feedback, but something about this loop needs to be revised Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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