Maeriberii Haan Posted January 8, 2015 Report Share Posted January 8, 2015 Once per turn, you place 1 Anchor Counter and 1 Dread Counter to any card on the field. You can detach 1 Xyz material on this card to activate any of the following effects: ● Remove all Anchor Counters on the field to return all cards on the field with a Dread Anchor to the owner's hand. ● Remove all Dread Counters on the field to banish all cards on the field with an Anchor Counter. ● Banish this card and another card on your hand and Remove all Dread Counters and Anchor Counters to special summon as many level 4 or lower WATER monsters less than the number of Dread Counters and Anchor Counters removed. (MAX 3) Well, this is either a bouncer, banisher, or swarmer that might or might not target due to the faulty wording on the effect. With Swordmistress, this, SH ARK, and Castel, R4 seems to have all kind of non-destruction removal available to it. Discuss? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AGATHODAIMON BANGTAIL COW Posted January 8, 2015 Report Share Posted January 8, 2015 I feel like it just completely outclasses #101 and Castel in their occupation, then adds insult to injury by having more ATK than most of the other Rank 4s (there's DRXD and a few others, but for the most part Rank 4s tend to stay in the 18-23 range). Banishing is easily more effective than the kinds of removal that Shark Knight and Castel offer, and since you're dishing out two possible effects at the same time, [acronym='Presuming that this card can place the counters on two different cards. If the counters both have to be placed on one card, then this doesn't really apply as much.']it's also harder to counter outside of cards that affect this card such as BTS. The bounce is ideally used to re-use OPT effects or bounce dead CotHs/Chains back to your hand, though you could also bounce another of your opponent's monsters if the one you were looking to banish gets tacked with some sort of immunity, though what I don't know since this technically doesn't target.[/acronym] Regardless of where both counters go, it also has the chance to banish two monsters, provided it survives a turn, whereas the other NDR Rank 4s can only get one kill off without having to resort to (currently bad) material attaching cards. I also feel really iffy on the swarming effect, even though it's really slow, non-generic, and costly, but this is probably due to the notoriety of sudden-swarm cards in the past, like Soul Charge and Rekindling. Overall, I feel like it simply does too much too well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cirrus Posted January 8, 2015 Report Share Posted January 8, 2015 It does too many things too quickly. The idea is okay but it's a generic rank 4 that outperforms any other 2-mat rank 4 in terms of removal power (possibly even Lightning Chidori). A hard inability to activate its effects the turn it's summoned should make it much more bearable to play against, if it's not outright ben(ch)ed. Where are the WATER monsters being summoned from anyway? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darj Posted January 8, 2015 Report Share Posted January 8, 2015 I have not tested this but it does look dangerous. And as ABC and Cirrus pointed out, the card text is not clear either. But even then, I agree that it does too many things and arguably outclasses fellow Rank4s with removal effects. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maeriberii Haan Posted January 9, 2015 Author Report Share Posted January 9, 2015 Hmm, so should we do a nerf or some sort? I'm honestly thinking of it giving 2 of one type of counters per turn, since right now, the counters doesn't really matter that much in effect, tbh. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VampireofDarkness Posted January 9, 2015 Report Share Posted January 9, 2015 It feels like there is some sort of loop with this card. I was thinking Zombies with Blue Blooded Oni and maybe Dewloren, then I was also thinking something in WATER Decks, but I can't seem to think of either. Point being is that this card is rather dangerous. I passed this card up when I first saw it because I was too confused by the whole counter thing, but now this thing just like NEEDS to be nerfed. I can already see enough shenanigans, possibly an OTK with recycling and honestly I want nothing to do with them. I don't know what the nerf should be, but it needs to happen Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cirrus Posted January 9, 2015 Report Share Posted January 9, 2015 I propose a one-turn delay on putting any counters anywhere as well as removal of the ability to randomly summon monsters from grave (although I think allowing summoning of level 4 or lower Aquas from grave, up to the number of Xyz Materials remaining, wouldn't be broken and would still retain flavor). Two counters of one type would make it able to remove 2 cards on the second turn, while you'd be able to remove only 1 card on the second turn with my proposed nerf. Others may have better ideas, however. Is the banishing effect even necessary? What if it did 1 material to bounce or SS? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darj Posted January 9, 2015 Report Share Posted January 9, 2015 With Castel, S.H.Ark and Swordmistress, I don't think we need another generic Rank4 remover. Since it is both a bouncer and a banisher, to keep its flavor an option could be to turn it into a Castel/Rhapsody hybrid that bounces 1 card from the field AND banishes 1 card from the grave, possibly at the cost of 1 material for each effect. Actually, now that I think about it, that way it would end up a lot like Ouroboros, and you may not want that since this would be seen as a "lite" version of it. Another option could be to give it a different Rank to give it a different niche, instead of fighting for space with Castel, S.H.ark, etc. Also you could remove the WATER support effect, since it feels kinda out of place. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cirrus Posted January 9, 2015 Report Share Posted January 9, 2015 Ah, that's right, it's generic. I recommend its exile from the gamestate altogether then. Or it could be made non-generic and then stay (probably with a nerf still but Aqua monsters are pretty mediocre already). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maeriberii Haan Posted January 9, 2015 Author Report Share Posted January 9, 2015 Oh, I've contacted Toyo about this. They're suggesting for turning this into WATER specific, and removing the last effect altogether. Though personally, I'd like for the counter system in this card to be reworked somehow. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darj Posted January 9, 2015 Report Share Posted January 9, 2015 Kinda off topic-but this reminds me of that Ice Barrier Rank4 I made a while ago; I could make its materials WATER specific to make it splashable in WATER Rank4 decks, but then it would end up a lot like this card. That aside, reworking the Counters would be cool because we rarely see Counter effects nowadays, but that's up to the card creator, I guess. Perhaps keep the Counters effects, bounce cards with Anchor counters OPT, and banish cards with Dread Counters if they would be sent to the Graveyard? For instance (effect simplified because laziness): OPT: You can target 2 cards on the field; place 1 Anchor Counter on 1 of those targets, and 1 Dread Counter on the other target. Target 1 card with an Anchor counter on it: bounce it. If a card with a Dread Counter on it would be sent to the grave, banish it instead. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maeriberii Haan Posted January 9, 2015 Author Report Share Posted January 9, 2015 That would work well, yeah. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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