VampireofDarkness Posted January 6, 2015 Report Share Posted January 6, 2015 Since my departure from the game (Post-TeleDAD), the general Dark Counterpart Deck (Sometimes referred to as RDDT) has lost its touch and effectiveness, as it took a little while to setup your sudden rushes, which no one has time for in this game. This Deck was made to kinda fix that, while still leaving some general weakness. What once was Veil and Allure of Darkness accompanied by the D Draw and Grepher engines is now replaced by Rituals that protect Rank 4s, which setup to eventually build up to your big field makers, such as The Dark Creator, Dark Nephtys, and Rainbow Dark Dragon in the right build. The Deck itself has a very diverse setup, being able to use the Deck as a toolbox and being able to determine the amount of damage you are doing. However, the biggest weaknesses of the Deck are the Deck's biggest strengths. You put a solid field on board, but once you lose it, game over. You can send from the Deck to Ritual Summon, but it also leaves to bricking where the cards you want to send are instead stuck in your hand. Before I ramble on more on this, I should probably explain more by showing the Deck itself: [Spoiler Deck Profile] [/spoiler] [Spoiler Decklist] 3 Grandmaster of the Darkness 2 Alector, the Soverign of Darkness 2 Dark Ghoulungulate 2 Abyssleed of the Dark 2 The Venus of Dark 2 Dark Manju 2 Dark Senju 2 Sonic Dark Bird 2 Plaguespreader Zombie Dark Grepher Shaddoll Falco Shaddoll Dragon Shaddoll Beast Lich Lord, King of the Underworld Diabolos, King of the Abyss (Still haven't decided how I feel about this card. On one hand, it can be very inconsistent, and the plays you make with it aren't quite advantageous unless you have Preparation or have Venus on board, and it makes you even more vulnerable to Mirror Force, etc. However, when you get it on board early and effective enough, you can affix the game practically) Dark Nephtys The Dark Creator 3 Dark Ceremony 3 Darkness Invitation 3 Preparation of Rites 2 Dark Ceremony 2 Reinforcement of the Army Castel, the Avian Skyblaster Number 101: SIlent Honor ARK Evilswarm Exciton Knight Trap Engineer Vivyzian Absol the Emissary of Disaster Dark Champion - Kusunagi Dark Tiger King - Songhu Hachi the Magical Crow Poker Joker Yarliqueen Reaper Princess - Mithra Constellar Ptolemy M7 2 Fiendish Joker Void Ogre Dragon Giratina, the Void Creation Dragon Dark Ghoulungulate Demise, King of Armageddon (Going to start experimenting with this card. This card + Preparation is game more than likely, but not sure how consistent the rest of the plays are with this) Gorz the Emissary of Darkness 3 Book of Eclipse 2 Shaddoll Fusion (I may actually take this out. Usually when I side this in, I already am in a good position or I use up my Shaddolls for the first turn Grand and Ghoulungulate play. However, in this particular build where Venus is live, it still is useful so idk) Heaven or Hell 3 Dark Crystal Sealing El Shaddoll Winda (See Shaddoll Fusion) Devourer of Unfortunate Souls (I wanted to run this, but the problem is I no longer have that much destruction. Might actually take it out unless I add in a Raigeki) Drascension the Dragon of the Dark Sky (Absol replaces this card for the most part, so might drop it) [/spoiler] [Spoiler Summary] This is the current version of the build I used in the tournament. As you can see, there is a full engine (the monsters after Dharc) focused on getting the Rituals out and not having to suffer TOO much from using the Deck (Unlike Nekroz, the Ritual Spells don't lead to quite as much stupid and you don't get to abuse Nyarla, which makes the Deck less consistent). Beast, Lich, Dragon, and Diabolos (The latter when I lack the tributes) are all dead in the hand. The Dark Creator and Nephtys are sturdy cards for when the Mirror Force and well timed (Keyword Well Timed) Torrential comes in that this Deck is VERY susceptible to. Dark Nephtys also doubles as your only backrow destruction alongside Dragon. (Which usually only drops Turn 1) Generally what your main goal is, however is to pump out Rank 4s with Grand and use them to contain the board between that and the other Ritual you'll usually have on board. On rare occassions, you'll be able to build these up turn after turn like a real aggro Deck, but usually you burn through your hand and/or resources unless you have Preparation. As for the Extra Deck itself, it again is mostly control based, kinda like Shaddolls and their Fusions. Somewhat straightforward really. Absol and Giratina have really shined with my recent adding of them, with Absol being a phenomenal first turn play, and Giratina getting rid of the bigger beaters and defending against the unexpected ones. Hachi rids of inherent Special Summons, preventing Castel and 101 from removing the Ritual off the board. Kusunagi and Vivyzian deal with Traps, Songhu deals with Monster effects. Though Poker Joker isn't NEARLY as broken as it once was, it's still a nice "Going for game" card, and Ptolemy just sets up SO. MANY. COMBOS. Fiendish Joker and Void Ogre are self explanatory, though Joker is mostly used as an M7 material really. [/spoiler] [Spoiler Effect Monsters] [Spoiler Dark Senju] 4/DARK/Fairy 1400/1000 When this card is Summoned, you can add 1 DARK Ritual Monster to your hand. During the End Phase, if this card is used for the Ritual Summon of a DARK monster this turn, you can target 1 DARK monster in you Graveyard; Add 1 DARK monster from your Deck to your hand with the same level, but not with the same name. You can only activate this effect of "Dark Senju" once per turn. [/spoiler] [Spoiler Sonic Dark Bird] 4/DARK/Winged Beast 1400/1000 When this card is Summoned, you can add 1 "Dark" or "Darkness" Ritual Spell Card from your Deck to your hand. During the End Phase, if this card is used for the Ritual Summon of a DARK monster this turn, you can target 1 banished DARK monster you control whose Level is equal to or lower than that of the Ritual monster, except "Sonic Dark Bird"; Add that target to your hand. You can only activate this effect of "Sonic Dark Bird" once per turn. [/spoiler] [Spoiler Dark Manju] 4/DARK/Fairy 1400/1000 When this card is Summoned, you can activate one of the following effects: - Reveal 1 DARK Ritual Monster in your hand. Add 1 Ritual Spell Card from your Deck to your hand - Reveal 1 Ritual Spell Card in your hand. Add 1 DARK Ritual Monster from your Deck to your hand. During the End Phase, if this card was Tributed for the Ritual Summon of a DARK monster this turn, you can target 1 DARK Ritual Monster or Ritual Spell Card sent to the Graveyard this turn; Add that target to your hand. You can only use this effect of "Dark Manju" once per turn. [/spoiler] [/spoiler] [Spoiler Ritual Monsters] [Spoiler Grandmaster of the Darkness] 4/DARK/Warrior 2100/800 Can be Ritual Summoned with any "Dark" or "Darkness" Ritual Spell Card. When this card is Ritual Summoned: You can send 1 monster from your hand or Deck to the Graveyard; add 1 "Dark" monster with the same Type, ATK and DEF than that monster from your Deck or Graveyard to your hand. If this card is discarded or banished to activate a DARK monster's effect: You can draw 1 card. Credit to -Noel- for making this card and essentially making the Deck go round [/spoiler] [Spoiler Dark Ghoulungulate] 5/DARK/Zombie 2500/1700 You can Ritual Summon this card with any "Dark" or "Darkness" Ritual Spell Card. During either player's turn, if this card is in your Graveyard and exactly 1 DARK monster you control and no other monster(s) would be destroyed (by battle or by card effect) or targeted by a card effect, except the turn this card is sent to the Graveyard, you can banish this card instead. Once per turn, during either player's turn, when exactly 1 DARK monster you control and no other monster(s) would be destroyed (by battle or by card effect) or targeted by a card effect, you can banish 1 DARK monster from your Graveyard instead. [/spoiler] [Spoiler Alector, the Dark Soverign] 6/DARK/Winged Beast 2400/2000 You can Ritual Summon this card with "Dark Ceremony". You can discard this card and 1 "Dark" or "Darkness" monster; add 1 "Dark" or "Darkness" monster from your Deck to your hand, except "Dark Armed Dragon". Once per turn, during your Main Phase, you can target up to 2 monsters your opponent controls with the same Attribute; their effects are negated until the end of the turn. Once per turn, during your opponent's Main Phase, you can target 1 monster your opponent controls; Its effects are negated until the end of the turn. [/spoiler] [Spoiler Abyssleed of the Dark] You can Ritual Summon this card with any "Dark" or "Darkness" Ritual Spell Card. You can discard this card and 1 "Dark" or "Darkness" monster; add 1 "Dark" or "Darkness" Spell/Trap Card from your Deck to your hand. You can tribute 1 face-up Attack Position DARK monster; Select and activate one of the following effects: - This card can make a second attack each Battle Phase this turn - Send one random card from your opponent's hand to the Graveyard Each effect of "Abyssleed of the Dark" can only be activated once per turn [/spoiler] [Spoiler The Venus of Dark] 8/DARK/Fairy 2800/2400 You can Ritual Summon this card with any "Dark" or "Darkness" Ritual Spell Card. At the start of your Main Phase 1, you can discard this card; While you only control DARK monsters, (if any) your opponent cannot activate cards or effects this turn, until the end of your Main Phase 1. During your opponent's Main Phase and Battle Phase, decrease the ATK of your opponent's monsters by 200 for each DARK monster you control. The activation of "Dark" and "Darkness" Spell and Trap Cards cannot be negated. [/spoiler] [Spoiler Infernal Dark Emperor] 9/DARK/Pyro 2700/1600 You can Ritual Summon this card with any "Dark" or "Darkness" Ritual Spell Card. At the start of your Battle Phase. you can discard this card; All "Dark" or "Darkness" monsters you control are changed to face-up Attack Position and must attack, if able, and if they do, your opponent cannot activate cards and effects until the end of the Battle Phase. When this card is Ritual Summoned, you can banish up to 5 DARK monsters in your Graveyard, and if you do, destroy a number of Spell/Trap Cards on the field equal to the number of monsters banish for this effect. I never really used this card, and it's because the Level 9 DARK monsters out there are very Deck specific, and don't synergize with this Deck at all. Either way, you only want 5 Rituals at most. [/spoiler] [Spoiler Kaokuma, the Absolute of Darkness] 10/DARK/Fiend 3250/2550 You can Ritual Summon this card with any "Dark" or "Darkness" Ritual Spell Card. You can discard this card and 1 "Dark" monster in your hand; Add 1 "Dark" or "Darkness" card from your Graveyard to your hand. When this card is Ritual Summoned, target 1 card your opponent controls; Banish it, and if you do, check all cards in your opponent's hand, field, and Graveyard, and banish all copies of that card. You can only activate each effect of "Kaokuma, the Absolute of Darkness" once per turn. I changed the effect of this card after all my matches. I'm working on a build that uses this card over Venus and focuses on Rainbow Dark Dragon, but honestly I'm not as content with the playstyle for now. At request, I can post the Deck Profile based on such. [/spoiler] [/spoiler] [Spoiler Extra Deck] [Spoiler Synchros] [Spoiler Fiendish Joker] 6/DARK/Fiend 2500/2100 1 DARK Tuner + 1 or more Non-Tuner DARK monsters (This card is always treated as a "Dark" monster) When this card is Synchro Summoned, your opponent discards 1 card from their hand, and if you do, discard 1 card from your hand (if any). Cards discarded by this card's effect(s) are negated. Each time a player draws a card(s) or adds a card(s) from their Deck to their hand, that player must discard 1 card. During each of your End Phases, banish 1 monster from your Graveyard that was used to Synchro Summon this card. If you cannot, banish this card. When this card is removed from the field, return the monster(s) banished by this card's effect to your Graveyard. [/spoiler] [Spoiler Dark Dragon Assailant - Trident] 7/DARK/Dragon 2400/1700 1 DARK Tuner + 1 or more Non-Tuner "Dark" monsters Once per turn, you can banish 1 "Dark" monster from your Graveyard to look at your opponent's Extra Deck; Send 1 card with an equal Level/Rank as the Level/Rank of the banished monster to the Graveyard. I had this in my Side Deck in the tournament, but honestly I didn't get around to playing it. The Level is too inflexible for this Deck [/spoiler] [Spoiler Chevalier de Fluer Sombres] 8/DARK/Warrior 2700/2300 1 DARK Tuner + 1 or more Non-Tuner "Dark" monsters (This card is always treated as a "Dark" monster) Once per turn, during your turn, when your opponent activates a Spell or Trap Card, you can banish 1 "Dark" monster from your Graveyard to negate the activation and destroy that card. [/spoiler] [Spoiler Drascension, the Dragon of the Dark Sky] 10/DARK/Dragon ?/3000 1 DARK Tuner + 1 or more "Dark" Non-Tuner monsters If this card is Synchro Summoned: It gains 800 ATK for each "Dark" monster in your Graveyard with a different name. (max 4000 ATK) When this card you control is destroyed by your opponent's card (by battle or by card effect) and sent to your Graveyard, you can Special Summon "Dark" monsters from your Graveyard whose total levels equal 10 or lower, but they are banished when they leave the field. You can only use this effect of "Drascension, the Dragon of the Dark Sky" once per turn. [/spoiler] [/spoiler] [Spoiler Xyz] [Spoiler Dark Tiger King - Songhu] 4/DARK/Beast Warrior 2200/1800 2 Level 4 "Dark" or "Darkness" monsters When this card is Xyz Summoned: You can add 1 "Dark" or "Darkness" Spell/Trap Card from your Deck to your hand. Once per turn: You can detach 1 Xyz Material from this card; negate the effects of all face-up Effect Monsters currently on the field, except "Dark" monsters, until the end of your opponent's turn. When this card is sent from the field to the Graveyard: You can banish 3 "Dark" or "Darkness" Spell/Trap Cards from your Graveyard; Special Summon 2 Level 4 or lower "Dark" or "Darkness" monsters with the same ATK from your Deck, in face-up Defense Position. [/spoiler] [Spoiler Dark Champion - Kusunagi] 4/DARK/Warrior 2500/2400 2 Level 4 "Dark" Monsters This card must be Xyz Summoned using at least 1 Ritual monster. Once per turn, during either player's turn, when a Trap Card is activated: You can detach 1 Xyz Material from this card; negate the activation, and if you do, destroy it, then banish 1 DARK monster from your Graveyard. [/spoiler] [/spoiler] [/spoiler] [Spoiler Ritual Spells] [Spoiler Dark Ceremony] This card is used to Ritual Summon any DARK or "Dark" monster. You must also Tribute DARK monsters from your field, hand, or exactly 1 DARK monster from your deck whose Levels exactly equal the Level of the Ritual Monster you Ritual Summon. You can only activate 1 "Dark Ceremony" per turn. [/spoiler] [Spoiler Dark Ceremony 2] This card is used to Ritual Summon any DARK or "Dark" monster. You must also Tribute DARK monsters from your field, hand, or banish "Dark" monsters from your Graveyard whose Levels exactly equal the Level of the Ritual Monster you Ritual Summon. You can only activate 1 "Dark Ceremony 2" per turn. [/spoiler] [Spoiler Darkness Invitation] This card is used to Ritual Summon any "Dark" or "Darkness" monster. You must also Tribute DARK monsters from your hand or field whose total Levels equal the Level of the Ritual Monster you Ritual Summon or more. When a DARK monster is sent to your Graveyard: You can banish this card and another monster from your Graveyard; add 1 "Dark" monster with the same Type, ATK and DEF than that banished monster from your Deck or Graveyard to your hand. Again, I didn't make this one, thanks -Noel- for doing so. I don't actually get the other effect off that much, but hey, it exists [/spoiler] [/spoiler] [Spoiler Additional Support] [Spoiler Returning from Darkness] Return 1 DARK monster from your Graveyard to your hand, then banish 1 DARK monster from your Graveyard of the same card type (Normal, Effect, Ritual) Tried running this card, actually, but didn't have the space. If anyone has a suggestion, I'd like to hear it [/spoiler] [Spoiler Dark Crystal Sealing] Activate only when your opponent activates a Spell or Trap and you control a "Dark" monster. Negate it's activation and Set the Spell or Trap, then target 1 "Dark" monster you control. Your opponent cannot activate the Set card. Destroy this card when the targeted monster is removed from the field. [/spoiler] [/spoiler] CnC, comments, Deck/Card suggestions, and/or Opinions are all much appreciated! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darj Posted January 6, 2015 Report Share Posted January 6, 2015 To be honest, I'm not a fan of making more Dark counterparts as Rituals. So far all Dark Counterparts have been Effect Monsters that don't belong to an archetype, with a few exceptions such as Zerato, but his case is more for its backstory and flavor purposes (fallen angel and all of that); and Horus and Armed Dragon, which are not exactly an archetype because they are the same monsters at different stages. So, in a way, making them as Rituals AND including archetype monsters such as Abyssleed and Ghoulungulate feels distasteful. The names of the Ritual Spells are kinda bland, specifically "Dark Ceremony 2", and the inverted artworks look lazy, but I get that you won't find alternate DARK artworks of those monsters anytime soon, so your solution is understandable, and better than no pic at all. Flavor aside, the archetype looks solid, except for a couple of problem cards here and there that I have already brought up in chat. For instance: - The milling effect of Dark Ceremony. It is basically a foolish Burial for Deck, and will trigger monsters that want to be sent to the grave, such as the teched Shaddolls. - Ghoulungulate does too much. - I have not seen Venus in action, but after reading its effect I realized its hand-trap is dangerous: It allows you to make your plays during your MP1 without interruptions. Really, you could even tech this on other decks so you can go combo-crazy without fear. For instance, Synchron Quasars, X-Sabers, etc. The more I look at the archetype, the more it resembles Necloths than an LS-spammy archetype. Not sure if this is a right direction because I wouldn't like a DARK Necloth deck in the DP metagame. I suggest to drop down the hand-trap effects on the Ritual Monsters, and focus on +0 Ritual Summons, not unlike Shaddolls. On the deck you posted, my suggestions are to try to max ROTA because you have several targets, including Grandmaster, and cut the number of monsters too: 29 monsters look cloggy, and you do mention that some of them indeed clogged in the hand. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VampireofDarkness Posted January 6, 2015 Author Report Share Posted January 6, 2015 To be honest, I'm not a fan of making more Dark counterparts as Rituals. So far all Dark Counterparts have been Effect Monsters that don't belong to an archetype, with a few exceptions such as Zerato, but his case is more for its backstory and flavor purposes (fallen angel and all of that); and Horus and Armed Dragon, which are not exactly an archetype because they are the same monsters at different stages. So, in a way, making them as Rituals AND including archetype monsters such as Abyssleed and Ghoulungulate feels distasteful. The names of the Ritual Spells are kinda bland, specifically "Dark Ceremony 2", and the inverted artworks look lazy, but I get that you won't find alternate DARK artworks of those monsters anytime soon, so your solution is understandable, and better than no pic at all. Flavor aside, the archetype looks solid, except for a couple of problem cards here and there that I have already brought up in chat. For instance: - The milling effect of Dark Ceremony. It is basically a foolish Burial for Deck, and will trigger monsters that want to be sent to the grave, such as the teched Shaddolls. - Ghoulungulate does too much. - I have not seen Venus in action, but after reading its effect I realized its hand-trap is dangerous: It allows you to make your plays during your MP1 without interruptions. Really, you could even tech this on other decks so you can go combo-crazy without fear. For instance, Synchron Quasars, X-Sabers, etc. The more I look at the archetype, the more it resembles Necloths than an LS-spammy archetype. Not sure if this is a right direction because I wouldn't like a DARK Necloth deck in the DP metagame. I suggest to drop down the hand-trap effects on the Ritual Monsters, and focus on +0 Ritual Summons, not unlike Shaddolls. On the deck you posted, my suggestions are to try to max ROTA because you have several targets, including Grandmaster, and cut the number of monsters too: 29 monsters look cloggy, and you do mention that some of them indeed clogged in the hand. I think I mentioned before that Ceremony is actually quite necessary to run multiple levels. It also is why you run 28 monsters (6 being dedicated to Ceremony itself). The thing about Necloth is they can go into the Extra Deck for resources, so they technically have no reason to care about Effect Monsters beyond ones that search or allow them to plus. That's part of why it's so consistent. With the Dark Counteparts, just like its Deck or any Deck that runs the Dark counterparts in general, you have to have an engine to really get it going. (Not just sitting on a 2600 defender then lock your opponent out with a triple banisher the following turn) That's where the multiple monsters come in. Grepher/Dharc was the way to go this time around because it would allow you speed things up, go into the Grand, get the Ghoul, Poker Joker to drop the Ghoul, and so on. Now it's a little more extensive, and you instead rely on containing the board since you can't play Infernity. However, the common thing with both the Poker Joker-DAD Turbo and the Venus Control builds is because you run what you do, you're gonna have to have some luck to have a hand that doesn't have missing pieces, which is where you use the engine to get yourself out of whatever bad hand you have. TLDR: Ceremony is just as much of a +0 as it is a reason why the chance of bricking occurs, so it's a double edged sword to really kill it Also, I'll look at Ghoul, but I've never found him explicitly to be a problem. The fact that it's a near required card Turn 1 is also a backfire cause you only have 1 or 2 DARKs by then, and since it doesn't survive Torrential/Mirror Force/Raigeki, usually it dies by Turn 4, to which it becomes not that great when you want to go into Absol and Hachi before establishing another Ghoulungulate. As for Venus, I can DEFINITELY fix that. I can just make it a MP1 version of her own effect while on board. Really between her and Ghoulungulate, they are just effects to fix problems, not to have the Necloth treatment. I haven't used the effect cause usually, your goal is to get Venus on board later in the game when your opponent has less resources and take quick control of the game. That's why in the new build I run 2 Level 8s. Venus is what Rainbow Dark Dragon was to the Dark Counterpart Deck itself back in the day. It's that thing you build up to while you're Rank 4ing away resources. As for ROTAs, as I mentioned earlier, you rely on an engine within this, and the engine is why you can't really run a ton of Non-Ritual Related Spells. I am thinking about revamping it slightly, but so far, my consistency has been the main issue Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darj Posted January 6, 2015 Report Share Posted January 6, 2015 Problem with Ghoul is that it has 3 effects, which is really pushing it in my opinion; the card, literally, does too much. Not going to lie, in my opinion 3 effects is the limit number of effects a card can have, but only when at least 1 of them is either passive (e.g. the "entire Tribute" clauses of Darzorcs, immunities) or too weak or situational to have an actual impact; but in the case of Ghoul, its 3 effects are active, so to speak, and will often result in 1-for-1s by spending the opponent's resources. The way I see it, Dark Ceremony is comparable to Kaleidomirror in that they take resources from the Deck and Extra Deck respectively and can generate pluses depending on the Tributes used. Of course, as you mentioned, Ceremony needs you to run resources in the main deck and that comes with inconsistency issues, while Kaleido doesn't care and just picks from the Extra, but in essence they work in the same way; then Ceremony 2 works like Exomirror by banishing Tributes from the grave. Hence my statement on the archetype resembling Necloths. Also, said inconsistencies could be fixed by running more Ritual Spell searchers, such as the original Manju and Sonic Bird; so once you figure out the numbers, the result may be en archetype that stands at the level of Necloths. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VampireofDarkness Posted January 6, 2015 Author Report Share Posted January 6, 2015 Problem with Ghoul is that it has 3 effects, which is really pushing it in my opinion; the card, literally, does too much. Not going to lie, in my opinion 3 effects is the limit number of effects a card can have, but only when at least 1 of them is either passive (e.g. the "entire Tribute" clauses of Darzorcs, immunities) or too weak or situational to have an actual impact; but in the case of Ghoul, its 3 effects are active, so to speak, and will often result in 1-for-1s by spending the opponent's resources. The way I see it, Dark Ceremony is comparable to Kaleidomirror in that they take resources from the Deck and Extra Deck respectively and can generate pluses depending on the Tributes used. Of course, as you mentioned, Ceremony needs you to run resources in the main deck and that comes with inconsistency issues, while Kaleido doesn't care and just picks from the Extra, but in essence they work in the same way; then Ceremony 2 works like Exomirror by banishing Tributes from the grave. Hence my statement on the archetype resembling Necloths. Also, said inconsistencies could be fixed by running more Ritual Spell searchers, such as the original Manju and Sonic Bird; so once you figure out the numbers, the result may be en archetype that stands at the level of Necloths. Ceremony 2 was just more or less of an obvious card to me. It's a DARK Deck, you banish stuff, why can't the Rituals do that, but I see where you're coming from there. The searchers I've been attempting to run those cards actually, I find that I either draw all searchers or too many searchers in the opening hand, when you want to have at least a Nephtys, Dharc, or Strike Ninja so you'll have a play that doesn't require another card the following turn because you would have already setup said cards. My idea is actually maybe a Falco instead of a Plaguespreader, MAYBE killing Dharc altogether depending on results, and adding another ROTA, but after that I have no clue Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Love of Ghibli Posted January 7, 2015 Report Share Posted January 7, 2015 Yeah I see a lot of excessive...just a lot the constant OTK potential is so prevalent that I'm almost wondering on how you actually every lost. But brick hands are things. Out of all the red flags I think the only ones that I can't really look past are the Senju, Sonic and Manju. I did not realize that they were the Atlanteans of Dark monsters. They're all +1 on the summon....Okay fine rituals become -1 which is meh. The fact that all of them have: "or if this card was discarded or banished by or to activate the effect of a DARK monster." Is completely over the top. Cost should be cost, no questions asked. These things are completely over the line in that regard. I'm less offended with the Shadoll synergy (which is another red flag) than these plus engines. Looking back I agree with Voltex in terms of flavor. Taking members of an archetype and molding them solely for their good points doesn't seem right. But the deck is fun to play against in the sense that the amount of shenans it pulls out are always surprising. The major problem I had before was that it hand both massive field presence and massive hand advantage. Now the deck doesn't do that so I don't have a problem facing it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VampireofDarkness Posted January 7, 2015 Author Report Share Posted January 7, 2015 Yeah I see a lot of excessive...just a lot the constant OTK potential is so prevalent that I'm almost wondering on how you actually every lost. But brick hands are things. Out of all the red flags I think the only ones that I can't really look past are the Senju, Sonic and Manju. I did not realize that they were the Atlanteans of Dark monsters. They're all +1 on the summon....Okay fine rituals become -1 which is meh. The fact that all of them have: "or if this card was discarded or banished by or to activate the effect of a DARK monster." Is completely over the top. Cost should be cost, no questions asked. These things are completely over the line in that regard. I'm less offended with the Shadoll synergy (which is another red flag) than these plus engines. Looking back I agree with Voltex in terms of flavor. Taking members of an archetype and molding them solely for their good points doesn't seem right.But the deck is fun to play against in the sense that the amount of shenans it pulls out are always surprising. The major problem I had before was that it hand both massive field presence and massive hand advantage. Now the deck doesn't do that so I don't have a problem facing it.You actually don't get the effects off as much as you'd think. That's why no matter what build I run, I try to have some form of quick banishing, because getting those effects off can at times be scarce. There are times when you can do shenanigans with them a bit, but others you want to but you just can't. Several times I try to banish because then I could get Bird's effect off, but then either I end up doing really bad plays or it just don't happen. Because your recovery as a result of such factors is so varied throughout each duel, it was a major factor as to why my wining streak was not quite 2-0 everything. A lot of people overestimated the consistency and/or the potential for comeback. I didn't always open up "THE NUTS" and as a result, sometimes I had to fight to get my OTKs off. Sometimes, my opponent just slowly poked out the field I had before I could start playing Infernity, and thus ended up losing that way. Sky Conquerors and Railroad Machines both won off of this and Crags, IceBurn, and Wings all came close, losing only to me having the appropriate Side Deck really A note as well that it tends to be that most "Battle the Boss Monsters" Decks tend to be fun to play against because of what they can do. I find that to be that way for most of the Decks here, and is one reason I find this DP Format to be a little better in the TCG. You're not just Fire Lake GG or Towers GG, you're actually establishing your beatsticks to go out against other beatsticks. Even for your own Archlords, this applies with having to go against all the bosses. (Well, except Kristya) It becomes a trade off of tactics rather than sack Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Love of Ghibli Posted January 7, 2015 Report Share Posted January 7, 2015 Okay just because you don't happen to get them off as much as you could doesn't make them any less ridiculous. The fact that they eliminate cost for DARK monsters is the problem. And btw I don't think your practical plays isn't a very fair factor when determining if something is balanced. The deck has 14 searchers/controlled mills. You don't have to open up "The NUTS" you just have to not open up with a brick hand. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VampireofDarkness Posted January 7, 2015 Author Report Share Posted January 7, 2015 Okay just because you don't happen to get them off as much as you could doesn't make them any less ridiculous. The fact that they eliminate cost for DARK monsters is the problem. And btw I don't think your practical plays isn't a very fair factor when determining if something is balanced. The deck has 14 searchers/controlled mills. You don't have to open up "The NUTS" you just have to not open up with a brick hand. I understand that, but I'm explaining why it wasn't quite as much of a blowout. Yes, it is a tad bit excessive, especially considering Preparation is at 3 and Dharc/Strike Ninja is a thing. Perhaps just "By the effect" of a DARK monster? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Love of Ghibli Posted January 7, 2015 Report Share Posted January 7, 2015 Personally I would say they only get those secondary bonus effects if they are used in the Ritual Summon of a Dark monster. That would help out Dark Ritual monsters and leave out helping ever DARK monster with a semblance of balance in its effect. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VampireofDarkness Posted January 7, 2015 Author Report Share Posted January 7, 2015 Personally I would say they only get those secondary bonus effects if they are used in the Ritual Summon of a Dark monster. That would help out Dark Ritual monsters and leave out helping ever DARK monster with a semblance of balance in its effect. That works actually. That also supports the whole +0 Ritual Summon thing. Also, that frees up space since Strike Ninja is no longer amazing. Will get on that on here and once DP starts working again. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darj Posted January 7, 2015 Report Share Posted January 7, 2015 Just want to point out that I'm with Lonely on this one: the 2nd effects of Senju/Manju/Sonic Bird working when used as cost of a DARK monster was really pushing it, and the cards were easily abused by making plays like: 1. Discard for a DARK effect to get a search. 2. Banish that same card from the grave for a DARK effect and get another search. I agree with the suggestion of enabling said effects only when the monsters are used as Tribute for a Ritual Summon of a DARK monster, although they would still retain the play of: 1. Normal Summon that monster to search for a Ritual Spell/Monster. 2. Use that same monster as Tribute for a Ritual and get a search. For this reason, I think it would be fair to add a Shaddoll-like hard OPT clause on them: You can only use 1 X effect per turn, and only once that turn. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VampireofDarkness Posted January 7, 2015 Author Report Share Posted January 7, 2015 Just want to point out that I'm with Lonely on this one: the 2nd effects of Senju/Manju/Sonic Bird working when used as cost of a DARK monster was really pushing it, and the cards were easily abused by making plays like: 1. Discard for a DARK effect to get a search. 2. Banish that same card from the grave for a DARK effect and get another search. I agree with the suggestion of enabling said effects only when the monsters are used as Tribute for a Ritual Summon of a DARK monster, although they would still retain the play of: 1. Normal Summon that monster to search for a Ritual Spell/Monster. 2. Use that same monster as Tribute for a Ritual and get a search. For this reason, I think it would be fair to add a Shaddoll-like hard OPT clause on them: You can only use 1 X effect per turn, and only once that turn.Actually, you can only use the effect once per turn. I never actually pulled off such play, nor could I actually do that. The other play you speak of is very contradictory to the Deck's strategy of spamming Rank 4s. I've yet to tribute from the field outside of maybe a Plaguespreader Zombie. I can do the clause thing, no problem at all, but I'm just saying it'd be rather pointless Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Valkyrus Posted January 7, 2015 Report Share Posted January 7, 2015 I won't say much about the cards since I think others have already said everything (I only have a problem with Ghoulungulate. Also, Venus is like a better Denko Sekka that can be activated from hand (and is splashable)) For ratios- you should probably not run so many 1-ofs and 2-ofs. You only have 4 cards you've maxed out and only 1 of them is a monster. I suggest you max out the ritual spell/monster searchers and drop most of the 1-of techs. I think the shaddolls are unneeded. Shaddoll Dragon is understandable but Beast could be replaced by any of the searchers with close to the same effect. You could tech some trap stuns/royal decrees/wiretaps/MSTs or just balance out Venus's eff somehow and putting her at 3 (see the design approach of Dance Princess of the Necloth). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VampireofDarkness Posted January 7, 2015 Author Report Share Posted January 7, 2015 I won't say much about the cards since I think others have already said everything (I only have a problem with Ghoulungulate. Also, Venus is like a better Denko Sekka that can be activated from hand (and is splashable)) For ratios- you should probably not run so many 1-ofs and 2-ofs. You only have 4 cards you've maxed out and only 1 of them is a monster. I suggest you max out the ritual spell/monster searchers and drop most of the 1-of techs. I think the shaddolls are unneeded. Shaddoll Dragon is understandable but Beast could be replaced by any of the searchers with close to the same effect. You could tech some trap stuns/royal decrees/wiretaps/MSTs or just balance out Venus's eff somehow and putting her at 3 (see the design approach of Dance Princess of the Necloth). I could see how that works. At the very least, that seems like "Side Card against Side Cards" strategy, which would be very needed games 2 and 3. Also Beast is used because unless you have that, your only way of summoning Ghoulungulate is by sending Ghoulungulate, which isn't THAT good of a play because you have no backup if you exhaust that Ghoul. This is partially why I tried to run Return, and applies to the other techs like Lich and Creator. I've been trying to work on Venus, actually, but my main issue is trying to get it so Turn 1 Vanity isn't the end of the Duel. That's what the card is meant to do. It gets things through because the Deck REALLY relies on getting a good start. Absol and Ghoulungulate really help, sometimes Venus if you can protect it, but yeah, that may be the way to go and run more "Side against Side" cards Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VampireofDarkness Posted January 9, 2015 Author Report Share Posted January 9, 2015 Updated Senju, Manju, and Bird, fixed Ghoul's eff outside of the field so it only activates in the Graveyard (Something I might do with Venus if I can find a way to make it work), and gave a clause to Venus's hand eff Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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