Self-Destruct Button Posted January 6, 2015 Report Share Posted January 6, 2015 The Sky Conquerors started off with the Idea of an Archetype that makes the normal Polymerization much more viable, as I was a bit disappointed by Fluffals. As Polymerization has no Once per Turn-Restriction, I guessed it would be good to let all recovery effects (except for a few chosen ones) kick off in the End Phase, so you basically get one Fusion at a time and MAYBE an additional rank 3 or rank 4. The Deck is quite versatile - You have 6 different Fusions you can go in, some with utility and some with gamewinner-effects, you can go into Synchros with Spirit of the Sky Conquerors (which maintains your advantage as you get the Effects of the Fusions when being sent to the graveyard- even by Synchro Summon), Rank 3s are very possibly with a small Tour Guide + Vamp of the Sky Conquerors + Scarm, Malebranche of the Burning Abyss - Engine and Vamp herself enables Rank 4s when being used as Fusion Material or detached from an Xyz Monster. It can play offensive with Chaos Monsters such as BLS and the newly errata'd CED (lol) or defensive if you decide to nail in a bunch of Traps. I really liked playing with the Deck, and it will be around public on DP very soon. Angel and Shard are the last cards that remind of the Trap Dodging aspect the deck had pre-balancinc, i'd like to keep it on them as a reminder. So, enough with talking, here are the cards: [spoiler='Main Deck'] [spoiler='Vamp of the Sky Conquerors'] Lore: When this card is Normal Summoned: You can target 1 set Spell/Trap card on the field; return it to the hand. If this card is sent to the Graveyard as Xyz Material or as Fusion Material: Special Summon 1 Level 4 "Sky Conquerors" monster from your Graveyard, and if you do, you cannot Fusion Summon for the rest of this turn.[/spoiler] [spoiler='Lance of the Sky Conquerors'] Lore: When this card is Normal Summoned: You can add 1 "Polymerization" from your deck to your hand. If this card is in the Graveyard while you control a "Sky Conquerors" Fusion Monster, during either players turn: You can banish this card from your Graveyard; Fusion Monsters you control cannot be destroyed by card effects this turn.[/spoiler] [spoiler='Shard of the Sky Conquerors'] Lore: When this card is Normal Summoned: You can add 1 Warrior-Type "Sky Conquerors" monster from your Deck to your hand. If this card is sent to the Graveyard as Fusion Material, during the End Phase: You can add 1 "Sky Conquerors" monster from your Deck to your hand. You can only use 1 effect of "Shard of the Sky Conquerors", and only once that turn. [/spoiler] [spoiler='Flare of the Sky Conquerors'] Lore: When this card is Normal Summoned: You can add 1 Winged Beast-Type "Sky Conquerors" monster from your Deck to your hand. If this card is sent to the Graveyard as Fusion Material, during the End Phase: You can add 1 Level 4 or lower non-tuner monster with 0 DEF from your Deck to your hand. You can only use 1 "Flare of the Sky Conquerors" effect per turn, and only once that turn.[/spoiler] [spoiler='Angel of the Sky Conquerors'] Lore: When this card is Normal Summoned, you can declare 1 Attribute: This card becomes the declared Attribute until the End Phase. Once per turn, when a Trap Card is activated: You can banish this card until your next Standby Phase. If this card is sent to the graveyard as Fusion Material: Draw 1 card. You can only use this effect of "Angel of the Sky Conquerors" once per turn.[/spoiler] [spoiler='Sky Charge'] Lore: (This card is always treated as a "Sky Conquerors" card.) Return 1 face-up "Sky Conquerors" Fusion monster you control to the Extra Deck; Special Summon 1 "Sky Conquerors" Fusion monster from your Extra Deck with a different Attribute than the returned monster, but it cannot attack this turn.[/spoiler] [/spoiler] [spoiler='Fusions'] [spoiler='Aegis of the Sky Conquerors'] Lore: 1 "Sky Conquerors" monster + 1 Winged Beast-Type monster When your opponent activates a Spell/Trap card that targets a "Sky Conquerors" monster you control: You can discard 1 "Sky Conquerors" card; negate the activation, and if you do, destroy that card. If this card is sent to the Graveyard: Draw 1 card, and if you do, you can add 1 "Polymerization" from your Graveyard to your hand.[/spoiler] [spoiler='Thornpike of the Sky Conquerors'] Lore: 1 "Sky Conquerors" monster + 1 Winged Beast-Type monster When this card is Fusion Summoned: Add 1 "Polymerization" from your Graveyard to your hand. You can discard 1 "Polymerization": Add 1 "Sky Conquerors" monster from your deck to your hand. This card cannot be destroyed by battle. If this card is sent from the field to the Graveyard: Add 1 "Sky Conquerors" card from your Deck to your hand.[/spoiler] [spoiler='Breaker of the Sky Conquerors'] Lore: 1 "Sky Conquerors" monster + 1 FIRE Monster This card gains 100 ATK for each "Sky Conquerors" card in your Graveyard. When this card attacks: Your opponent cannot activate cards or effects until the end of the Damage Step. While this card is in your Graveyard, during your Main Phase 1: You can tribute 1 "Sky Conquerors" Fusion Monster, except "Breaker of the Sky Conquerors"; Special Summon this card. If this card is sent to the Graveyard: Add 1 "Polymerization" from your Graveyard to your Hand.[/spoiler] [spoiler='Lightblade of the Sky Conquerors'] Lore: 1 "Sky Conquerors" monsters + 1 LIGHT Monster During your Main Phase 2, if this card was on the field during the Battle Phase: Target 1 card on your opponents side of the field; destroy that target. When this card is sent to the Graveyard: Add 1 "Polymerization" from your Graveyard to your hand.[/spoiler] [spoiler='Frostfangs of the Sky Conquerors'] Lore: 1 "Sky Conquerors" monsters + 1 WATER Monster Once per turn, if your opponent Special Summons a monster(s) during their Main Phase 1: You can target that monster; negate its effects until the End Phase. Once per turn, during your Main Phase 2: You can discard 1 "Sky Conquerors" card; destroy 1 card on the field, and if you do, banish it. If this card is sent to the Graveyard: Add 1 "Polymerization" from your Graveyard to your Hand. [/spoiler] [spoiler='Bloodscythe of the Sky Conquerors'] Lore: 1 "Sky Conquerors" monsters + 1 DARK monster Cannot be destroyed by monster effects. When this card battles an opponents monster with 3000 or less ATK: You can destroy that monster, and if you do, banish it and inflict damage to your opponent equal to half its original ATK. If this card is sent to the Graveyard: Add 1 "Polymerization" from your Graveyard to your Hand.[/spoiler] [/spoiler] [spoiler='Synchro'] [spoiler='Scepter of the Sky Conquerors'] Lore: 1 Tuner + 1 or more non-Tuner monsters You can also Synchro Summon this card by using 1 Tuner and 1 Fusion Monster you control as Synchro Material. If you do, this card gains 200 ATK. Once per turn: Once per turn: You can return 1 Fusion Monster from your Graveyard to the Extra Deck. If this card is sent to the Graveyard, except as Fusion Material: Add 1 Monster from your Graveyard to your hand that was used as Fusion Material. You can only use each effect of "Scepter of the Sky Conquerors" once per turn.[/spoiler] [/spoiler] Thanks for reading through all this, feel free to comment, suggest or express your opinion on the cards. Greetings, Self-Destruct Button Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Love of Ghibli Posted January 6, 2015 Report Share Posted January 6, 2015 Spirit: I'm confused about the whole negating another cards effect. Wouldn't you just make it target itself and therefore it will effectively keep coming back as a fusion floater? I suggest their has to be some target another card section. Vamp: Not really a fan of this one. She's completely uninhibited. Her restriction does not make up for how foolish burial+ her= her on the board and that is the least problematic she can be. Lance: She's awesome Shard: I like this one too Flare: This end phase searching is nice, though it is potential rekindling fuel. Angel: That declaring attribute thing can be once per turn or something. The fusions: Okay as a whole I think they do to much. It's nice that they each have their own effects but the fact that they all do stuff after death is excessive. In my opinion I think it gets rid of the whole concept of Extra deck summons being an inherent -1. This basically turns Polymerization into an engine. Yes I know polymerization makes fusion a -2 (min), but when the materials + off of the fact that they are fused then I feel you've done the job well. Now making the fusions + off being sent to the grave (not just being fused mind you) that in itself is excessive. In short Vamp is excessive and in fact since she can target herself she walls when it comes to battle. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Self-Destruct Button Posted January 6, 2015 Author Report Share Posted January 6, 2015 First of all, thanks for your comment. Spirits second Effect does not target, and it only targets face-up cards your opponent controls, and also she does neither destroy nor banish anything so you don't gain that much off of her. She requires the opponent to have a Monster, Spell or Trap to be worth negating (has to be face-up) for her to do anything. Also, you cannot use her multiple times for Fusion Summoning unless you have a perfect hand with 2 poly, her in hand AND minimum 2 other monsters to fusion summon with. That's a 5-card requirement so it's more than unlikely. As for Vamp, she says "Level 4", but herself is Level 3, so she cannot summon herself nor bring herself back with Foolish Burial. If you burial her you get a Level 4 monster on board, okay, but that's nothing other decks cannot do. (Lightsworn Wolf, that one rock card can do that aswell) She doesn't say Level 4 or lower, it's ONLY Level 4. The declaring attribute of Angel is a built-in once per turn because it's on her Normal Summon, and you don't get more than one Normal Summon anyways. Also, Flare has 0 DEF and not 200 so it can't be summoned with Rekindling. And as for the Fusions floating: That's because the Fusions still drain your hand - especially if your opponent manages to kill one Fusion so that it doesn't go to the graveyard. In that case you're left without a poly and with significantly less advantage than your opponent, so it's good to have such a recovery. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Love of Ghibli Posted January 6, 2015 Report Share Posted January 6, 2015 First of all, thanks for your comment. Spirits second Effect does not target, and it only targets face-up cards your opponent controls, and also she does neither destroy nor banish anything so you don't gain that much off of her. She requires the opponent to have a Monster, Spell or Trap to be worth negating (has to be face-up) for her to do anything. Also, you cannot use her multiple times for Fusion Summoning unless you have a perfect hand with 2 poly, her in hand AND minimum 2 other monsters to fusion summon with. That's a 5-card requirement so it's more than unlikely. As for Vamp, she says "Level 4", but herself is Level 3, so she cannot summon herself nor bring herself back with Foolish Burial. If you burial her you get a Level 4 monster on board, okay, but that's nothing other decks cannot do. (Lightsworn Wolf, that one rock card can do that aswell) She doesn't say Level 4 or lower, it's ONLY Level 4. The declaring attribute of Angel is a built-in once per turn because it's on her Normal Summon, and you don't get more than one Normal Summon anyways. Also, Flare has 0 DEF and not 200 so it can't be summoned with Rekindling. And as for the Fusions floating: That's because the Fusions still drain your hand - especially if your opponent manages to kill one Fusion so that it doesn't go to the graveyard. In that case you're left without a poly and with significantly less advantage than your opponent, so it's good to have such a recovery. 1. Oh spirit is worse than I thought. I thought she was somewhat balanced her free advantage of being a floating tuner was balanced by negating one of your own effects was some way to actually a way to balance the card. To randomly perma stun an opponents card is waayyy to excessive and it isn't even once per turn. 2. To compare vamp to Wulf is not a fair comparison by any stretch. Wulf ONLY works when sent from the deck to the graveyard. Vamp is more akin to Burning Abyss cards (which are awesomely balanced correct?) where she bypasses all cost and no matter what her effect will go off as long as there is a level 4 target in the grave and she goes to the grave. She's right under BA levels of brokeness even knowing she works with "only" level 4s she's way too excessive for me. 3. The materials give you your hand back or generate some other kind of advantage it makes up for the fact that you are summoning some boss monster that is giving you a good form of field presence. Now as for "if your opponent manages..." I have another stream of consciousness on that. But the recovery you have is when your materials get their effects off and most of them do end phase. If they search, then you've recovered your hand. Everything after that is extra. in my opinion 4. The parts in bold are things that I fear when people design cards. The first one is that if your opponent plays the game at then you are allowed to have some effect that's excessive. Spirit perma-stuns cards. That's not good, because she doesn't need the effect. It has nothing to do with the overall theme of fusion summoning. It just punishes the opponent for playing good cards. The second one...To me it screams "this card is fine the way it is because cards can stop it." That is not a good argument. Arguably I can only think of two"commonly used cards" that stop them from floating: Bottomless and Compuls. Both of which are cards at one meaning that they are not likely going to stop these fusions. I find them excessive even for fusions where you're starting at a base -2. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darj Posted January 6, 2015 Report Share Posted January 6, 2015 Spirit: I think this needs a hard OPT either on the effect, the self-revival, or both. Or at the very least make the negation temporary. Otherwise, with the right hand, as explained above, you could use this multiple times and thus negate multiple cards, and while negation doesn't generate any physical card advantage, it may as well be a +1 considering the effectiveness of Fiendish Chain/Breakthrough, which are also -1 but depending on the effects they negate, they can pay themselves off. Vamp: I agree with Lonely that the "sent to grave" effect is too flexible: You can mill it, discard it, detach it, block an attack, etc. and you will get a Level4 monster. At least you could nerf if so it triggers when sent to the grave by battle or card effect (e.g. Archfiend Heiress). Lance: The card feels fair but at the same time I don't like how it is a +2 by itself: Searching for Poly: +1 Blocking a card that would destroy your Fusion: +1 Shard: This one should be fine. Flare: This is similar to Lance in that it could generate a +2 by itself if you Normal Summon it and then use it as Fusion material, but thankfully the hard OPT puts in on check and prevents you from doing so. Angel: More or less the" Shaddoll Core" of Sky Conquerors. I think it is fine. Fusion monsters: Agree with Lonely: the floating effects look problematic because they are a +2 each. If you consider the lost of the Fusion, then it is a +1, but, unlike with the Shaddoll Fusions, you are still generating card advantage. Thornpike is an exception because its floating effect is only a +1, but that's because you turned the "recycle Poly" part of the effect into an on-Summon effect. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Self-Destruct Button Posted January 6, 2015 Author Report Share Posted January 6, 2015 1. Oh spirit is worse than I thought. I thought she was somewhat balanced her free advantage of being a floating tuner was balanced by negating one of your own effects was some way to actually a way to balance the card. To randomly perma stun an opponents card is waayyy to excessive and it isn't even once per turn. 2. To compare vamp to Wulf is not a fair comparison by any stretch. Wulf ONLY works when sent from the deck to the graveyard. Vamp is more akin to Burning Abyss cards (which are awesomely balanced correct?) where she bypasses all cost and no matter what her effect will go off as long as there is a level 4 target in the grave and she goes to the grave. She's right under BA levels of brokeness even knowing she works with "only" level 4s she's way too excessive for me. 3. The materials give you your hand back or generate some other kind of advantage it makes up for the fact that you are summoning some boss monster that is giving you a good form of field presence. Now as for "if your opponent manages..." I have another stream of consciousness on that. But the recovery you have is when your materials get their effects off and most of them do end phase. If they search, then you've recovered your hand. Everything after that is extra. in my opinion 4. The parts in bold are things that I fear when people design cards. The first one is that if your opponent plays the game at then you are allowed to have some effect that's excessive. Spirit perma-stuns cards. That's not good, because she doesn't need the effect. It has nothing to do with the overall theme of fusion summoning. It just punishes the opponent for playing good cards. The second one...To me it screams "this card is fine the way it is because cards can stop it." That is not a good argument. Arguably I can only think of two"commonly used cards" that stop them from floating: Bottomless and Compuls. Both of which are cards at one meaning that they are not likely going to stop these fusions. I find them excessive even for fusions where you're starting at a base -2. 1. Okay, as it doesn't do something for the deck I will remove the effect. Maybe a weaker additional effect that helps with Fusion Summoning when you really have no advantage at all is what the deck still lacks, but that's a story for another day. I was just thinking that giving her only the effect to be special summonable when being fused to be not enough for her as a card - I don't like one-liners. 2. BA is an Archetype while she is only a single monster with a little bit of utility. All it gives you is Rank 4 access or some more protection if you really need it that much - that's neither bad nor overpowered. It's okay at best. I can see it changed to being sent by a card effect, so it doesn't get the effect when it's destroyed by battle, but I think restricting her more is not necessary as she's only ONE monster in the Archetype that gives it a little bit of Speed outside of Fusion Summoning. Else you're screwed if you don't have a Poly. 3. I might limit the searching to the weaker fusions, so that the Bosses have a further Opportunity cost because they don't give you anything back. I mean, getting a Bloodscythe off the field is already hard enough, so it'd make sense if you wouldn't get anything back from that. I think it's enough to leave the recovery effects to Aegis and Thornpike, as they're not really contributing to Field Presence that much and are just there to help defensively. 4. This argument is not worth continuing because of the changes made above. EDIT: Spirit was changed completely and the way the bigger Fusions float was changed. Also Vamp only kicks off if used as Xyz or Fusion material, which was how it was meant to be used. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Self-Destruct Button Posted January 11, 2015 Author Report Share Posted January 11, 2015 Any other thoughts on the Archetype? I think it should be balanced now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Self-Destruct Button Posted January 18, 2015 Author Report Share Posted January 18, 2015 Bump, or maybe not, I don't know. Aaaaaaaaanyways, I nerfed the 2 Boss Monsters Frostfangs and Bloodscythe, while making them easier to summon! (Sidenote: Scythe can still kill Towers! Yay!) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Self-Destruct Button Posted February 9, 2015 Author Report Share Posted February 9, 2015 Yay, I don't have to make a new Thread b/c the last Post is not 4 weeks ago. Anyways, A few changes occured: -> Small Fix: 2 of the Fusions said "When this card is sent to the Graveyard" instead of "If". This was fixed. -> New Synchro Monster! Synchro Summoning with Spirit usually involved a ton of minuses, this Synchro Monster should make it a +0 again. I hope. -> Spirit actually makes sense now! (b/c new Synchro) So yeah. Comments, Suggestions and Ideas are always appreciated. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darj Posted February 9, 2015 Report Share Posted February 9, 2015 Wait, what? How exactly Spirit involved "tons of minuses"? Isn't it essentially a free Tuner when used as Fusion Material? Doesn't it trigger the float effect of a Fusion when used as Synchro Material? So in essence you could already drop +0 Synchros, and if that Synchro could generate pluses on its own (e.g Stardust Dragon), then the balance turns to your favor; and now you made a Synchro that generates additional pluses? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cirrus Posted February 9, 2015 Report Share Posted February 9, 2015 Why does your Synchro draw you cards if your monsters are already free? This is my question. It has good attack to boot! And you can float stuff with it! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Self-Destruct Button Posted February 9, 2015 Author Report Share Posted February 9, 2015 If you Syncho Summoned with Spirit, you kinda wasted your Fusion plus you threw away one of the Fusion Materials which could otherwise float. The Synchro is basically just there so that Spirit makes sense Archetype-Wise and so that you have a go-to target for her. Also, as for pluses and minuses: The Fusion Summon is initially a -3 (or -2 if you have angel) until the End Phase either way, and in the End Phase it still only goes to a -1 until your Fusion Monster gets you the Poly back. (Castel and Dprison and the likes are a Nightmare to the deck tho) So if Spirit Specials herself after being fused, she makes it obliagtory to use the Fusion Monster as Synchro Material, so that Synchro better do something good b/c else you have essentially thrown away a fine Extra Deck monster. That was my main Issue with Spirit, though I worded it completely wrong, so I'm sorry about that. As for the Effect drawing cards, it was more of a placeholder than anything else. I think I will scratch that and just make her throw a Fusion from the Graveyard back in the Extra Deck as the whole Effect. That clarifys her purpose and kills the problem I mentioned earlier, without plussing even more. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darj Posted February 9, 2015 Report Share Posted February 9, 2015 Just a thought: If Spirit doesn't exactly follow the theme of Sky Conquerors, why not simply scrap her instead of giving her a purpose through an archetype Synchro Monster that may accidentaly "break" something? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Self-Destruct Button Posted February 10, 2015 Author Report Share Posted February 10, 2015 I will leave the Synchro as it is, maybe make it non-SQ, it doesn't really matter much. Anyways, Spirit was removed from the Archetype as suggested by Voltex. They might get a new LIGHT someday, though I think that's not necessary. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Self-Destruct Button Posted February 27, 2015 Author Report Share Posted February 27, 2015 Once Change to report: -> Shard of the Sky Conquerors is now a cosplaying Flare! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Self-Destruct Button Posted March 19, 2015 Author Report Share Posted March 19, 2015 New Card: Sky Charge! Just a Plan B aka safety net. Also Fusion Recovery is now a card (thanks Konami). Really boosts Sky Conquerors. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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