[Mtg15] Stormbringer Angel

[Forest Fire]

{5}{u}{u}{u}

+4 Counter target instant or sorcery. It's controller draws a card and gets a 2/2 blue Storm creature token

-6 Counter target spell, exile it and spells of the same name cannot be cast for the remainder of the game

0 Gain control of all blue Storm creature tokens and untap them; remove 1 loyalty counter from this card for each

[6]

[.Rai]

How does this work? You can't actually activate loyalty abilities at instant speed.

[Cirrus]

Is the PW's name Angel

 

If it's not you better make it a creature

 

Free counterspells are dumb

 

As Rai said, PW abilities are sorcery speed

 

veri porly thot out design 2/10 for ok art

[Spinny]

Is the PW's name Angel

 

If it's not you better make it a creature

 

Free counterspells are dumb

 

As Rai said, PW abilities are sorcery speed

 

veri porly thot out design 2/10 for ok art

AbsoluteCrap/AbsoluteCrapComment

 

Dont be so blunt to people who are just trying their best or trying to have fun ok? Because your attitude is purely disgusting.

 

I actually thought the idea of giving your opponent advantage by negating their Instants or Sorceries was an ok idea but her ultimate is what makes the card more interesting.

 

Yes, as adressed by the rude comment i quoted, There are a few problems like how it needs a proper name like Freya or something that hasnt already been taken, also you need to add an ability that lets her use her abilities at instant speed.

But the concept is cool, and 8 mana isnt always the easiest to pull off, and its very dependant on the opponent playing that kind of card.

Its kinda weird and wonky in design, but it isnt worthy of such crappy CnC.

[Forest Fire]

it would be helpful to have a suggestion as to what i should change  thanks oblivion
 

Is the PW's name Angel
 
If it's not you better make it a creature

how would this even work as a creature....
 

AbsoluteCrap/AbsoluteCrapComment
 
Dont be so blunt to people who are just trying their best or trying to have fun ok? Because your attitude is purely disgusting.
 
I actually thought the idea of giving your opponent advantage by negating their Instants or Sorceries was an ok idea but her ultimate is what makes the card more interesting.
 
Yes, as adressed by the rude comment i quoted, There are a few problems like how it needs a proper name like Freya or something that hasnt already been taken, also you need to add an ability that lets her use her abilities at instant speed.
But the concept is cool, and 8 mana isnt always the easiest to pull off, and its very dependant on the opponent playing that kind of card.
Its kinda weird and wonky in design, but it isnt worthy of such crappy CnC.

oh, so like the "(this is a quick effect)" thing in yugioh? ok, that's do-able. hmm.. for a name, how's Vetra? and yes, i purposefully made this dependent on the opponent. i don't like cards that are like 'oh you were playing, i didn't notice' 

[Spinny]

it would be helpful to have a suggestion as to what i should change 

Swap the -6 and the 0's places on the card and change the -6 to -3 and gain a emblem that lets you use PW's abilities like instants.

 

Its just an idea, and im not adept at magic, but it should be ok.

[.Rai]

Because 'Angel' is a creature type, it can't be on a Planeswalker in that manner. And, unless her name is literally 'Stormbringer Angel', she should be a named character.

Cirrus has a point, admittedly. The + needs to be changed up entirely because free counters are immensely, immensely unfun and difficult to play against. And you need to find a way for counters to work. Maybe a fourth box with a static ability letting you activate them at instant speed.

[Forest Fire]

Because 'Angel' is a creature type, it can't be on a Planeswalker in that manner. And, unless her name is literally 'Stormbringer Angel', she should be a named character.

Cirrus has a point, admittedly. The + needs to be changed up entirely because free counters are immensely, immensely unfun and difficult to play against. And you need to find a way for counters to work. Maybe a fourth box with a static ability letting you activate them at instant speed.

unfortunately, the generator i use only let's you have 3 boxes, which is really annoying. maybe if i added a mana cost to the ability?
 

Swap the -6 and the 0's places on the card and change the -6 to -3 and gain a emblem that lets you use PW's abilities like instants.
 
Its just an idea, and im not adept at magic, but it should be ok.

ok. how's this: 

 

{5}{u}{u}{u}
+4 Counter target instant or sorcery (this ability activates as though it were an instant).

It's controller draws a card and gets a 2/2 blue Storm creature token; also you must pay {X},

where X is that card's converted mana cost.
0 Gain control of all blue Storm creature tokens and untap them; remove 1 loyalty counter

from this card for each

-3 Counter target spell (this ability activates as though it were an instant),

exile it and spells of the same name cannot be cast for the remainder of the game; also you must pay {X},

where X is that card's converted mana cost.

[6]

 

*facepalm* edited the -6 to -3. sorry about that... i really am stupid, aren't i?

[Cirrus]

AbsoluteCrap/AbsoluteCrapComment

 

Dont be so blunt to people who are just trying their best or trying to have fun ok? Because your attitude is purely disgusting.

 

I actually thought the idea of giving your opponent advantage by negating their Instants or Sorceries was an ok idea but her ultimate is what makes the card more interesting.

 

Yes, as adressed by the rude comment i quoted, There are a few problems like how it needs a proper name like Freya or something that hasnt already been taken, also you need to add an ability that lets her use her abilities at instant speed.

But the concept is cool, and 8 mana isnt always the easiest to pull off, and its very dependant on the opponent playing that kind of card.

Its kinda weird and wonky in design, but it isnt worthy of such crappy CnC.

 

I guess text doesn't convey tone, but I thought that it was quite clear from the intentionally poor spelling that the last line was entirely a joke (and the lack of punctuation that the first four lines were only semi-serious given the slightly outlandish design of the card as a whole ... although their points are valid). Personally I don't think I was that acerbic; I didn't feel like I had any business trying to actually fix the card because the end result would probably be too far off given that there was no design principle included - thus, I had no idea what the heck the card was trying to accomplish.

 

I am, however, unapologetic about my supposed attitude. "Purely disgusting" is a bit too much, hmm?

 

Okay let's do a serious CnC.

 

From a Planeswalker perspective: first ability counters spells for free and gains too many loyalty counters while doing so. Making a 2/2 does almost nothing because you get +4 loyalty and presumably can just activate the 0 on your turn to steal your 2/2 back (not like the 2/2 can attack during the interim...). Making free counterspells, while an interesting idea to be toyed with, is incredibly overpowered if it's unconditional and the cost is negligible. There are many counterspells in the game on sticks, don't get me wrong, but generally they have one of many conditions: specificness (a spell that targets some specific thing, a red spell, counter it unless X is paid, counter the first spell of each turn, and so on) or cost (either in terms of mana paid, tapping the stick, sacrificing something, or whatever). The best example of unconditional countermagic is Ertai, and he's tough to mobilize and costs 4 mana to counter something, and even then he's good. So I would rethink the first ability.

 

The second ability is okay in a vacuum. Such an ability for a high amount of mana is acceptable. But it doesn't make a lot of sense why you would use it when you have the first ability which is free.

 

The third ability makes the first ability 3 strong. I mean it's probably 2 strong without this third ability but it becomes 3 strong. This ability is the ability I actually like however, out of all three abilities.

 

What you might have wanted to do or might want to proceed to do: make this card a bit cheaper. Make it into a creature. Make it make some elemental tokens and possibly have a sacrifice 2-3 elementals to counter target spell ability. An angel that counters spells and makes storm tokens is cool but this current incarnation doesn't seem very realistic.

 

tl;dr way too good for edh, irrelevant for everything else; please fix design so it resembles a real card more closely unless that wasn't your goal then go crazy I guess

 

EDIT: re: the new version, the cost is too steep and you end up playing a mana war at that point, which is not blue's forte. You might as well make it a creature as it has no ultimate and its abilities are not too impressive for a non-ult PW. If you want LEGENDARY then make it a Legendary Creature or something. If you want a counterspelling planeswalker that's actually playable, I'd advise making the actual PW cheaper and finding a reasonable medium for the strength of the counterspells.

 

EDIT2: something like this...

 

[name], Stormbringer Angel - 4UU

Planeswalker - [name]

+2: Put a 2/2 elemental token with flying onto the battlefield. [then tap or untap target permanent?]

-[small number]: Counter target spell unless its controller pays x+1, where x is the number of elementals you control. Until the beginning of your next end step, you can't activate loyalty abilities of ~. You may play this ability any time you could cast an instant, and [only if you haven't used a loyalty ability after the end step?]

-[big number]: do some cool ultimate

OR 0: turn this thingy into a creature that can beat and gives bonuses to elementals while it's attacking or something

 

That would be an example of something I'd come up with.

[Forest Fire]

the tokens now have flying... for some reason o.O 
how about no? or if you are gonna change something drastically, offer a reason why. you would use the second counter to counter enchantments or creatures, which the second can't. it's "do some cool ultimate", if you actually took the time to look is it's 0.

edits:
[quote ]{5}{u}{u}{u}
+4 Counter target instant or sorcery (this ability activates as though it were an instant).
It's controller draws a card and gets a 2/2 blue Storm creature token; also you must pay {X},
where X is that card's converted mana cost. 
0 Gain control of all blue Storm creature tokens and untap them; remove 1 loyalty counter
from this card for each
-3 Counter target spell (this ability activates as though it were an instant),
exile it and spells of the same name cannot be cast for the remainder of the game; also you must pay {X},
where X is the number of blue Storm creature tokens you control subtracted from that card's converted mana cost .
[6]

bolded shit is the important stuff, not changed stuff. you actually have to read it to see what's changed.
 

the new version, the cost is too steep and you end up playing a mana war at that point, which is not blue's forte. You might as well make it a creature as it has no ultimate and its abilities are not too impressive for a non-ult PW. If you want LEGENDARY then make it a Legendary Creature or something. If you want a counterspelling planeswalker that's actually playable, I'd advise making the actual PW cheaper and finding a reasonable medium for the strength of the counterspells.

you keep saying to make it a creature... i've already answered that.

how would this even work as a creature....

as for a name, i was thinking "Verta"

[Cirrus]

Its basic premise would work perfectly fine as a creature actually ... provided you don't particularly have any PW-vs-creature interactions in mind. As far as I can tell the card's goals is to make tokens (in a roundabout way) and counter spells (get rid of your opponent's ability to cast nonpermanent spells and maybe exile some permanent spells?). Yes, this is exceedingly simple as breakdowns go but I'm not convinced that the card does much else.

 

My first thought when reading the words "storm token" was that the tokens probably had flying. Therein lies my mistake. This makes the original +4 ability even more incredible (because you can block 2/2 dorks without evasion most of the time if you're actually playing with this level of mana). I did make another reading mistake: the first version is a decent amount less broken than I previously thought upon retrospection, but not quite in a way that helps it back towards positive balance either ... the plan becomes, much like cards like Dream Fracture are wont to do, to counter your opponent's best spells and ignore the remainder. (The counter has a bit more decision-making involved but still has an irrelevant cost.)

 

The 0 ability isn't actually enough to be ultimate levels of cool. It just takes the storm tokens you gave to the opponent back, which is admittedly okay but the other abilities aren't exactly strong right now to warrant the 0 being mediocre. I addressed what's changed already with my last post, but I suppose I'll have to repeat myself because I don't think you read it carefully enough. Re: your current revision, my point about blue not being able to fight a mana war still stands (your card costs 8 mana, countering stuff costs more mana equivalent to the amount of mana it took the opponent, PW does nothing exciting other than countering stuff and so presumably has to be able to actually counter stuff). As for loyalty abilities, I recommend you take a look at the section regarding Loyalty Abilities in the Comp Rules and then think about what kind of rules text would be necessary to make your card work in the scope of the rules.

[Forest Fire]

_{not sure if you noticed, but there were more edits.}

that page... so help... much change will done. -doge. 
 
any way. in my blue/white deck i can get a ton of mana pretty quickly so.... yeah. the point of this was to make a balanced planewalker. 
 

Its basic premise would work perfectly fine as a creature actually ...

o.O how would it even be worded? i'm pretty sure that would take waay to much text

 

This makes the original +4 ability even more incredible (because you can block 2/2 dorks without evasion most of the time if you're actually playing with this level of mana). 

because 2/2's without flying > 2/2's with flying. yeaaaah. totally. blockablitly =/= incredibility. the opposite in fact, most of the time.

 

i like counters. deal with it. there might be better counters, but i kinda like this card.

[Cirrus]

I feel like you understood nothing important out of what I said throughout most of this thread. Someone else can take up the mantle of trying to balance this card if they so wish; I have no business continuing the effort. However, I might as well try to clarify something before I go.

 

A bear is significantly worse than a griffin. Which is exactly what I said. 2/2 dorks that can't even hit the loyalty counters you're racking up are basically useless, versus 2/2 fliers that can get rid of 2 of the 4 counters you received from playing the ability, so your PW doesn't even have to get the token back in the former case. The vast majority of the time you are going to counter your opponent's spells, thus they are receiving the 2/2 as a downside to your card, which makes the fact that they get a flying token worse for you and better for them.

[Flame Dragon]

If you wanted to do something like this on a creature you'd need Flash.
 
Something like
[Name] 2UU
Creature - [Creature Type]
Flash
When [Card name] enters the battlefield, counter target non-creature spell. Its controller puts a 3/3 blue [creature type] creature token with flying onto the battlefield.

3/3

 

Reason I'd give it flying is because otherwise you invalidate the token by just be able to fly over it. 

 

That said, your card itself has the issue of not being able to counter anything, and having a thing that just sits in play able to counter things is broken. That said, I like the -6 and think it could work as an effect on a white card. The +0 is also really interesting. I feel like these things alone are enough for an interesting card. You just need to figure out a powerful enough + effect to justify giving the opponent a creature. 

[Forest Fire]

Stormbringer Angel
{5}{u}{u}{u}
Flash, Flying
When Stormbringer Angel enters the battlefield, counter target non-creature spell. Its controller puts a 3/3 blue Storm creature token with flying onto the battlefield.
{X} Gain control of 1 blue Storm creature token(s) with flying for every 3 mana paid; this ability must be paid for with blue mana.

 

I was really trying to keep it a Planeswalker, but I realize how.... stupid, for lack of a better word, that was. Sorry.