THE GREAT YCM ECONOMIC REVIVAL PLAN

[Nathanael D. Striker]

And I'd like to point out that the things that currently receive mod funding should continue to receive mod funding under this system. This includes the Leaderboard, and the revamping of points would see those prizes actually meaning something; therefore, increasing the incentive to compete and that would promote activity.[/lobbying effort]

[Aix]

As-is, you've made shop owners the ones likely to control everything, as they have something to physically contribute.

Points aren't going to be easy to attain unless the mods are working harder than ever, and I doubt the team would be willing to do that bar you and Night.

You could give point rewards for reviewing in CC, for example, but that can give rise to another Ragnarok due to the fact that that lends itself to quantity over quality.

If you monitor each and every one for quality, that's far too much to asses... and Ragnarok will still happen for sheer chance of hitting lucky.

So then you can't reward something like that without encouraging flooding, which means more rules in order to mitigate the flooding, and that just leaves to getting convoluted and not being worth it, potentially scaring people away from it.

So it's difficult to execute rewarding "constructive" posts,

Which means only large efforts can be rewarded without too much effort. And what is good enough here?

What if you make a large post detailing why X, Y, Z is good, and A, B, C is bad, but no one replies?

What if you post "Burger King selling new purple chicken tenders" and get 5 pages? Is that valued higher than the former?

So either it's constant events (mod team overall makes this feel unlikely) or rewarding posting in certain ways (easily abused/hard to monitor).

It's a really cute idea, but it's really difficult to execute, and removing points currently existing just makes it harder.

For Shops to sell, it needs customers with the money to buy, anyway. Ultimately, only if the other people are rich will the Showcase people have a market.

 

We have been discussing promoting a few more mods, even before I brought this up. Night has said before that what we're looking for isn't just a guy to be a janitor and clean shit up.

 

It's pretty easy off the bat to see if a review is at least half-decent and not something like "This card is cool because I can use it in my Dark Worlds". And plus, we are thinking about more mods. There's also the option of making you have to cash in your constructive posts, and there can be a limit to how many posts you can cash in per day/week.

 

Rules to cut down on spam are supposed to be enforced anyway. Once we have a General mod(s), there won't be a ton of meaningless stuff pumping up the page count. We aren't meaning to be a high-minded, intellectual forum anyway, if Burger King can have a 5 page discussion about fast foods, then why not?

[LordCowCowCowCowCowCowCowCow]

I had a random thought but maybe as to this.

 

There's also the option of making you have to cash in your constructive posts, and there can be a limit to how many posts you can cash in per day/week.
 

 

This could be a good idea. Basically, have them PM a mod to tell them "Check out this post" if they think it's good enough to be worth points or something like that perhaps?

[Blake]

For Shops to sell, it needs customers with the money to buy, anyway. Ultimately, only if the other people are rich will the Showcase people have a market.
 
We have been discussing promoting a few more mods, even before I brought this up. Night has said before that what we're looking for isn't just a guy to be a janitor and clean shit up.
 
It's pretty easy off the bat to see if a review is at least half-decent and not something like "This card is cool because I can use it in my Dark Worlds". And plus, we are thinking about more mods. There's also the option of making you have to cash in your constructive posts, and there can be a limit to how many posts you can cash in per day/week.
 
Rules to cut down on spam are supposed to be enforced anyway. Once we have a General mod(s), there won't be a ton of meaningless stuff pumping up the page count. We aren't meaning to be a high-minded, intellectual forum anyway, if Burger King can have a 5 page discussion about fast foods, then why not?

But one it gets rolling, it really is just a showcase revival.

I'd suggest trimming the extra weight off before you bring more on board. Old fat is a bit disgusting, so to speak.

Is it, though? I mean, yeah, there's the ability to tell borderline spam from a review, but what if the review is full of misinformation/incorrect information? This goes back to CC's (and the site's) endless problem, where you can only reward as much as people earn. And this has failed time and again because people don't care to do so. Points as a side economy doesn't really push this any more. Showcase doesn't have this problem much due to the nature of it as a sub-community that grows together, but most of the site isn't like that. I wouldn't call CW, CC, TCG, VG, etc. solid communities in the same regard, though some are stronger than others.

And then this leads itself to the elitist views the site is opposed to creating. The opposition makes sense in line with this idea, but not in line with the system proposed. It gives more to those who know/achieve more, which pushes an elite who are set apart from the rest. While this isn't a bad thing to encourage, it defeats the idea behind this.

Why are you rewarding something so simple when something that has more effort isn't rewarded? You didn't answer my point there, just half of it.

[LordCowCowCowCowCowCowCowCow]

And then this leads itself to the elitist views the site is opposed to creating. The opposition makes sense in line with this idea, but not in line with the system proposed. It gives more to those who know/achieve more, which pushes an elite who are set apart from the rest. While this isn't a bad thing to encourage, it defeats the idea behind this.

That's just the thing though. The elitist views we don't want are the undeserved ones. But obviously it's fine for people who contribute with good quality stuff to feel good about themselves. That's a great thing to be honest. The purpose is to help people feel good about contributing, not to encourage elitism (Specifically undeserved elitism.)

[Greiga]

If you have no option to change your name can you still get it free every 90 days?

[(GigaDrillBreaker)]

Step 1: Post in CC as much as Rag
Step 2: Do actual reviews rather than just saying "nice job"
Step 3: Earn all the points
Step 4: ?????
Step 5: Profit RULE SHOWCASE AS AN ANGRY GOD

So much support.

[Aix]

But one it gets rolling, it really is just a showcase revival.

Showcase can only get so many points by contributing, which then it's right anyway. I also don't see people forming an oligarchy or otherwise causing actual problems with having too many points.

 

Is it, though? I mean, yeah, there's the ability to tell borderline spam from a review, but what if the review is full of misinformation/incorrect information? This goes back to CC's (and the site's) endless problem, where you can only reward as much as people earn. And this has failed time and again because people don't care to do so. Points as a side economy doesn't really push this any more. Showcase doesn't have this problem much due to the nature of it as a sub-community that grows together, but most of the site isn't like that. I wouldn't call CW, CC, TCG, VG, etc. solid communities in the same regard, though some are stronger than others.

So it brings it to a decision between wanting activity and wanting quality, which would be up to the mods in charge. However, a very possible compromise will be to reward quality more than quantity. I do feel points can serve as an incentive for things that will help people learn. People who aren't willing to learn at all like the 12-year-olds that appear in CC aren't going to be active or staying members anyway, and those who do stay for any significant amount of time should be able to be coaxed to learn. I don't know about TCG so I can't say, however, there is also the element of competition in Contests/Tournaments that also pushes people to get better at whatever it is. If this doesn't convince you, we'd just have to think the system through and then try it out.

 

And then this leads itself to the elitist views the site is opposed to creating. The opposition makes sense in line with this idea, but not in line with the system proposed. It gives more to those who know/achieve more, which pushes an elite who are set apart from the rest. While this isn't a bad thing to encourage, it defeats the idea behind this.

Point-earning things won't all be constructive things. There can be fun things, like games and lottery-type events which allow others the possibility of earning points. Hopefully, almost no one will be incapable of finding something amusing to do and earn points from it. There just remains REALLY casual users that may be put off, but said users aren't really part of the community anyway. Plus, anyone can understand that if they don't contribute, they don't earn. 

 

Why are you rewarding something so simple when something that has more effort isn't rewarded? You didn't answer my point there, just half of it.

To keep a push towards quality, quality will be worth more points.

If you have no option to change your name can you still get it free every 90 days?

Yes. The Name Change thing only costs so much because it's a luxury.

[Kazooie]

There just remains REALLY casual users that may be put off, but said users aren't really part of the community anyway. Plus, anyone can understand that if they don't contribute at all, they don't earn. 

 

This is the category I fall under personally. Once this eventually comes into effect, I'll be taking off from YCM, since I won't have much business being around.

[Smear]

CnC rewards I like this idea. This means night would need to be a lot more active in showcase to give points though. And can I suggest instead of starting with 0 points that everyone starts with like 1000+ points just to give them a bit of a blast? Seems l like starting on 0 would be annoying.

[iCherries]

There just remains REALLY casual users that may be put off, but said users aren't really part of the community anyway. Plus, anyone can understand that if they don't contribute, they don't earn.

I get encouraging contribution to the community, but isn't this ridiculously harsh? People who come on a casual forum get pushed out for being casual users? If they don't contribute, they shouldn't be rewarded. That much I can agree on. But the way this came off sounds like giving up on part of the userbase.

[Aix]

I get encouraging contribution to the community, but isn't this ridiculously harsh? People who come on a casual forum get pushed out for being casual users? If they don't contribute, they shouldn't be rewarded. That much I can agree on. But the way this came off sounds like giving up on part of the userbase.

They aren't really pushed out, I also really don't feel casual users will feel that unwelcome or inferior because they don't have a shiny thing beneath their avatar. And by really casual, I meant people who won't really post at all.

 

CnC rewards I like this idea. This means night would need to be a lot more active in showcase to give points though. And can I suggest instead of starting with 0 points that everyone starts with like 1000+ points just to give them a bit of a blast? Seems l like starting on 0 would be annoying.

1000 points sounds reasonable. I can't find any way to let new members have 1000 by default, so if any new member comes by they'll just have to ask to have their 1000.

 

Black mentioned he doesn't really want his points removed, so we'll settle this by a vote.

[Tourmaline]

No support.

There are particular luxuries available to anybody that are being taken away because of the possible existence of this idea that should be open regardless of activity.

[Aix]

No support.

There are particular luxuries available to anybody that are being taken away because of the possible existence of this idea that should be open regardless of activity.

If you are referring to the name changes and profile music, a name change is always available after 45/90 days, and profile music was always a hassle to put into profiles. The free name changes weren't ever actually meant to be given, we only started giving them after a mod first gave one to someone, and the rest of us gave them so no one would complain about unfairness.

[Tourmaline]

Their history does not matter as much as their impact, though.

What would be the difference(s) in profile customization between then and now?

[Maeriberii Haan]

Let's see.....

 

Profile Music now can be used by everyone, but to some people it'll ruin their profile due to a bug. Iirc some membergroups don't have this problem so yeah.

Header is exclusive to Senior Members or above. With this you can just be active instead of reaching 4k posts to get them.

 

Name changes...giving people free name changes was never on the mod's job description, and it's never been the right for the people to ask for that.

 

Pretty much that, so nothing much changed, just returning things to what it should be.

[Sleepy]

The idea itself is good, but it really depends on how it gets implemented after past rough drafts.

 

For one, items from the stores are often luxuries or needed in rare circumstances, like for example, I have only bought name changes for me like once, and the other 3 or so times has been to give the item away to members that couldn't afford them. Or, most of the threads I do don't have the need to get locked.

 

Even so, depending on the item(s) it can take a while to save up for many members. 

What am I trying to say? I don't think you should use the same standards like thousands of points if you are gonna be requiring said points for features more potentially widely used, like say, my header. 

 

The top daily poster usually tops at about 35 posts within 24 hours. It'd take that level of activity to fill in those 1000 points in a month and maybe be left with around 50. That is considering that the top poster can constantly achieve that amount and come in every day religiously to the forums. Then for that to be sustainable it'd need to be the common average standard, and not the top poster's rough number of achievement every day.

 

Simply said, hopefully the costs of all features are discussed to more detail down the road if this gets implemented.

 

 

 

 

 

On another point, yeah "quality preview" would be a pain to check by the mods to certify it to be good. Basically same issues as the "Hall of fame".
I thought about suggesting "likes" over posts, but that'd make it a popularity contest.


I neither support or unsupported this for the mean time.

I have more to say but I better go to sleep before I stat spitting nonsense.

[Maeriberii Haan]

Ah right, that reminds me.

 

Giving 1 point per post is tbh kinda stupid for reasons stated by Sleepy. An increase to 5, or heck, 10, shouldn't make another Ragnarok to appear, and it basically just give an alternate version to slowly rack in points.

Also, I'd like to for the cash-in system to have around 3-5 submission per member per week. That shouldn't really be that hard for the mods to review each week.

[Rodrigo]

Ah right, that reminds me.

 

Giving 1 point per post is tbh kinda stupid for reasons stated by Sleepy. An increase to 5, or heck, 10, shouldn't make another Ragnarok to appear, and it basically just give an alternate version to slowly rack in points.

Also, I'd like to for the cash-in system to have around 3-5 submission per member per week. That shouldn't really be that hard for the mods to review each week.

 

That sounds pretty good. 10 points per post is a nice tally.

[Aix]

It is indeed possible to adjust the points per post, and even have different point increases for different sections. Rather than the 300 points per page thing in General, I found it's also possible to get points for people posting in your post.

[Tourmaline]

It is indeed possible to adjust the points per post, and even have different point increases for different sections. Rather than the 300 points per page thing in General, I found it's also possible to get points for people posting in your post.

If you plan to have a post give ten points where they gave one before, it would be better to keep them at one and simply divide the cost of whatever you were planning by ten.

Though I still would not want this in the least.

Let's see.....

Profile Music now can be used by everyone, but to some people it'll ruin their profile due to a bug. Iirc some membergroups don't have this problem so yeah.
Header is exclusive to Senior Members or above. With this you can just be active instead of reaching 4k posts to get them.

Name changes...giving people free name changes was never on the mod's job description, and it's never been the right for the people to ask for that.

Pretty much that, so nothing much changed, just returning things to what it should be.

Consider allowing these privileges to all members regardless. Post count is utterly meaningles anyway and returning everything to zero would bother people who actually earned their points already, want nothing to do with it or for whatever ethical philosophy.

[Greiga]

Regarding the poll, is that "Reset to 1000" as opposed to "Keep current"?

 

Nvm read OP

 

 

Pretty much that, so nothing much changed, just returning things to what it should be.

 

If you make an update and then later return to the original, it's still an update from the v2. Not that your post is wrong but I felt like pointing that out.

[Maeriberii Haan]

Decided to remove the reset to 1000 option because after more thinking, it won't really achieve anything of importance and would simply just create unnecessary uproars.

[Mugendramon]

I dislike the idea of stripping everyone of their points.

I already lost a ton to Pika being a bitch, and I only got a small portion back after the hack (leaving me around a 10th of what I had), and it just annoys me that I'd just lose the rest of them over this.

In addition, this plan basically shoos members away if they aren't the most active, making them "second class". I understand wanting to push activity and contributions to the site, but bar the custom group for clubs/whatever (which is a wonderful idea, and would make warring more fun/have more of a goal as well), but that's too high priced.

It basically says you lose freedom in exchange for a perk that requires likely weeks of constant contribution/pooling with other members. Members who aren't overly active are shooed away completely, members who lack the ability to open a shop become dependent on those that open a shop, etc.

The core idea is fine, but the overall idea seems harsh to anyone that isn't capable of making a shop (like, what kind of shop can you make outside of GFX?) or consistently contributing. It's not even a learning curve, you're just thrown into the fire.

Also, new regulations for points and the like should be put in place, because people have been known to scam them... before they were even truly important.

 

You could totally open an on-demand review shop. With certain qualifications which you in particular no doubt have, you can systematically earn your points from reviewing AND helping cardmakers along the way instead of roaming CC and tipping cards there.

[WolvenDoom]

so imo resetting everyone's points is a bit harsh but other than that  support this idea, but 10000 points to make a member group then 2500 every two months is a bit too much, i would personally make it 5000 points at first then 2000 every month and you can pay before the months up, like a top-up ie i just brought it i pay 2000 then its two months until i have to pay it. last thing, members of a group should be aloud to pay/donate some to the group, like a bank. when the time expires money should be taken out the bank not the owners account...

 

like i said, i support :3