Why is this not a topic yet [The Transmigration Prophecy]

[Blake]

 

I'm really disappointed that no one has made this topic yet, considering it is a REALLY relevant move.

 

Until we get Qliphorts, this is good against every deck that's likely to be good; Noble Knights, Satellars, Shaddolls, and Burning Abyss.

 

Against Knights, you can spin their Arms/Gwyns so that they don't equip from there, or their Level 5 guys.

 

Against Satellars, you hurt their Altair and Call of the Haunted and 1 Soul Charge

 

Against Dolls, you hurt their 1 Soul Charge, Falcon, ED guys, and targets, and spin their Fusions.

 

Against Burning Abyss, you spin their guys and either make them fizzle or lose their targets. Yeah, they got resources back, but you stopped a play cold.

 

This wasn't used at 1 because it was basically a worse Crow, but now it's at 2 and is actually a really, really good and versatile card against basically everything until NECH.

 

Not to mention it hits cards like Breakthrough Skill, which was part of the reason that Rhapsody in Berserk is as good as it is in R4.deks.

 

Bar Reinforcement of the Army going to 3, and Soul Charge/Super Poly going to 1, this is the most relevant move. And Super Poly/Soul Charge aren't really discussion worthy.

[Goose]

No one on YCM plays matches so no one cares about sides

[Blake]

No one on YCM plays matches so no one cares about sides

Who said anything about siding?

 

Until NECH, this isn't even bad in the main, because it hits everything.

[Trebuchet MS]

IIRC this card was Limited so that it can't endlessly recycle itself with another copy.

[Wildflame]

IIRC this card was Limited so that it can't endlessly recycle itself with another copy.

 

Oh yeah, that was the reason. Doesn't sound to dangerous to me, though...

 

Nice little card, I was siding 1 in a couple of decks and even maining it in Fire Fist (gotta reuse those Tenkis, yo). I'm happy with this move.

[LeLukeX]

No, WHY is this even discussed this card needs to go to 3 so it can fall off the face of the planet.  

"considering it is a REALLY relevant move." 
STOP!  HOLD!  NO MORE!

 

This card will fall OFF the face of the planet within a week after the ban list, then it will become unlimited (after not a single player uses it) and a lot of players won't even notice it on the "No longer on the list" section.  

 

No one is talking about it b/c everyone was expecting this... well as I see now... ALMOST everyone. Yeah I'm looking at you.

 

Gadjiltron, on 25 Sept 2014 - 5:08 PM, said:

IIRC this card was Limited so that it can't endlessly recycle itself with another copy

 

So?  What does this accomplish?  That fact is so irrelavant.  On a similar note!  Primal Seed was actually hit for this reason and I believe you are thinking about Primal Seed when you made this statement.  This x2 + Macro Cosmos  = All banished cards to your hand.  And Macro was at 3, Fissure was at 3, so you can only imagine the horrors of getting an early macro and recycling EVERYTHING (something like Upstart Goblin would let you draw whole Deck and Limiter Removal would let you Boost to infinity).  And even Primal Seed which was at limited for a long time is at 3 and has fallen off the face of the planet (that same that holds for Transmigration Prophecy).   

[evilfusion]

No, WHY is this even discussed this card needs to go to 3 so it can fall off the face of the planet.  

"considering it is a REALLY relevant move." 
STOP!  HOLD!  NO MORE!

 

This card will fall OFF the face of the planet within a week after the ban list, then it will become unlimited (after not a single player uses it) and a lot of players won't even notice it on the "No longer on the list" section.  

 

No one is talking about it b/c everyone was expecting this... well as I see now... ALMOST everyone. Yeah I'm looking at you.

 

Okay, I'm going to formally request you to adjust your tone. Your recent posts are bizarrely condescending (which hits like 3 levels of irony when you're talking to Black), but not actually contributing to the discussions. It's perfectly fine if you disagree with someone's opinion, or if you believe a card will have no relevance in the upcoming meta, but actually explain your rationale.

[Kingdom Xathers]

Be pro and combo it with Transmigration Break--*shot*

OT: I don't think recycling 1 copy with another is going to be that much of an issue giving the current speed of the game. In fact, you're pretty much harming yourself by doing that since you're fattening your Deck and hurting your consistency in doing so, which is not worth getting back a Transmigration for. It's better to bounce back four of your opponent's Grave cards than even one of yours (unless there's a specific card that you'd really rather have back in your Deck, which I doubt). If you're that hell-bent on recycling this card, you're better of using Mask of Darkness, and even then, you most likely have other Traps that you'd rather grab back before this. Not to mention that Mask has been pretty much in the same boat for years that Magician of Faith has now boarded.

[LeLukeX]

Okay, I'm going to formally request you to adjust your tone. Your recent posts are bizarrely condescending (which hits like 3 levels of irony when you're talking to Black), but not actually contributing to the discussions. It's perfectly fine if you disagree with someone's opinion, or if you believe a card will have no relevance in the upcoming meta, but actually explain your rationale.

Okay fair enough...

But omg, I really have to explain this?  This card is soooooo slow...

He even said it himself "basically a worse Crow"  And Crow is seeing minimal to moderate Side Deck play.  

D.D. Crow        Vs.          TMP
Hand Trap                      Actual Trap        Crow Wins

Banishes                        Recylces            Crow Wins

Monster                          Not a monster    Crow Wins

Targets 1                        Targets 2          TMP wins

 

Must I continue?

[Blake]

Okay fair enough...

But omg, I really have to explain this?  This card is soooooo slow...

He even said it himself "basically a worse Crow"  And Crow is seeing minimal to moderate Side Deck play.  

D.D. Crow        Vs.          TMP
Hand Trap                      Actual Trap        Crow Wins

Banishes                        Recylces            Crow Wins

Monster                          Not a monster    Crow Wins

Targets 1                        Targets 2          TMP wins

 

Must I continue?

Yes, because you've explained nothing.

 

Trap is not strictly inferior. It's slower, but it hits more and more effectively.

 

Yes, it can shove problem cards back into the deck (Shaddoll Fusion), but that's still out of reach. And in some cases, such as spinning a monster to the deck, it causes the effect to fade away. Shaddolls, Burning Abyss, etc. That makes it potentially superior to banishing.

 

Being a monster doesn't make it better when its stats are useless in almost everything. That's actually an incredibly weak point, because Veiler being a monster is only really relevant because it's a Tuner.

 

I said it was basically a worse Crow @1. At 2, it's actually usable.

 

So, please supply real arguments and not half-assed ones that lack any explanation or true content, or just get out. Either is fine by me.

[Wildflame]

Crow is much harder to anticipate/negate than this, though. Gotta give it that.

 

But yeah, this being at 2 instead of 1 is really relevant.

[Expelsword]

Wasn't this a staple in LS decks so they would never mill out or something?

I dunno, that was the format I was still running a 60CTH deck.

 

In any case, what with the Graveyard basically being a second hand now, it may have some merit in the side.

[Maeriberii Haan]

I remember when I mained this in REDU Madolche to keep my grave clean.

 

good times.

 

And now it puts in heavy work against anything not named Qliphort the Big Brown Fort.

[LeLukeX]

Yes, because you've explained nothing.

 

Trap is not strictly inferior. It's slower, but it hits more and more effectively.

 

Yes, it can shove problem cards back into the deck (Shaddoll Fusion), but that's still out of reach. And in some cases, such as spinning a monster to the deck, it causes the effect to fade away. Shaddolls, Burning Abyss, etc. That makes it potentially superior to banishing.

 

Being a monster doesn't make it better when its stats are useless in almost everything. That's actually an incredibly weak point, because Veiler being a monster is only really relevant because it's a Tuner.

 

I said it was basically a worse Crow @1. At 2, it's actually usable.

 

So, please supply real arguments and not half-assed ones that lack any explanation or true content, or just get out. Either is fine by me.

Look, if a card is simply better than another and sees little play, I don't NEED evidence to support what I'm saying.  For example, if a card came out that was like Mirror Force except you had to pay 1000 LP to activate it I could simply say MF is better, MF sees little play, as a result, this will see no play.  

These arguments aren't half-assed.  The argument just argues against what you believe and as a result, you don't like them.

 

Putting this card as two in NO way makes it more usable, oh my god.  

 

If the recycling 2 was good enough to see play it would see play at 1.  

If the spinning 2 opponent's monsters and screwing opp over was good enough to see play it would see play at 1.

 

So that leaves the last factor, does this card STACK?  And the only possible way it stacks is if it recycles itself.  This card recycling itself is as Irrelevant as Primal Seed adding itself.  Why?  B/c recycling itself does NOTHING.  Firstly, you have to draw BOTH these cards.  Secondly, let's say you do recycle another copy?  What THEN?  No way to search it, and I hope you're not honestly going to suggest I wait to redraw it.  That would take ages, and I can PROVE this too.  Is WireTap an effective counter to Solemn Warning?  Yes, yes it is.  Even though Warning is Super Powerful players Gladly put that back in the Deck b/c cards that go back in the Deck are out of sight out of mind.  You shuffling back in one copy of TMP means this card will probably never EVER see the day of light in that duel again.  

Before you come back and counter:  "But now that there's two players will be more inclined to use it b/c it's better at two b/c recycling."  
That's just not true, if an effect fails to see play at 1 it will NEVER EVER (and I mean EVER) see play at 2-3, except if the card itself STACKS, and TMP does NOT stack, Yugioh have evolved so far long ago that this is out of the question...    

[Blake]

Look, if a card is simply better than another and sees little play, I don't NEED evidence to support what I'm saying.  For example, if a card came out that was like Mirror Force except you had to pay 1000 LP to activate it I could simply say MF is better, MF sees little play, as a result, this will see no play.

That comparison doesn't even make sense...

These arguments aren't half-assed.  The argument just argues against what you believe and as a result, you don't like them.

Um... your entire case against me so far is a comparison that makes absolutely 0 sense and "well i'm right you're wrong". Good start!
 

Putting this card as two in NO way makes it more usable, oh my god.  
 
If the recycling 2 was good enough to see play it would see play at 1.  
If the spinning 2 opponent's monsters and screwing opp over was good enough to see play it would see play at 1.

And now you're proving ignorant of deckbuilding.

Why is it worth it at 2? Because you'll see it more often. At 1, it's not a consistent enough card to see to even consider, but in a format like we have now, it is relevant when it's at 2. There are a lot of cards that aren't worth running as 1-ofs, but are definitely worth in higher numbers. It doesn't have to do with its interaction with itself, it has to do with the fact that you now have twice as many copies of it. Would you run just 1 Veiler, for example? No, not really.

Let's apply percentages here, shall we? I'll simply used 5 card opening hands to illustrate.

With no Duality/Upstart/Other deck thin, you have a 12.5% chance of seeing this turn 1.

Same situation with another copy, you have a 23~% chance of opening at least 1 of your 2 Transmigration.

Now, this is merely opening hands, but the math pretty clearly shows that you have a significantly better chance of hitting 2 copies than 1; Hell, this is common sense, I shouldn't have to spell that out.

So that leaves the last factor, does this card STACK?  And the only possible way it stacks is if it recycles itself.  This card recycling itself is as Irrelevant as Primal Seed adding itself.  Why?  B/c recycling itself does NOTHING.  Firstly, you have to draw BOTH these cards.  Secondly, let's say you do recycle another copy?  What THEN?  No way to search it, and I hope you're not honestly going to suggest I wait to redraw it.  That would take ages, and I can PROVE this too.  Is WireTap an effective counter to Solemn Warning?  Yes, yes it is.  Even though Warning is Super Powerful players Gladly put that back in the Deck b/c cards that go back in the Deck are out of sight out of mind.  You shuffling back in one copy of TMP means this card will probably never EVER see the day of light in that duel again.

What "last factor"? You have yet to properly dismiss the first in any fashion.

idgi what does stacking have to do with anything. This is an argument out of left field that has no merit. Does Crow "stack"?

Why are you so insistent on looping? Not once did I mention it, and it comes across as a desperate attempt to shove something I did not say into my mouth to bolster your argument... but anyone can look back and see, plain as day, I didn't say that. Again, put up or shut up, because your attempt so far is laughable. You've ignored the meat of the argument for it in favor of arguing a point that you, yourself, call outdated.

Before you come back and counter:  "But now that there's two players will be more inclined to use it b/c it's better at two b/c recycling."  
That's just not true, if an effect fails to see play at 1 it will NEVER EVER (and I mean EVER) see play at 2-3, except if the card itself STACKS, and TMP does NOT stack, Yugioh have evolved so far long ago that this is out of the question...

All I'm going to say is that, again, you have yet to offer one real argument.

You have attempted to put words in my mouth that I did not say, and you failed to understand basic mathematics.

[Slinky]

Yes, because you've explained nothing.

 

Trap is not strictly inferior. It's slower, but it hits more and more effectively.

 

Yes, it can shove problem cards back into the deck (Shaddoll Fusion), but that's still out of reach. And in some cases, such as spinning a monster to the deck, it causes the effect to fade away. Shaddolls, Burning Abyss, etc. That makes it potentially superior to banishing.

 

Being a monster doesn't make it better when its stats are useless in almost everything. That's actually an incredibly weak point, because Veiler being a monster is only really relevant because it's a Tuner.

 

I said it was basically a worse Crow @1. At 2, it's actually usable.

 

So, please supply real arguments and not half-assed ones that lack any explanation or true content, or just get out. Either is fine by me.

 

In addition to this, it also makes various things fizzle when hit by a cost (such as Burning Abyss being discarded by the likes of PWWB or the not-really-relevant-anymore-mermails). And by fizzle, I mean, they can't activate in the first place.

Granted, Crow can do this too, but TMP also has the added benefit of recycling your staples (like Soul Charge), a trait Crow does not share.

[Daigusto Sphreez]

In addition to this, it also makes various things fizzle when hit by a cost (such as Burning Abyss being discarded by the likes of PWWB or the not-really-relevant-anymore-mermails). And by fizzle, I mean, they can't activate in the first place.

Granted, Crow can do this too, but TMP also has the added benefit of recycling your staples (like Soul Charge), a trait Crow does not share.

 

I don't think players will want to go -1 just to recycle a soul charge that they have a good chance of not redrawing. The card is useful in principle of course, but unless you draw it early it probably won't have much impact. 

[Slinky]

I don't think players will want to go -1 just to recycle a soul charge that they have a good chance of not redrawing. The card is useful in principle of course, but unless you draw it early it probably won't have much impact. 

 

Its not a -1 if you're also stopping their play. I clearly said "added benefit". No actual player worth his salt is going to blindly activate it without a reason.

[Maeriberii Haan]

it could technically also be used as a really emergency-use economic -1 slow inferior Avarice if that's actually necessary.

 

But the other uses are usually better depending on situation.

[Bringerofcake]

Against Burning Abyss it kills Scarm plays stone dead. Against Shaddolls it spins away Fusion before they can put them in hand. Satellars lose Altair targets and yang zing laugh at it but that's ok because it hits 3/4 of the big uns. I prefer not to think of this card as a crow but a rhapsody in terms of what it can do as well as its applications.

[Daigusto Sphreez]

Its not a -1 if you're also stopping their play. I clearly said "added benefit". No actual player worth his salt is going to blindly activate it without a reason.

 

Of course, but as a trap it is inherently slow and has more select use as the game goes on. Vanitys Emptiness has more versatile stun which can answer for a lot of what Tranmigration does IMO. 

[Trebuchet MS]

So?  What does this accomplish?  That fact is so irrelavant.  On a similar note!  Primal Seed (etc)  

I agree that juggling Transmigration Prophecies is quite slow and doesn't do anything explosive unlike Primal Seed loops, but that's more or less the only reason I can think of that explains why it was previously put to 1.

[Expelsword]

I agree that juggling Transmigration Prophecies is quite slow and doesn't do anything explosive unlike Primal Seed loops, but that's more or less the only reason I can think of that explains why it was previously put to 1.

 

Konami is scared to death of "Infinite" "Loops".

[Maeriberii Haan]

Yeah, ''loops''.

Speaking of loops, this breaks the Cir-Dante defensive loop, so I love it.

[Ultravires]

 

No, WHY is this even discussed this card needs to go to 3 so it can fall off the face of the planet.  

"considering it is a REALLY relevant move." 
STOP!  HOLD!  NO MORE!

 

This card will fall OFF the face of the planet within a week after the ban list, then it will become unlimited (after not a single player uses it) and a lot of players won't even notice it on the "No longer on the list" section.  

 

No one is talking about it b/c everyone was expecting this... well as I see now... ALMOST everyone. Yeah I'm looking at you.

 

TTP going to 2 is very relevant against certain match-ups, as it shuts down multiple potential plays singlehandedly. It's a tech choice side card, of course it's not going to be talked about a ton.

 

 

So?  What does this accomplish?  That fact is so irrelavant.  On a similar note!  Primal Seed was actually hit for this reason and I believe you are thinking about Primal Seed when you made this statement.  This x2 + Macro Cosmos  = All banished cards to your hand.  And Macro was at 3, Fissure was at 3, so you can only imagine the horrors of getting an early macro and recycling EVERYTHING (something like Upstart Goblin would let you draw whole Deck and Limiter Removal would let you Boost to infinity).  And even Primal Seed which was at limited for a long time is at 3 and has fallen off the face of the planet (that same that holds for Transmigration Prophecy).   

 

 

Are you really comparing TTP to an FTK card?

 

Okay fair enough...

But omg, I really have to explain this?  This card is soooooo slow...

He even said it himself "basically a worse Crow"  And Crow is seeing minimal to moderate Side Deck play.  

D.D. Crow        Vs.          TMP
Hand Trap                      Actual Trap        Crow Wins

Banishes                        Recylces            Crow Wins

Monster                          Not a monster    Crow Wins

Targets 1                        Targets 2          TMP wins

 

Must I continue?

 

 

This is so wrong and you are so casual it's not funny.

Handtrap versus chainable Trap = no clear winner.

 

Banish versus spin = in some cases Crow is better, in others Transmigration gives them s*** for topdecks.

 

Monster versus not a monster = Are you dense? Divine Wrath is seeing a ton of play right now. When was the last time you summoned D.D. Crow?

Targets 1 versus targets 2 = You're oversimplifying this. You can recycle your own combo pieces with TTP as well as power cards like Charge. Crow does one thing and does it well, whereas TTP is more versatile.

 

Let's take some examples into account.

 

Dante in grave. They pitch Scarm and Cir for things. What card does more work, Crow or TTP?

You've been grinding for days and both you and the opponent have run out of plays to make. You still have Merlin or Medraut + Arms or something in hand but no targets in deck to make a decent push. Would you rather draw into Crow or TTP?

You Breakthrough + TT an established Shaddoll board off the field. They get a Fusion and El Fusion or Core back. Crow or TTP? Even if they draw into it, you just blew their draw for turn.