Konami should get rid of Starter Decks

[Just Crouton]

I write this with players new to the game in mind, and not existing players who may buy Starter Decks for specific reprints or the new cards.

 

Konami seems to be going back the right track by releasing the Lightsworn and Geargia Structure Decks.

 

Structure Decks are great for both new players and current. They make deck-building far more convenient. The constant releases of constructed decks in Cardfight and Buddyfight (Cardfight in it's 4th season alone has released at least six character decks, and one more to promote the upcoming movie) make it a lot easier to build decks like the ones on the show. Magic the Gathering may not be so incredible with their Intro Packs, but they at least give you plenty of lands for the colors you want, and decent spells (the Vs. Duel Decks especially come with power spells) for budget players.

 

But, back to Yu-Gi-Oh! and the island-sized turtle in the room.

 

Starter Decks are pointless.

 

Starter decks do not "start" new players on a right track, and do not have a strong direction, which leaves new players at a disadvantage.

 

Deck-building is one of the most important parts of a card game, and Starter Decks undermine it by not giving the player a real understanding of the game.

 

Let's look at the usual suspects reprinted each year.

 

 

These are some examples of junk that get reprinted over and over in the Starters since 2006.

 

What exactly does to these cards have to offer for a new player entering a game where players who can afford real decks will annihilate them in seconds?

 

The Starters seem to like vanillas. Except, pushing bad cards on new players is a bad idea.

 

Vanillas weren't even worth a look until Rescue Rabbit came out, and that was just for the Xyzs.

 

Vanillas contribute nothing to a game with robot space Jews and evil puppets with hexproof.

 

 

 

Yu-Gi-Oh! is about archetypes (and FTKs, and Chain Burn, and other decks player hate,) both the anime and the TCG alike. What does a Starter Deck full of random cards serve to teach new players this?

 

Starter Decks are an easy way to get staple Spells and Traps, and exclusive cards like Crane Crane...except Structure Decks serve the same purpose, AND do it better.

 

The Marik Structure Deck from 2010 gave new players easy access to building Gravekeeper's, in addition to giving the player staple cards at the time (Mirror Force, Book of Moon, Mystical Space Typhoon.) It also came with Temple of the Kings for players who like to collect.

 

The TCG is based on a TV show. Konami did make character Structures for the main characters during the Duelist Kingdom and Battle City arcs, which each contained staple cards.

 

That said, Why is Konami pushing an annual random messes with vanillas and the era's Extra Deck mechanic over, say, Yuma's random mess of syllables for new players who watched the show and decided to get a Starter?

 

For a yearly starter deck, why not an updated Structure Deck for the protagonist's archetype? Surprisingly, the V for Victory Starter is the only one that somewhat fit this criteria by being Yuma-heavy. But then, Space-Time Showdown went back to randomness.

 

Space-Time Showdown could've easily been a Perfomapal Structure with Odd-Eyes Dragon as the deck boss, and the two Magician Pendulums as the new cards people want. Konami could release the bad to decent Perfomapals (including at least 1 high DEF monster to show in the rulebook,) at least two Perfomapal Pendulums to emphasize the new mechanic, exclusive support (preferably one that interacts with the Pendulums and Odd-Eyes,) and put the shinies in the booster pack.

 

Even if Performapals aren't the best, the Pendulums are the deck's selling points, and new players will have a direction for their decks (Stat-hacking according to the wiki.)

 

The first Starter Deck of each era since 5D's is focused on the new mechanic of that series. But, so are the protagonist's decks in the series. So, a Structure heavy in that mechanic is far better than a mess of random cards with a few cards related to the new game mechanic.

 

And, that's where Structure Decks have succeeded, and where Starter Decks have failed.

 

Structure decks are a tool to help players find the deck they want to play and invest money in.

 

Structure decks give the player a direction.

 

The Machina Structure released in 2009 is one of the finest examples of this.

 

You buy three boxes, run the best cards from the pile, and buy staples and other cards from the packs to make it optimal.

 

Konami should've taken it a step further by releasing more Machina in the booster pack to raise interest in the packs as well. Give them a Tuner and Synchro. Make them more consistent.

 

Fast-forward to this year with the Lightsworn Structure. Konami has taken one of the most-hated decks in the community, and made them budget-friendly ($30.) This is a stunning moment of genius for Konami. New players not only have access to one of the most salt-inducing decks ever, but they have an easy way to build a great deck with just the cards in the box.

 

The Machina and Lightsworn structures have shown that structure decks are ideal for budget players.

 

 

 

"HELP! I'M TOO LAZY AND DIDN'T READ!"

 

Starter Decks should be abandoned, and instead Structure Decks based on character and game-only archetypes should be released in their place.

 

Starter Decks provide nothing that Structure Decks can provide better. Generic, staple cards can be made accessible in Structure Decks as easily as Starter Decks. The basic rules of the game can be as easily taught with a Structure as a Starter.

 

For $10, Starter Decks provide no solid direction in deckbuilding for a new player. That's bad in any card game, especially one where deck-building is meant to be as easy and linear as possible.

[Goose]

Starter decks should instead be filled with staple and splashable cards  so that they really help people start.

[Just Crouton]

Starter decks should instead be filled with staple and splashable cards  so that they really help people start.

 

You mean like, Konami analyzes the meta, then reprints current staples?

[Goose]

The meta doesn't need to be analyzed really. A quick glance at top decks will show what cards are splashable.  Things lie MST, Duality, Lance, Book, Dark Hole, BTH, Compulse, DPrison, Warning, TGU, Maxx C, Rai Oh, Veiler and probably other splashable cards.  

[Agro]

If they print the expensive extra deck bullshit, I'm all for it.

[Hunduel]

I totally agree with each points of OP. Starter Decks and editions are pointless. Look at how even Magic get rid of Core Set, and CF:V, and lots of other games didn't even have Starter Decks in a form Yu-Gi-Oh! has. They should concentrate more on the Structure Decks, or, if they really want to keep Starter Decks, they should do two things:

 

- It should contain (semi-)staples, or at least good cards. For a new player, even though it is important to show each aspects of the game and being as simple as possible (that's why they include Vanillas), but being too simple is just pointless and won't courage the player to evolve. These decks don't have to be Top or High tier decks, but they should at least have a chance against a good deck. Current decks they are creating in both real life and even video games don't even have a chance against a weak opponent. In my opinion, Dragons Collide could work as a Starter Deck too.

- Create new cards and/or archetypes. This is, in my opinion, the best way to sell a Starter Deck. There are so many unreleased cards from both the anime and manga, or they could even create special cards just for the starter. Imagine if they would release the Fossil archetype from GX, or create a new archetype featuring pirate dinosaurs. They don't have to be competitive, they don't have to be complete, but they must be refreshing for both new players and collectors.

 

I intentionally missed the point of making archetype starter decks. It's just easier to get rid of starters in this case.

[Neutrality Man]

Because not everyone plays on the competitive level and thus won't face those $$$$$$$$ decks, moron. Some of us play this game because it's a game. A time-passer. A key element of that is that "game" implies fun. Facing the same 6 decks for a year, and then 4 of those with 2 newbies the next is BORING.

 

Space-Time Showdown, the same Starter you mentioned in OP, has cards based on the Power Rangers (or Super Sentai, take your pick.) in it. THAT, not the Gazer magicians, is why I bought 3 of it. The "Random s***" cards are more interesting.

[Flash Flyer - Sakura]

OP has a point.

Most, if not all of the Starter Decks lately, have the same things reprinted every year. After a while, it gets boring to see the same old things in them.

 

Yes, they're for beginners and for the start of the new series, introduce their new mechanic, but the least Konami can do is try to change stuff around each time. If they want to make a starter, they could just build them off of the main protagonist's Deck to a minor extent. Or as Ferenc/Goose mentioned, add some good cards in there that actually work (staples/splashable things). Not saying they have to reprint meta-worthy cards, but at least something to help new members get started.

 

(Heck, I haven't bought a starter since Dawn of the Xyz in what, 2011/2012-ish, because of the monotomy). Can't really speak for the Yugi/Kaiba Reloaded ones [they have some relevant things in them, but I don't know]. Granted, Space-Time does have those Super Packs that guarantees a Dark Hole and Yuya's "pre-evolved" ace, if that does anything to make it look better than the other starters.

 

Structure decks are still several times better IMO; at least they contain a few good cards [i.e. Mirror Force, the LS one has Breakthrough Skill and some other staples / splashables that should be used]. Of course, the last couple SDs have been theme-based to an extent (LS, Blue-Eyes, CyDra, Chaos Dragon, HERO [Japan], Geargias [upcoming USA]), but they at least give an idea of what's popular (or actually has a decent chance of survival). These, I don't mind spending $10 each on (maybe duplicates if copies of said cards can make a powerful Deck on their own).

 

It's more of a money thing on Konami's end; they reprint the good cards too much; they lose money on the cards in their original "high" rarities. Then again, they made a reprint of JD for the LS deck, and it's going for what, $40-50 a copy in its original Ultra/Secret forms.

 

If they print the expensive extra deck bullshit, I'm all for it.

Same here.

If they raise the price of the Decks because they reprint stuff like 101/Exciton/Dracossack and everything else for these Decks, I won't mind too much.

 

They're worth it.

 

 

(And I rarely post in this section...)

[J-Max]

I agree totally but Starter Decks are made for a reason. We had new Lightsworns recently so what better way to inttroduce them then with a Starter? Also Starter Decks contai a few of the more desirable cards meaning that people on a Budget can buy 3 of them if needed.

 

If Konami really wants to boost sales then I would suggest Boosters tailored to a certain Archetype or Boosters containing just Spells or Traps.

[Greiga]

I agree totally but Starter Decks are made for a reason. We had new Lightsworns recently so what better way to inttroduce them then with a Starter? Also Starter Decks contai a few of the more desirable cards meaning that people on a Budget can buy 3 of them if needed.

If Konami really wants to boost sales then I would suggest Boosters tailored to a certain Archetype or Boosters containing just Spells or Traps.

They're saying that the same good cards, like Supply Squad, MST, T-Roar, etc., can all be printed in structure decks just as easily.

I don't understand your Lightsworn comment so I won't go there.

[Neutrality Man]

I agree totally but Starter Decks are made for a reason. We had new Lightsworns recently so what better way to inttroduce them then with a Starter? Also Starter Decks contai a few of the more desirable cards meaning that people on a Budget can buy 3 of them if needed.

 

If Konami really wants to boost sales then I would suggest Boosters tailored to a certain Archetype or Boosters containing just Spells or Traps.

The Sacksworn deck is a Structure, not a Starter.

[Zimerick-Art]

Considering you brought up the fact Space-Time Showdown should have been a Performapal deck, I feel that instead of making a random starter deck for 2015 they could make one based on Performapal's since it's Yuya's main archetype in his deck. Since the archetype consists of mostly Pendulum monsters already, two of the main Pendulum's could be Turn Toad and maybe Silver Claw (which would be a good way to bring it to the TCG instead of having it as a Promo Card) and then have other useful Performapal's to fill up the deck. . 

[Just Crouton]

Because not everyone plays on the competitive level and thus won't face those $$$$$$$$ decks, moron. Some of us play this game because it's a game. A time-passer. A key element of that is that "game" implies fun. Facing the same 6 decks for a year, and then 4 of those with 2 newbies the next is BORING.

 

Space-Time Showdown, the same Starter you mentioned in OP, has cards based on the Power Rangers (or Super Sentai, take your pick.) in it. THAT, not the Gazer magicians, is why I bought 3 of it. The "Random s***" cards are more interesting.

 

So, your argument for Starter Decks is that a casual player can't have fun with a decent deck, or play a good deck outside of competitive play because they like it?

 

I don't see how Yu-Gi-Oh! being a game and a "time-passer" means that Konami shouldn't be selling constructed decks to help new players learn how to deckbuild and play well instead of random cards + a few cards from the show.

 

A company that sell card games should work to help their playerbase become better instead of playing randomness under the mantra of "creativity," then whining about losing to a good deck. Otherwise, Magic would also have a pretty garbage playerbase of hipster pricks playing "creative" messes and shaming netdeckers.

 

 

I agree totally but Starter Decks are made for a reason. We had new Lightsworns recently so what better way to inttroduce them then with a Starter?

 

Structure Decks introduce players to the most important part of card games: Deck-building.

 

Starter Decks only teach gameplay, something that Structure Decks do better.

 

And, why should new players get a Starter when they can get the more consistent Lightsworns?

 

 

 

If they print the expensive extra deck bullshit, I'm all for it.

 

Well, 1 of each per deck, of course cuz buying multiple boxes.

Considering you brought up the fact Space-Time Showdown should have been a Performapal deck, I feel that instead of making a random starter deck for 2015 they could make one based on Performapal's since it's Yuya's main archetype in his deck. Since the archetype consists of mostly Pendulum monsters already, two of the main Pendulum's could be Turn Toad and maybe Silver Claw (which would be a good way to bring it to the TCG instead of having it as a Promo Card) and then have other useful Performapal's to fill up the deck. . 

 

They really should do this.

 

Since OEPD came out this year, they could also reprint it for the Structure.

[JadenxAtemYAOI]

Let's see.

http://www.yugioh-card.com/en/products/superstarter2014.html

12.99 which is the starter deck.

http://www.yugioh-card.com/en/products/sd-sdli.html

9.99

 

The more competitive deck is cheaper. Takes less than $30 to make a Lightsworn deck that is good enough for competitive and casual. You don't need to fork over big bucks. The starter decks' only real use is to introduce character decks and make their respective ace monsters easier to obtain. Aside from that they're garbage and overall harmful to the fanbase. Yes, we have casuals who are in just for fun and passing time but keep in mind that being a casual also includes the desire to collect different cards. What does that mean? It means you're willing to fork over the money for extra cards. You don't like collecting random cards and want good cards to use against friends? Sounds competitive. Sure you can have your casual duels but there is still the competitive feeling. Both of you want to win. Arguing against the OP's beliefs is kinda moot anyway. If you can find someone that topped YCS in the past three years with a starter deck(not structure) with no modifications aside from sleeves then I will eat my left shoe.

[Marco Polo]

It depends on the player's environment.

i.e kids, won't enjoy our overcomplex 'corrupted' meta, OTKs, etc. it's too fast and not enjoyable enough.

they might even hate the game. because it's no actual fun when duels take just 4 turns and you face the same 5 decks over and over again.

instead, kids will have much more fun playing a long friendly and uncompetitive match with their friends, tribute Summons for vanillas might even make them feel rewarded with something?

 

Do you really think 7-10 year olds should go buy Lightsworns and reigster to a tournament? hell, they shouldn't even be aware of the phrase "engine" / "+1" :neutral:

I understand we can't control the game and the formats are ridiculously fast today, and it's okay but unless they play tournaments there's no reason to make them go buy meta stuff. let them play a fun, varied game.

if they play in tournamets, they'll probably be told to stay off starter decks and somebody will probably advise them on what to buy instead.. \:

 

EDIT: forget I said 7-10, nobody forces anyone to play competitive. unless you're playing tournaments - you're bound to nothing. you're like trying to convert people who are just playing this game as a time-passer to drool in the depths of this meta - who told you they'd feel better playing it anyway?

[Neutrality Man]

It depends on the player's environment.

i.e kids, won't enjoy our overcomplex 'corrupted' meta, OTKs, etc. it's too fast and not enjoyable enough.

they might even hate the game. because it's no actual fun when duels take just 4 turns and you face the same 5 decks over and over again.

instead, kids will have much more fun playing a long friendly and uncompetitive match with their friends, tribute Summons for vanillas might even make them feel rewarded with something?

 

Do you really think 7-10 year olds should go buy Lightsworns and reigster to a tournament? hell, they shouldn't even be aware of the phrase "engine" / "+1" :neutral:

I understand we can't control the game and the formats are ridiculously fast today, and it's okay but unless they play tournaments there's no reason to make them go buy meta stuff. let them play a fun, varied game.

if they play in tournamets, they'll probably be told to stay off starter decks and somebody will probably advise them on what to buy instead.. \:

 

EDIT: forget I said 7-10, nobody forces anyone to play competitive. unless you're playing tournaments - you're bound to nothing. you're like trying to convert people who are just playing this game as a time-passer to drool in the depths of this meta - who told you they'd feel better playing it anyway?

This is what I was trying and failing to say. Thank you for being more articulate than myself.

[Just Crouton]

It depends on the player's environment.

i.e kids, won't enjoy our overcomplex 'corrupted' meta, OTKs, etc. it's too fast and not enjoyable enough.

they might even hate the game. because it's no actual fun when duels take just 4 turns and you face the same 5 decks over and over again.

instead, kids will have much more fun playing a long friendly and uncompetitive match with their friends, tribute Summons for vanillas might even make them feel rewarded with something?

 

Do you really think 7-10 year olds should go buy Lightsworns and reigster to a tournament? hell, they shouldn't even be aware of the phrase "engine" / "+1" :neutral:

I understand we can't control the game and the formats are ridiculously fast today, and it's okay but unless they play tournaments there's no reason to make them go buy meta stuff. let them play a fun, varied game.

if they play in tournamets, they'll probably be told to stay off starter decks and somebody will probably advise them on what to buy instead.. \:

 

EDIT: forget I said 7-10, nobody forces anyone to play competitive. unless you're playing tournaments - you're bound to nothing. you're like trying to convert people who are just playing this game as a time-passer to drool in the depths of this meta - who told you they'd feel better playing it anyway?

 

Again, why can't a person play a great deck and have fun at the same time?

 

Why can't a person pass the time with a deck that isn't a random mess?

 

Why can't players understand things like deck-building, engines, and card advantage and still be able to have fun and pass the time?

 

Fun is entirely subjective, and it varies from person to person.

 

Someone might actually have fun playing stuff like Lightsworns with friends outside of tournaments.

 

The point of getting rid of Starters and pushing Structures isn't to push players into tournaments. It's to help new players understand deck-building, give them great cards to start with, and allow them to play on a smaller budget (especially older decks like Crystal Beasts and whatnot.)

[JadenxAtemYAOI]

There are also 7-10 year olds that understand the mathematical algorithms in the Junior divisions for Pokemon. No need to discriminate based on age. If there are 7-10 that can understand IV breeding, its formulas, the chances, and go on to train the effort values correctly to their satisfaction, I'm sure they can understand meta and +1s.

[Sleepy]

I agree with the OP all the way.

 

One of the biggest issues I've found in Starter Decks is their level of power.

You want to give us Shadolls and Tellarknights as the decks to run nowadays, but you'll start us off with Mystical Elf and Dark Blade? I really feel shame whenever I've ever brought even a casual deck like Crystal Beasts (with Queen and Psychics, not even the better build used nowadays) to a store, and had a kid that bought a starter deck ask me to play with him. I know the kid will most likely not have fun being utterly destroyed and find out how outclassed everything about his deck is, or how if he wants to start winning at least to my random decks, he'll pretty much have to replace 90% of the cards in his deck.

 

I'd want to be following a game in which casual players starting in the game could just get a pre-constructed intro deck (one, not 3 copies to assemble something on the spot, just one), and at least give me somewhat of a fight to a degree where it's not stupidly discouraging.
Rather than what we have, where kid buying starter deck will get random pile of crap that was decent 12 years ago, and will potentially be facing spam and OTK decks full of what will look like bullshit squared in comparison.

 

Structured Decks kinda do that already, don't they? If I had to say something that's needed, is that Konami for the most part reserves Extra Deck pieces to Starter Decks, and that could be easily changed, and most likely should be.

 

 

 

Second problem: The lack of innovation as said above.

If they are gonna reprint cards that aren't even used anywhere nowadays, the least they could do is give us alternate arts for them, and I mean "the least" because ideally, they shouldn't be reprinting so much of the same product with zero demand to begin with, and should give some staples. Doesn't have to be expensive new ones they are still pushing, but Call of the Haunted, Torrential, even Warning, could be nice, and being staples would allow them to be pretty self sufficient and therefore somewhat simplistic cards in terms of random content that is functional. Kinda like a sort of core base set I suppose.....

 

 

 

 

Btw, I need to point out I believe the Space Time showdown is one of the worst decks I've ever seen regarding the intended introduction to a new mechanic. At least the Synchro and Xyz Starters had the advantage that their cards were always accessible as long as the easy-enough materials could be met. Meanwhile, Pendulums need to be drawn into, and with only 2 of them to work with, it won't happen too often. I personally bought 2 copies of them (for the Squads mostly) and mixed them with all 4 Pendulums (2 of each) and still would take a long time to draw into the full arc. Even when I did, there is probably a single monster in that deck that gains something out of being Pendulum Summoned, and Pendulum Summoning will mostly always drain the hand in one go because everything Summonable in it is non-Pendulum due to the lack of Pendulum Cards in it.

 

Konami addressed it as if it was another Extra Deck mechanic of easy access, and so just added 2 or 3 pieces into a random mess and called it a day. The deck needed at least 4 to 6 Pendulums to really somewhat work, even if said monsters would only be good for replenish-able Tribute fodder, it'd be a fair intro. Possibly it also needed a searcher since the only one they really have is a 22 dollar booster cover. Other than that the deck expects the test runs to draw from meat shields and Squad draws eventually. Not even with 2 Squads was it really consistent btw.

 

While at it, a Tuner and at least one of each advanced mechanics (Fusion, Synchro, Xyz), even uncompetitive ones made for the hell of it like a vanilla 2500 ATK beater Synchro or something along those lines, would have been pretty sweet to introduce the way said mechanics interact with Pendulums. It'd be like an all in one kit at least for introducing more than a single mechanic.

 

Then there's that random archetypes with no synergy. The Space-Time Showdown deck had those floaters that could at most search 1 of something else and were directly outclassed by other cards. I don't mind it being on the weak side a little, but those cards could hardly work together at all, and their mediocre effects also had nothing to do with the new mechanics they intended to introduce at all, nor did they further any sort of visible strategy save drawing with Squad after the single potential search of the floater. They even made sure the floaters couldn't search other floaters. It was just a set of "cool art" kind of cards. They could have and have been worse than that, but it's still far from ideal.