Flame Dragon Posted August 13, 2014 Report Share Posted August 13, 2014 Since this is kind of its own thing, I figured this is better as its own thread rather than being stuck onto either X/Y or OR/AS. So, with the start of the thread lets start the discussion on what smogon is currently up to: Banning Mega Mawile. Personally, I'm Pro Ban. Having Access to SubPunch keeps it from being hit by Will-O-Wisp, helps off set its slow speed (something Sucker Punch already does), and gives it access to an insanely powerful move in the form of Focus Punch. Few, if any, pokemon can take mutiple hits from her and this lets her do just that keep hitting and staying a live. Add on extra coverage moves like T-Punch, I-Punch, F-Fang, and Stone edge, as much as I love her, she has to go. At least normal Mawile has some use in RU or maybe UU since it has a solid type and two really good abilities in the form of Sheer Force and Intimidate. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Catman25 Posted August 13, 2014 Report Share Posted August 13, 2014 I haven't been around the competitive scene all that much recently, but Mega Mawile never seemed to be a problem. I used to run Sucker Punch, and most people I faced also did, which was pretty easy to play around. Never really ran into the SubPunch variant, but at first glance doesn't seem ban worthy imo. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LordCowCowCowCowCowCowCowCow Posted August 13, 2014 Report Share Posted August 13, 2014 Mega Mawile? Really? Huh...I mean, it's strong, but most ground or fire attacks wreck it. Never saw SubPunch being used however, so I can't comment on that. But wouldn't it be better to just ban the combination in that case? Klefki wasn't banned because of Swagger Foul Play, just the combination of those moves were banned right? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
evilfusion Posted August 13, 2014 Report Share Posted August 13, 2014 Mega Mawile? Really? Huh...I mean, it's strong, but most ground or fire attacks wreck it. Never saw SubPunch being used however, so I can't comment on that. But wouldn't it be better to just ban the combination in that case? Klefki wasn't banned because of Swagger Foul Play, just the combination of those moves were banned right? Last I checked, Swagger itself got banned. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LordCowCowCowCowCowCowCowCow Posted August 14, 2014 Report Share Posted August 14, 2014 Last I checked, Swagger itself got banned. Oh. That makes things a bit different. But even so, I'm pretty sure they can just ban Sub/Focus Punch if it's causing so much trouble. I can't see any other reason you'd need to ban Mega-Mawile. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kazooie Posted August 14, 2014 Report Share Posted August 14, 2014 Personally I'm not too invested in Mega Mawile so I'm just gonna throw in that if anyone is looking for a game or something, feel free to message me. I'm a bit out of practice though, so keep that in mind. Depending on what tier you're looking to play, I might not have a team made, so if I don't I'll try to build one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Agro Posted August 14, 2014 Report Share Posted August 14, 2014 I make competitive mons and teams in the games, but i have no idea whether Mega Mawile should be banned :'D Personally I'm not too invested in Mega Mawile so I'm just gonna throw in that if anyone is looking for a game or something, feel free to message me. I'm a bit out of practice though, so keep that in mind. Depending on what tier you're looking to play, I might not have a team made, so if I don't I'll try to build one. oh you Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maeriberii Haan Posted August 14, 2014 Report Share Posted August 14, 2014 Moving out from OU a bit, and into Ubers. Maga Gengar/Gengarite/Shadow Tag is being suspect-tested in Ubers, which would actually made it the first form of pokemon to actually be banned in ubers if Gengarite got the axe. This could also warrant some discussion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darj Posted August 14, 2014 Report Share Posted August 14, 2014 I am not quite the competitive battler, but I understand the theory (I know about EVs, tiers, concepts like "sweeper", etc.), play against friends with EV trained Pokemon, and occasionally check the Smogon forums or watch Showdown to stay up to date. That said, last thing I read was that they banned Aegislash, and I had no idea of the mega Mawile ban nor its SubPunch set. Personally I am fine with the ban: I always found it difficult to deal with its Sucker Punch after a Swords Dance. But to be fair, I don't play with teams designed for OU, but with my favorite Pokemon, who usually lack synergy, and that may explain the trouble I had against Mawile. I'm also biased because I am not a fan of Megas in the competitive environment: I know it is not the case for all of them, but I feel they are more powerful than the standard OU Pokemon, as Mega Gengar, Kangashkan and Lucario have proved. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Catman25 Posted August 14, 2014 Report Share Posted August 14, 2014 Woah wait, Aegislash was banned? What for? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flame Dragon Posted August 14, 2014 Author Report Share Posted August 14, 2014 Oh. That makes things a bit different. But even so, I'm pretty sure they can just ban Sub/Focus Punch if it's causing so much trouble. I can't see any other reason you'd need to ban Mega-Mawile. Complicated bans like that aren't worth while imo since they just open up a big can of worms. We had it with Swift Swim + Drizzle and I thought it was really dumb. And yea, I think the SubPunch set pushes it over the edge. It doesn't help that one of the only pokemon that doesn't mind switching in on M-Mawile that much is Aegis and he is now banned. Moving out from OU a bit, and into Ubers. Maga Gengar/Gengarite/Shadow Tag is being suspect-tested in Ubers, which would actually made it the first form of pokemon to actually be banned in ubers if Gengarite got the axe. This could also warrant some discussion. I think the thing that keeps Shadow Tag Gengar in check some what is the fact that you don't start with it. Its powerful, but I don't think its any more powerful than the other things that go on in ubers. I am not quite the competitive battler, but I understand the theory (I know about EVs, tiers, concepts like "sweeper", etc.), play against friends with EV trained Pokemon, and occasionally check the Smogon forums or watch Showdown to stay up to date. That said, last thing I read was that they banned Aegislash, and I had no idea of the mega Mawile ban nor its SubPunch set. Personally I am fine with the ban: I always found it difficult to deal with its Sucker Punch after a Swords Dance. But to be fair, I don't play with teams designed for OU, but with my favorite Pokemon, who usually lack synergy, and that may explain the trouble I had against Mawile. I'm also biased because I am not a fan of Megas in the competitive environment: I know it is not the case for all of them, but I feel they are more powerful than the standard OU Pokemon, as Mega Gengar, Kangashkan and Lucario have proved. Mawileite isn't banned yet, but it seems pretty likely to go. I REALLY like Mega pokemon since it lets them push pokemon without teams just becoming a bunch of them. It also lts them push older pokemon. Some were certainly pushed too hard, but as a concept I really like what they can do with it. Woah wait, Aegislash was banned? What for? It basically has 600 Base Stat Points between its DEF and ATK stats. Add on the many sets it can run, it was found to be too good. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maeriberii Haan Posted August 14, 2014 Report Share Posted August 14, 2014 It basically has 600 Base Stat Points between its DEF and ATK stats. Add on the many sets it can run, it was found to be too good. *720 base stat. Also, Mega Gengar's reason for it being really problematic is how it will eliminate anything you'd ever wish in your opponent team with some simple plays, can run a shitton of sets to ensure whatever you need to die, die a horrible death, and is the perfect assassin pokemon. It's basically a confirmed elimination of at least 1 pokemon in your opponent's team of your choice, and in ubers, that could mean a lot since you can simply assassinate the counters to your overwhelmingly powerful sweepers easily to ensure a sweep. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flame Dragon Posted August 14, 2014 Author Report Share Posted August 14, 2014 *720 base stat. Also, Mega Gengar's reason for it being really problematic is how it will eliminate anything you'd ever wish in your opponent team with some simple plays, can run a shitton of sets to ensure whatever you need to die, die a horrible death, and is the perfect assassin pokemon. It's basically a confirmed elimination of at least 1 pokemon in your opponent's team of your choice, and in ubers, that could mean a lot since you can simply assassinate the counters to your overwhelmingly powerful sweepers easily to ensure a sweep. I couldn't remember what his HP and SPE so I went with just the ATK and DEF stats. I don't really know ubers that well, so my opinions don't count for much tbqh. I will give you that it is VERY powerful in the right hands. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maeriberii Haan Posted August 17, 2014 Report Share Posted August 17, 2014 Anyway, is there anyone here that's experienced in the doubles metagame? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flame Dragon Posted August 17, 2014 Author Report Share Posted August 17, 2014 I don't think many people here are. From what little I can tell from Smogon's sets though you want like all your pokemon to run protect. I am interesting in looking into it since that is the Worlds format. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maeriberii Haan Posted August 17, 2014 Report Share Posted August 17, 2014 From what I've seen so far, Spore and Mega Kanga is the metagame, and Char-Y is also up there for VGC meta. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Agro Posted August 17, 2014 Report Share Posted August 17, 2014 What's good at doubles? Whatever is good in singles except with a few different attacks. Double-focused moves, abilities and pokemon are generally still s***. Excluding broad attacking moves like EQ, Rock Slide, etc. of course. Rock Slide becomes very very good. Best Rock move, Talonflames and Charizard-Y's need to die quick or they'll wreck. What'll be good at worlds? Mega Kangaskhan. Talonflame, Gyarados, Mega Gengar, Mega Mawile, Aegislash, Ferrothorn. Ferrothorn and Garchomp with rocky helmet are very good because if they switch into a Mega Kangaskhan, they'll take out half its health without really taking anything. Lots of close to OU pokemon become a lot better in Doubles just because they'll have support on the field. For some reason I didn't see Speed Boost Blaziken at US Nats. Anyone know what's up with that? US Nats Top Teams: http://www.pokemon.com/us/play-pokemon/nationals/2014/teams/masters/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flame Dragon Posted August 18, 2014 Author Report Share Posted August 18, 2014 What's good at doubles? Whatever is good in singles except with a few different attacks. Double-focused moves, abilities and pokemon are generally still s***. Excluding broad attacking moves like EQ, Rock Slide, etc. of course. Rock Slide becomes very very good. Best Rock move, Talonflames and Charizard-Y's need to die quick or they'll wreck. What'll be good at worlds? Mega Kangaskhan. Talonflame, Gyarados, Mega Gengar, Mega Mawile, Aegislash, Ferrothorn. Ferrothorn and Garchomp with rocky helmet are very good because if they switch into a Mega Kangaskhan, they'll take out half its health without really taking anything. Lots of close to OU pokemon become a lot better in Doubles just because they'll have support on the field. For some reason I didn't see Speed Boost Blaziken at US Nats. Anyone know what's up with that? US Nats Top Teams: http://www.pokemon.com/us/play-pokemon/nationals/2014/teams/masters/ Blaziken is really frail so if both of the other pokemon choose to beat up on it, hes just going to die. I'd imagine bulk even more important in doubles than singles for this reason. Also why intimidate users are really helpful. In general, it seems doubles keep a lot more pokemon fair as compared to singles. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Agro Posted August 18, 2014 Report Share Posted August 18, 2014 Blaziken is less frail than Gengar and Talonflame tho and those two do just fine D: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flame Dragon Posted August 18, 2014 Author Report Share Posted August 18, 2014 Priority 120 move and Shadow Tag are just better than Speed Boost. Also, Trick Room is a lot more common in doubles. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Agro Posted August 18, 2014 Report Share Posted August 18, 2014 Oh wait, is this whole Pachirisu thing all because the Pokémon World Championship final match? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flame Dragon Posted August 18, 2014 Author Report Share Posted August 18, 2014 Yea. People are enjoying the joke. Pachi for god tier. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Agro Posted August 18, 2014 Report Share Posted August 18, 2014 Defensive mon, interesting choice too. Special Bulky letting it tank s*** and Follow Me protecting the other mons. Only one weakness in Ground, too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maeriberii Haan Posted August 18, 2014 Report Share Posted August 18, 2014 Defensive mon, interesting choice too. Special Bulky letting it tank s*** and Follow Me protecting the other mons. Only one weakness in Ground, too. Problem with this pachi is it's a physically bulky set that survived EQs like it's nothing. Eventhough the damage reduction exists, that's still damn impressive. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Agro Posted August 18, 2014 Report Share Posted August 18, 2014 Follow Me was the reason it was run, pretty clearly. It's the only mon with that move that has speed to match its bulk, although the bulk isn't even that impressive. Volt Absorb just there as an added bonus. Otherwise he probably could have run Follow Me on Togekiss and used that. However, it would also be vulnerable to super effective attacks like that Tyranitar and Garchomp's Rock moves. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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