RC Improvement Discussion Thread

[Aix]

Yes, RC is in shit. Okay, I'll cut the meaningless exposition, you all know the situation.

So, how do you believe we can go about dealing with this? Some of you say you'd have ideas on the change you'd make in RC, so pitch in your ideas now so that we can discuss it and all help in implementing it, because, as Night said, a helpful and cooperative community is far better than just a mod taking control. If things need to be stickied, I can do that for now.

 

Current Initiatives:

• Welcoming/Tutoring Project
• CCG Project (on hold, we'll do one thing at a time, or we'll be biting off more than we can chew)

[J-Max]

People need to stop being so harsh in their critism at times. Yes, we know you do not like the card but there is no need to berate a member for it. Most of the newbies turn tail and run when they feel like they are being ridiculed. Yes, we all want RC to be a flourishing part of the forum for budding card designers that want to make the next best card for the game but you need to give the Minnows a chance too.

 

I had a idea ages ago when I was a Mod to impliment a 'Bootcamp' Area. Being either a Topic or a section that would be for the new guys to express themselves without any fear of being ripping apart by the 'Elites' The Section idea would have been that if a Mod (or members) like the card design, it would be moved to Realistic. In this way, newer and more inexperience members would feel more confident about posting rather then make it all "DURR! Your card sucks! It goes to AoC you scrub!"

 

I want the more chilled atmosphere of 09/10 when it was a pleasure to see people actually getting on with each other without the whole Elitism. People want to wave their Dicks around? There is 1on1 for that now :P

 

In terms of actual reveiwing? As I mentioned in Toyo's thread I just want reasoning as to why a card is say "Too Powerful" or "Unplayable in today's Meta"

[Althemia]

More strict on the Advanced Clause - Let's face it, the Advanced Clause really hasn't been all that well kept in line for a while now. As a result, newer members believe that poorer quality posts are perfectly fine and will continue to do them without punishment. If we can uphold the Advanced Clause more, then the lesser quality posts will eventually just fizzle out which will leave the higher quality posts that actually help people to improve to remain.

Incorporate more reasons to be in RC other than just making cards - What I mean by this is maybe more forum based activities so that activity from some of the members don't just fizzle down over time. Giving more of an incentive for members to stay in Realistic Cards will improve activity overall, keeping it high and giving us a better chance of members staying and being productive members of the community.

Attempt to get more TCG activity in RC - Getting more TCG members to be active in Realistic Cards will only prove to be positive. They could comment more on playability of cards than players who maybe don't play or haven't played for a while, allowing them to get a far more in-depth analysis of their card in an actual card game environment than the average punter. This would increase the quality of cards that they comment on (hopefully), which helps people to improve and grow as a card maker while also allowing them to get better at the TCG.

I have more than just this, so I'll update this later.

[Aix]

I had a idea ages ago when I was a Mod to impliment a 'Bootcamp' Area. Being either a Topic or a section that would be for the new guys to express themselves without any fear of being ripping apart by the 'Elites' The Section idea would have been that if a Mod (or members) like the card design, it would be moved to Realistic. In this way, newer and more inexperience members would feel more confident about posting rather then make it all "DURR! Your card sucks! It goes to AoC you scrub!"

I had an idea that could be called a Boot Camp, that I had attempted before but executed very poorly. Quite simply, we draft up a list of newcomers, and we actually go to talk to them personally, through PM or otherwise. We need to come off as very nice, helpful and fun people in approaching them in order for this to work, but I think it's definitely worth a shot.

Incorporate more reasons to be in RC other than just making cards - What I mean by this is maybe more forum based activities so that activity from some of the members don't just fizzle down over time. Giving more of an incentive for members to stay in Realistic Cards will improve activity overall, keeping it high and giving us a better chance of members staying and being productive members of the community.

I think we should start a CCG Project in RC, this was suggested by Saber. The main reason I believe all our CCG attempts have failed because no one bothered submitting cards, but newcomers are full of energy and enthusiasm to make cards.

[J-Max]

I had an idea that could be called a Boot Camp, that I had attempted before but executed very poorly. Quite simply, we draft up a list of newcomers, and we actually go to talk to them. We need to come off as very nice, helpful and fun people in approaching them in order for this to work, but I think it's definitely worth a shot.

I think we should start a CCG Project in RC, this was suggested by Saber. The main reason I believe all our CCG attempts have failed because no one bothered submitting cards, but newcomers are full of energy and enthusiasm to make cards.

I was actually thinking more of a area with Zero Tolerance on Flaming or generally being a Dick. Call it a "Chill Out Zone" if you wish. But yeah Group Convos with certain members that cacth a persons eye is great as well. We need to make these people feel welcomed and give them Praise when they do well (No, not like a Dog lol) and give them friendly pointers when they do bad. They mention that say the field is Nuked? Give them advice on how to tone down or balance it.

[Althemia]

A concept I had while I was a moderator was a mentoring concept, where a bunch of the more respected card makers on the site get paired with newer members who want to improve so that they can become better at their trade. Of course, this doesn't just help with that. It also helps with the amount of hate that some new members receive, as often new members leave due to the amount of hate they get on what they make as it makes them feel unwanted. If they were to have a mentor however, they would have a friend to turn to while also having someone to stick up for them if everyone started ragging on them.

I think we should start a CCG Project in RC, this was suggested by Saber. The main reason I believe all our CCG attempts have failed because no one bothered submitting cards, but newcomers are full of energy and enthusiasm to make cards.

I certainly wouldn't mind this, especially if we can get our own dedicated pool on Duel Portal to work with so we can start from scratch. It'll make people feel as if they aren't doing it for nothing and can actually play with their contributions.

[Aix]

A concept I had while I was a moderator was a mentoring concept, where a bunch of the more respected card makers on the site get paired with newer members who want to improve so that they can become better at their trade. Of course, this doesn't just help with that. It also helps with the amount of hate that some new members receive, as often new members leave due to the amount of hate they get on what they make as it makes them feel unwanted. If they were to have a mentor however, they would have a friend to turn to while also having someone to stick up for them if everyone started ragging on them.

Basically a similar concept, except I know people can't always be on when their paired person is on, so I think it should work this way: People sign up to be a part of this, and then when we go to PM the newcomer, we include all of the signed up people. I want some promise of commitment from the people involved though, to respond as soon as possible so people don't feel ignored.

 

I certainly wouldn't mind this, especially if we can get our own dedicated pool on Duel Portal to work with so we can start from scratch. It'll make people feel as if they aren't doing it for nothing and can actually play with their contributions.

I'm going to move Duel Portal back to RC because I don't see why it was moved in the first place, and putting it in RC lets newcomers actually notice it.

[AGATHODAIMON BANGTAIL COW]

For the whole "making better-designed cards" thing, members need to be able to understand card design better. I mean, a lot of us here are probably not as knowledgeable on the subject as we think we are, and those are the members who interact with the new members more often. Plus, with the exception of Black, Koko, Masao, and probably %phil, I don't know if anyone can actually explain good card design.

 

How about someone I just mentioned creates something that supports whatever, and actually takes the time to explain why the effects and stats are designed well. Furthermore, that member can go over some similar effects/stats that could have been given to the card, but were not, because the inclusion of those effects/stats would be poor design, and explain why. You could even go over some basic "dos and don'ts" for a few archetypes to show that some things that are good design for one thing would be terrible if it supported something else.

[Kyng]

The Hall of Fame feature was nice, until it got ditched.

To be frank, having all these nifty things around to keep people invested is cool and all, but there's no point doing it if you're not invested in it for the long haul.

CCGs, Hall of Fame, both got abandoned not because people weren't submitting - there was excess, and those controlling the excess vanished, leading to a backlog in an abandoned damn that was once a feature.

[J-Max]

The Hall of Fame feature was nice, until it got ditched.

To be frank, having all these nifty things around to keep people invested is cool and all, but there's no point doing it if you're not invested in it for the long haul.

CCGs, Hall of Fame, both got abandoned not because people weren't submitting - there was excess, and those controlling the excess vanished, leading to a backlog in an abandoned damn that was once a feature.

I think the HoF was ditched due to it promoting Elitism at the time. However I would support it returning because then the newer and more inexperienced members could see what makes a good card without breaking it. They will then improve the way they think thus YCM getting more better Card Designers, Profit. Although some will turn their noses up and always say "Why is he/she better then me? I am the best card maker!"

[Aix]

Oh, and also, for Advanced Clause, you guys need to actually use the report button. I think I've only seen one report for Advanced Clause in these past few months. I'm pretty sure Zextra checks his reports, and while I don't tend to frequent this section, I check the reports all the time, so for something like Advanced Clause I can still jump in.

The Hall of Fame feature was nice, until it got ditched.

To be frank, having all these nifty things around to keep people invested is cool and all, but there's no point doing it if you're not invested in it for the long haul.

CCGs, Hall of Fame, both got abandoned not because people weren't submitting - there was excess, and those controlling the excess vanished, leading to a backlog in an abandoned damn that was once a feature.

We can only keep trying. It's like RPs. 99.99999% die off, but we'll keep pushing to complete them.

[J-Max]

Oh, and also, for Advanced Clause, you guys need to actually use the report button. I think I've only seen one report for Advanced Clause in these past few months. I'm pretty sure Zextra checks his reports, and while I don't tend to frequent this section, I check the reports all the time, so for something like Advanced Clause I can still jump in.

Wasn't the report function messing up a little while back? I swear that Zextra or the other mods requested that Reports be PM'd to them or posted in a specially made topic instead.

[Flash Flyer - Sakura]

In no particular order.

 

1. Enforce the Advanced Clause

 

As already stated by Toyo, there are a couple of members who've been posting less than satisfactory reviews (including calling an effect too long, simply posting an OCG fix and so forth). Said posts don't do us any good.

 

It's fine if you want to fix OCG, but if you decide to do, make sure you make an attempt to do it properly AND give some useful comments on the card itself (Is this thing broken? Do you need to tone the darn thing down?)

 

2. Change the forum's mentality

 

J-Max already noted this, but there are some members that tend to be really harsh when grading cards. Yes, we know you want quality over quantity (considering this is for cards that could be printed, should Konami even bother to come on here [which is very unlikely]), but it does no good if you call a member out for making bad cards. That's why some members leave; because we have some veterans who have nothing to do but be an a-word. Keep in mind that some members simply play casual and have little/no interest in the meta.

 

CC was a lot tamer in the older days. To be quite honest, the mentality of the members lately [flaming, usage of explicative language in replies, etc] was one of the reasons I left YCM for a while (though certainly not from this section entirely, and not aimed towards myself)

 

3. Mentorship

 

I personally like this idea. It allows newer members to get educated on how to make a card properly by a veteran, and keep them from getting yelled at by some of the members who frequent this area.

 

In a way, they have a friend who is willing to help them survive over there. They've been through the wringer a couple of times, so they know what it's like.

 

4. RC Training

 

Essentially, get members used to what's expected in the RC area. This can consist of a quick overview of the metagame (which is subject to change however, depending on what is popular at the time), then have said member make a card that can work but not come off as overly broken or cause combos with stuff that they shouldn't be.

 

You can probably make a club for that though.

 

 

This is it for now, but more will be added if anything else comes to mind. 

[Kyng]

We can only keep trying. It's like RPs. 99.99999% die off, but we'll keep pushing to complete them.

I know. Hence bring it up. I've seen it happen so many times before.

[Overfrost!]

I think we should start a CCG Project in RC, this was suggested by Saber. The main reason I believe all our CCG attempts have failed because no one bothered submitting cards, but newcomers are full of energy and enthusiasm to make cards.

This is the only thing that actually makes what we make useful. You won't see them released by Konami, so why the fck actually you made those cards? That is the thing for me, I mean, most people will want this, not just some reviews.

Also, I disagree how the Advanced Clause only counts the review's length. Honestly, I think it just discourage people from reviewing cards. How about letting the TC decide if it's helpful or not, if not the TC can report it. Though, to prevent abusing this, some rules must be set so that only actual unuseful reviews will be counted.

[Aix]

Also, I disagree how the Advanced Clause only counts the review's length. Honestly, I think it just discourage people from reviewing cards. How about letting the TC decide if it's helpful or not, if not the TC can report it. Though, to prevent abusing this, some rules must be set so that only actual unuseful reviews will be counted.

90% of cardmakers will not report it because they don't want people to stray away from commenting on their cards. Thus, it's up to the rules to set the standards. I mean, any moderator worth his salt will realize if a comment is actually helpful even if it's below Advanced Clause and use his judgment to make calls, but if it doesn't stand up to Advanced Clause and a mod deems it insufficient, you shall get a warning. Someone to make these calls is why we have moderators and want competent ones.

[Maeriberii Haan]

Just curious, for all of you that have mentioned about CCGs, do any of you have any actual experience in running one before?

Running one means get past at least 1 set.

 

Stricter policies, the mentorship program, has been mentioned a lot of time already, so I'll pass on that. On that note, did we ever have an actual final decision on the RC-Multiple Cards Advanced Clause? And then there's these users that only post OCG fixes without actually saying anything about the card. These needs some addressing too, since the original advanced clause if I remember correctly doesn't actually say anything that would disallow these. I'm just seeing this as a cheap way to bypass the rules.

 

And, probably not the best place to say this, but I believe the Card Contest section needs stricter moderation and ways to push the quality for it for the better. I've seen some, pardon my language, terribad contest hosts, and with the contest section's rules are pretty much just covered the basics of it, nothing much could be done. It's an extension of RC technically, so there's that too.

 

Would probably think of more points especially in regard to the RC-SC section (which is the main issue), but I am completely drained at this moment.

[Nathanael D. Striker]

*reads thread and sees mention of mentorship program*

 

Odd, but I could have sworn advocating that for a long time. Glad to see that it's finally getting somewhere after years of it just being talk. Though what I'd like to see is there to be more encouragement for members to actually test their card making skills in Card Contests and the 1v1 subforum. I mean, what good is building up your card making skills when you don't test them against other card makers. Sorry for the self-promotion here, but I made the Leaderboard to increase activity in the 1v1 subforum and provide an atmosphere for people to test their card making abilities against each other. This is essentially the question of why develop your skills if you aren't going to effectively use them. And on the flip side, I see people have advocated for more of a cooperative card making as well. I see no problem with this as it'll allow card makers to come together and hash out ideas into what they want to see in a card. It'll allow people to learn from each other, which would be a great benefit to us all.

[Maeriberii Haan]

Problem is, Card Contest (probably not 1v1 but I could be wrong) lacks...uh, something that I could call as ''Quality Control''. Many contests are poorly done in execution/idea/the likes, the results are often not transparent enough to see that the judges are actually judging the cards unbiased and using common sense, and the likes. If one really wants to push Contests as a way to refine a cardmaker's skill, then this issues must be addressed fast. Make a standard, or anything.

[Just Crouton]

>CCG Project

 

Does that mean ignoring the existing card pool and making a new one, or making new packs with the existing stuff in mind?

[Nathanael D. Striker]

Problem is, Card Contest (probably not 1v1 but I could be wrong) lacks...uh, something that I could call as ''Quality Control''. Many contests are poorly done in execution/idea/the likes, the results are often not transparent enough to see that the judges are actually judging the cards unbiased and using common sense, and the likes. If one really wants to push Contests as a way to refine a cardmaker's skill, then this issues must be addressed fast. Make a standard, or anything.

Yea, I see that the lack of a standard is a problem. Looks like we need to have a PM conference, though I have some ideas already.

[seattleite]

One thing that annoys me is when someone writes a really good card review, and the OP doesn't acknowledge it at all and just bumps the thread.

 

Suggest making it a rule that you can't bump a thread without at least replying to people who have reviewed your card. More incentive to give reviews, etc.

[Zauls]

One thing that annoys me is when someone writes a really good card review, and the OP doesn't acknowledge it at all and just bumps the thread.

 

Suggest making it a rule that you can't bump a thread without at least replying to people who have reviewed your card. More incentive to give reviews, etc.

 

This should probably be a rule across the entire forum where applicable. It just makes peoples' posts feel unappreciated and it demotes proper discussion.

 

Another thing I have thought of, more as a guide rather than a rule, is what I call a "Pack Filler" clause. We all know Konami fill the space in their packs with a load of jank and the only way they sell some of it is with the flavour of the card or the art or whatever. When we update the guide to making cards, just point it out to members that cards like that don't belong in RC and should probably be in AOC. Cards in RC should have some kind of competitive use. This would also rule out anything that is completely outclassed by an already existing card or that fills too similar a role to an already existing card. Cards like that are just a waste of time. A similar rule is probably already in place, but it needs to be made more clear and enforced better.

 

Also, I was thinking of something along the lines of the Hall of Fame, but I was thinking of calling it something like "RC Archive", which is basically a thread full of CCs that stand out from the rest in terms of design, usability etc. This, as already stated, would give newbies examples of what good card design is, which is always helpful, so I would support that.

 

CCGs also has my support, though I can't remember suggesting it o.0 don't know where that came from.

[Flash Flyer - Sakura]

One thing that annoys me is when someone writes a really good card review, and the OP doesn't acknowledge it at all and just bumps the thread.

 

Suggest making it a rule that you can't bump a thread without at least replying to people who have reviewed your card. More incentive to give reviews, etc.

I agree with this.

Also, enforcing the 24-hour bump rule helps also. I've seen a fair bit of members bumping after 7-8 hours (and often, multiple times) because no one replies right away. Keep in mind that YCM isn't as active as it was back in the old days. It is NOT the end of the world if no one looks at your card within a hour or so; even if it gets pushed to page 2 or something.

 

Wait a full day after your last post, and then bump it up. (We did have that thread where you could request a review for cards at one point; perhaps we should restore it or do something similar).

[宇佐見 蓮子@C94]

12 hours is the current bump timer, and I think it's fine that way. I rarely ever see a thread on the bottom of the first page, let alone the second page get commented on.
24 hours is too much imo.