New Custom Cards Moderator(s)

[Bahamut - Envoy of the End]

A dozen good cop/bad cop posts

 

Although ideally you'd like everyone to be nice and have a thriving, beloved, almost family community and such dross, but I agree that, although I wouldn't go as bluntly as to say "Must have good cop/bad cop system" that it's pointless having 2-3 mods who are all the same. Different members will respond to different approachs and the team as a team needs to be able to get people to respond. Whether that's by being nice to people, great. If it's by giving them a metaphorical clip over the year and saying "you stupid boy Pike" then that's what is needed.

 

Firmness, but not unpleasantness.

 

But this. Please don't get in someone just to act on Pika levels of super-bitch please. The mods should set the standard in all sense of the word.

 

Excuse me O.O .. are we still talking about aqua-hina ?? cause as I see, she had that taste of "a good card designer", and I think that everyone in RC will agree, and to improve it, check out the contests section.. but anyway, each one of us has his own points of view :D ...

 

Look, um, I don't you, but do yourself a favour. Don't poke the bear. Just let it go now. Really, it's better for you. It's better for everyone... :D

[Blake]

No, I realize why you pointed out game impact, and that IS very important. But design knowledge is first and foremost in that regard, and I just think anyone becoming a mod of CC should have a very strong grasp of design or they aren't going to be adequate as a leader.

[Tourmaline]

Terrible choice, given the amount of terribly designed cards Aqua Hina pumps out.

I think I deserve it if I look back into card making obviously. I'll rule with an iron book so that there's less ridges and pressure to make my rule painful and make it more firm and unyielding.

[Nathanael D. Striker]

No, I realize why you pointed out game impact, and that IS very important. But design knowledge is first and foremost in that regard, and I just think anyone becoming a mod of CC should have a very strong grasp of design or they aren't going to be adequate as a leader.

When did knowledge of the game determine one's leadership abilities? Just curious since one doesn't depend on the other and you make it sound like it does.

[Blake]

When did knowledge of the game determine one's leadership abilities? Just curious since one doesn't depend on the other and you make it sound like it does.

It's a matter of intelligence and perceived intelligence, and I said game knowledge is less so important to card design.

If someone who isn't good at designing cards is the leader, no one will take them seriously. They will be seen as a moron, plain and simple. Knowlege of the game is the same to a different degree.

The section cannot be improved by someone who doesn't understand the needed improvements.

[Just Crouton]

When did knowledge of the game determine one's leadership abilities? Just curious since one doesn't depend on the other and you make it sound like it does.

 

RC is a section about making cards with an existing card pool in mind.

 

It demands a mod who knows the game well so they can judge whether an offending card is badly designed/broken or not.

[evilfusion]

When did knowledge of the game determine one's leadership abilities? Just curious since one doesn't depend on the other and you make it sound like it does.

 

My view on that is similar to why a knowledgeable person should mod TCG/Your Deck. If you know how the game works, and at least have an idea of what can be considered good/bad, then it is easier to distinguish topics that have no discussion merits, and when someone has a terrible deck but is being irrationally stubborn about criticism, as opposed to someone who has a good deck, and is denying criticism on the merits that the criticism is WRONG.

 

In Custom Cards, someone being knowledgeable about the game would have a little more understanding of when a card's design is inherently broken, and will be able to distinguish good advice and bad advice. I don't think moderators are just rule enforcers who have a checklist of what constitutes an offense or not. Understanding the section you're moderating is key to making judgment calls.

 

If you have the knowledge AND the leadership abilities, then you're a shoo-in.

[Nathanael D. Striker]

You all have valid points. Though here is my question from that, could one that have the leadership abilities for the job yet with room for improvement in the card design section still be a good CC mod? Also, some people do better with card design by reviewing other cards than making their own and vice versa. That does have to be taken into account. As a side note, mods should be able to learn from other members. A mod shouldn't have to know everything and should be open to learning from others. Just my thought.

[Blake]

You all have valid points. Though here is my question from that, could one that have the leadership abilities for the job yet with room for improvement in the card design section still be a good CC mod? Also, some people do better with card design by reviewing other cards than making their own and vice versa. That does have to be taken into account. As a side note, mods should be able to learn from other members. A mod shouldn't have to know everything and should be open to learning from others. Just my thought.

No. Of course no one's going to be perfect, but they still need to be the paragon of the section or near enough to it. This isn't to say they shouldn't try to learn from others, but they still need to be well beyond adequate.

[Nathanael D. Striker]

No. Of course no one's going to be perfect, but they still need to be the paragon of the section or near enough to it. This isn't to say they shouldn't try to learn from others, but they still need to be well beyond adequate.

Alright, that answers one part. Though what about the difference between creation and review? I find it easier to look at another card and point out card design than having "perfect" card design in my own card. I guess it falls into inherent bias in some instances, but I'm wondering if being better in one than the other is a problem.

[Night]

If someone who isn't good at designing cards is the leader, no one will take them seriously. They will be seen as a moron, plain and simple. Knowlege of the game is the same to a different degree.

 

Yin's never posted a piece in Showcase nor does she ever critique, I don't think anyone views her as a moron because of it.

 

Contrarily, most view her as one of the best mods there is. 

 

Things I consider important for moderators is knowledge of the section they're watching. 

 

I think this is a much better way to phrase it, knowledge of the content within the section is important but not crucial. Knowledge of the section as a whole is. 

 

We're not looking for someone who's the best at the craft, we're looking for someone who's the best at delegating, negotiating, collaborating, producing content, and most important inciting others to do so as well. 

[BatMed]

I dunno if someone had already said this (since there is a lot of replies here O.O), but why not checking the cards and reviews that have been made so far by the nominated members, in order to choose the perfect mod ...

[Mugendramon]

As I mentioned in the Status Bar earlier, I am still learning a lot about the game itself but in terms of keeping the section under control, I can manage that. Past experiences or no, I did a pretty good job keeping CC under control and also revolutionized Pop Culture :P

 

Not bragging here of course and you are welcome to ignore me but the offer is always there if needed.

 

I think it's safe to say there is no way in hell this will happen.

[Tormented]

I think you people entirely are misinterpreting the point of a mod, they don't need to be 100% knowledgeable nor do they even need to care about YuGiOh, so long as they can keep the peace and sort out problems and sift through the rubbish then that's a good mod.

 

99% of the people on this site wouldn't be able to deal with the harassment you'd get from noobs telling you that you suck, a mod isn't about being cool or edgy it's about getting shit done and whilst you may see yourself being a good mod doesn't mean you actually would be.

 

edit 1; added more bm

[Aix]

I think you people entirely are misinterpreting the point of a mod, they don't need to be 100% knowledgeable nor do they even need to care about YuGiOh, so long as they can keep the peace and sort out problems and sift through the rubbish then that's a good mod.

 

99% of the people on this site wouldn't be able to deal with the harassment you'd get from noobs telling you that you suck,

You're misinterpreting what we're looking for. We looking for someone who can up the quality of the the stuff in RC. You need to really know what you're doing in order to help people improve as well as set an example. And of course, they need all the other traits that every mod needs.

[Tormented]

Improving RC is nigh on impossible, you can't get every new member to be able to produce high quality content, perhaps you plan on attempting to tutor them all into becoming full fledged pro card makers! That won't happen, most new members quit before they hit 100 posts. Want to improve people who CnC on cards? Okay that sounds like a plan there are two ways you could go about doing that, you either warn and ban appropriately OR you go around reminding each and every member how and what to post, which if this new mod is up to doing can be particularly time consuming.

The problem with RC right now is that everyone has their own concept of what should go on and no one is embracing the fact that everyone in RC is so bloody diverse and no, the new moderator doesn't need to particularly know A LOT about current meta, all they need to do is be able to get people together and allow the diverse people in RC to shine at their best and not give a fuck about shitty ego because quite frankly this site is full of elitist people and if we want to improve we have to accept that fact.

You want ideas to improve RC? Okay here's a few.

1: Give a monthly spotlight award to a decent cardmaker of the month, go through the in's and out's of the member and ask them a few questions about how to make interesting cards etc. This can be a thread of a highlighted post in one of their threads.

2: Allow someone to create a guide every so often, this works similarly to how the first one would except this one would not only help improve card makers but also allow the cardmaker creating the guide to develop themselves.

3: Create a mod-endorsed stickied thread to endorse creating CnC WITHOUT harsh limitations that stop people who have no idea what they're talking about to improve, because right now everyone and their mother complains when a 10 year old doesn't give them hardcore CnC around some pixels.

4: Host mod-endorsed monthly cardmaker contests LIKE showcase's one except, it would work much, much better because there are more than 4 people willing to contribute.


I can go on but I have to leave work now.

Edit: I am certain there are flaws in my concepts and I'm
Sure I'm missing the point but Im just looking to help improve and make it a more enjoyable place and putting more limitations will turn it into a ghost town.

[Blake]

Improving RC is nigh on impossible, you can't get every new member to be able to produce high quality content, perhaps you plan on attempting to tutor them all into becoming full fledged pro card makers!  That won't happen, most new members quit before they hit 100 posts. Want to improve people who CnC on cards? Okay that sounds like a plan there are two ways you could go about doing that, you either warn and ban appropriately OR you go around reminding each and every member how and what to post, which if this new mod is up to doing can be particularly time consuming.

And the Advanced Clause, the thing aimed to pushing improvement or gtfo, doesn't apply to them under 100 posts so that point is moot.

Warn and Ban worked when it was done, and the latter can be done when we actually have mods that are active.

Either way, you just showed how it's not impossible at all. We can't control newbies, but that's why a moderator with knowledge is needed for the section.
 

The problem with RC right now is that everyone has their own concept of what should go on and no one is embracing the fact that everyone in RC is so bloody diverse and no, the new moderator doesn't need to particularly know A LOT about current meta, all they need to do is be able to get people together and allow the diverse people in RC to shine at their best and not give a f*** about shitty ego because quite frankly this site is full of elitist people and if we want to improve we have to accept that fact.

Except only a few of the ideas to improve RC are correct. Again, you can't herd the newbies so much, but you can herd anyone that sticks around and divert the newbies if they're detrimental.

You can't design cards adequately if you don't understand the game state and what would harm it
 
If you can't understand design adequately, you can't determine what the trash and such that need to be removed are.
 
If you can't understand what's good/what's bad in the section, you can't correctly deal with the parts that needn't exist in RC,
 
Now, you can use the Yin in Showcase argument, but your very own argument undermines that; The entry level for RC is extremely low, so for a moderator to deal with the influx that RC deals with at times requires them to know how to handle it.

You want ideas to improve RC? Okay here's a few.
 
1: Give a monthly spotlight award to a decent cardmaker of the month, go through the in's and out's of the member and ask them a few questions about how to make interesting cards etc. This can be a thread of a highlighted post in one of their threads.

Doesn't work. Was attempted multiple times. RC quality doesn't hold up enough, and then interest wanes because the quality is so low.
 

2: Allow someone to create a guide every so often, this works similarly to how the first one would except this one would not only help improve card makers but also allow the cardmaker creating the guide to develop themselves.

Updating the guide wouldn't be bad, but it's hardly an improvement to the section. I've read the old guides, and they weren't even completely correct. On top of that, newer members and older members alike are unlikely to click the guides because they aren't in your face. 

3: Create a mod-endorsed stickied thread to endorse creating CnC WITHOUT harsh limitations that stop people who have no idea what they're talking about to improve, because right now everyone and their mother complains when a 10 year old doesn't give them hardcore CnC around some pixels.

Elaborate, because this is a cluster fuck of a point that doesn't make sense.
 

4: Host mod-endorsed monthly cardmaker contests LIKE showcase's one except, it would work much, much better because there are more than 4 people willing to contribute.

And if you do so before you teach them, it becomes a "choose the least terrible of them all" contest... much like many contests are currently, even the glorified Leaderboard.

And for all of your points, it reuires a mod who has a clue of what they're doing, rendering your claims a mod doesn't need knowledge to improve and police the section moot. A mod who knows how to handle the technically high traffic section, who knows what's quality and design are is much, much more beneficial to the section than some mook, so to speak.

[Tormented]

I admit me outright saying a mod who has no idea about yugioh was dumb, what I meant was someone who, perhaps aren't up to date all the time but are there and can at least reasonably state what is good and bad.

My 3rd point meant like a tutoring thread, a newer member gets help from someone who is arguably much more knowledgeable .

As I said before my points are likely convoluted and have no backing, rushed it in like 6 minutes.

I just feel forcing someone to have to undergo more rules and worry about someone making a top tier awesome card, rather help a newer members improve by tutoring and endorcing creative thinking rather than telling people to get good scrub.

[Blake]

I admit me outright saying a mod who has no idea about yugioh was dumb, what I meant was someone who, perhaps aren't up to date all the time but are there and can at least reasonably state what is good and bad.

My 3rd point meant like a tutoring thread, a newer member gets help from someone who is arguably much more knowledgeable .

As I said before my points are likely convoluted and have no backing, rushed it in like 6 minutes.

I just feel forcing someone to have to undergo more rules and worry about someone making a top tier awesome card, rather help a newer members improve by tutoring and endorcing creative thinking rather than telling people to get good scrub.

I just mean someone who has at least a grasp of what makes the top tier such (in general, not necessarily in a given format), which means they do have to have knowledge of design. It's not that you absolutely must have knowledge of the current gamestate, but it greatly helps you understand design and balance of cards created, because you know how it interacts with things that exist.

That's something that Aix started, sooo...

It's not about top tier awesome cards really. It's just about good design. Unless a card is horrendously bad design (like draw 3 for playing a deck at all), the hope is that people will be able to help it. Hell, I've posted a number of experimental ideas/cards in RC despite not knowing how well the design would work in practice. I HOPED it would work out, I tried my best to see what could go wrong, but I still wasn't sure.

And good design goes both ways, in that there are underpowered bad designs and broken bad designs. The idea is to thin both of these out by, at least in the case of the Advanced Clause, promoting more thought about a card, its applications, it's inherent design, etc. before blindly posting. And to cut down on "good card 11/10 would bang" posts.

I don't think anyone would ever expect YCM to pump out truly decent card design on the whole, even for a while yet.

[Nathanael D. Striker]

And if you do so before you teach them, it becomes a "choose the least terrible of them all" contest... much like many contests are currently, even the glorified Leaderboard.

Let me step right in since you opened the door by mentioning the Leaderboard. It isn't perfect, I get that. Though, you have to understand the link between RC and CC/1v1. As mentioned in the RC improvement thread, both areas need to be improved as they both rely on each other to be successful IMO. Here is my question for you: do you expect people to improve solely by posting cards in RC and getting reviews? Some people work better under pressure, and CC/1v1 gives those people an opportunity to improve. My point is this: a Custom Cards Mod needs to not only understand what is going on with RC; they need to understand what is going on in the other sections especially CC/1v1. Yes, RC is the most known section of Custom Cards yet one cannot forget the rest of it as well. Just some of my thoughts on the matter.

[Blake]

Let me step right in since you opened the door by mentioning the Leaderboard. It isn't perfect, I get that. Though, you have to understand the link between RC and CC/1v1. As mentioned in the RC improvement thread, both areas need to be improved as they both rely on each other to be successful IMO. Here is my question for you: do you expect people to improve solely by posting cards in RC and getting reviews? Some people work better under pressure, and CC/1v1 gives those people an opportunity to improve. My point is this: a Custom Cards Mod needs to not only understand what is going on with RC; they need to understand what is going on in the other sections especially CC/1v1. Yes, RC is the most known section of Custom Cards yet one cannot forget the rest of it as well. Just some of my thoughts on the matter.

Again, what exactly are you adding?

I said that in order to run contests properly a mod needs to understand design as well, in my first reply to Tormy.

In addition to this, my only point was that the supposed better part of CC's Card Makers, the ones who participate in the leaderboard, aren't even up to par for the most part.

Now, this isn't a Leaderboard card, but it is from someone who both actively participates in it last I checked AND someone put forward for modding this section.



This is unacceptable to RC, yet it was posted there after winning a contest. It's honestly unacceptable to contests as well, and I don't have a clue how this won.

It took me maybe 5 minutes at most to rip this card apart based on design and flavor, and it lacks any form of elegence to boot.

And this is someone who has won the Leaderboard, iirc.

My point remains; The standards are subpar everywhere if someone who designs this and thinks it is remotely okay can do well. The standards need to be turned up, because everywhere is pretty terrible and needs improvement.

[Nathanael D. Striker]

It falls down to the collective thought process, Black. Though, I feel the root of everything is the feedback that people receive. Poor quality feedback gives a sense of false accomplishment to those who make those cards or a sense of dread to those who actually make decent cards. TBH, the AC does try to promote quality and it has had success when enforced. The main issue is that it can't really change the thought process people have. Maybe, just maybe, the TCG can help teach people instead of look at Custom Cards with contempt. TCG needs to get more involved- something I've wanted to happen for a while now- for things to have a better chance of getting better. TCG is a part of this community too, and this community needs to come together.

[J-Max]

TCG won't get involved because they will walk in thinking that their Farts smell of roses and will ridicule all of us Card Designers. Also Black.. Did you honestly just call almost every single one of us Card Designers Sub Par? Have you seen the crap that Konami churns out on a near daily basis? Such classic designs as Counter Counter? At least we have the vision to imporve the game. Sure some of us (I will admit myself) can make designs based around 1 single Archetype that cannot support anything else ut what is wrong with that?

 

I have recently slowed down entering Contests as I felt I was on a losing streak and Aqua was too far away anyways :P

[AGATHODAIMON BANGTAIL COW]

Random terribleness and stuff like Counter Counter exists because Konami needs to release pack filler. They can't just release a ton of cards that are all good and balanced, and no CC member can do so either, well, in the same amount of time they can't. It's also more difficult for Konami for two extra reasons. Firstly, when they release cards, they can't outright change the effect of a card. It would be like ditching Midrash's effect destruction immunity right now. Sure, erratas exist, but those, as I've seen, either change the wording or modify currently existing effects in small ways (like like DSF). Furthermore, what they release will be seen by many, many players. Most of these who aren't out to simply review a card, but to play the game with that card. If it's broken or otherwise stupid, then they'll try to enjoy it while they can or complain that Konami can't get it right ever. If it's underpowered, they'll just end up not using the card (except for a handful of people who still like it no matter what). There are numerous people who do play Yugioh who are much better than the people who review in CC (you know, the people who win big things) who would be able to see what a card does much better than so&so the person from RC. While reviewers might look at a card and think "oh this looks ok 8/10," there could be someone who notices that the card sets up a really, really good position with Dark Grepher (for example), breaks Madolches so hard, or is simply useless. There's a lot of these people. These are the people who figure out that Tele-DAD is a thing, that you can run all of the Dragon Rulers together, and that Mass Driver is a retarded loop card. And they don't review cards in RC.

 

Is Konami perfect? Not at all. But claiming "I am suddenly better Konami card maker" is an obnoxious and incredibly incorrect in many cases.

[J-Max]

I wasn't saying us Card Makers are better then Konami as we obviously get our inspiration from them so I apologize if I mentioned Elitism. I meant more that we do have some really good ideas but you also have to remember that we have the 9999/9999 OP members who post tons of overpowered Crap (Literally Broken) but we do try to balance the negatives and the postivies. Again I apologize if I went out of line;