CrabHelmet Posted March 23, 2008 Report Share Posted March 23, 2008 If you allow yourself to get Raiza 3 times' date=' chances are you need to play better.[/quote']How exactly do you expect someone to have a counter after Raiza if they didn't have one BEFORE Raiza? If you don't have removal in your hand, and your opponent has 3 Raiza, you get screwed. Learn to manage resources better. Back when Raiza was at 3, I never had myself hit by the continous spin because I'm not that stupid to allow for certain cards to stay for to long, or waste my resources to early.Hmm... I guess "luck" has nothing to do with Yu-Gi-Oh!, huh? By that logic, ban every card. Because things could go badly if you have bad draws. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RedSceptile Posted March 23, 2008 Report Share Posted March 23, 2008 If you allow yourself to get Raiza 3 times' date=' chances are you need to play better.[/quote']How exactly do you expect someone to have a counter after Raiza if they didn't have one BEFORE Raiza? If you don't have removal in your hand, and your opponent has 3 Raiza, you get screwed. Learn to manage resources better. Back when Raiza was at 3, I never had myself hit by the continous spin because I'm not that stupid to allow for certain cards to stay for to long, or waste my resources to early.Hmm... I guess "luck" has nothing to do with Yu-Gi-Oh!, huh? Luck is the reason why Snipe Hunter is still Limited. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tonisanoob Posted March 23, 2008 Report Share Posted March 23, 2008 what do you mean pwwb get used all the time at my hobby leagues :S and no i dont need to play better if somone has 3 in theri hand what can i really do if i dont own a pulling the rug eh? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zeppeli Gyro Supreme Posted March 23, 2008 Report Share Posted March 23, 2008 If you allow yourself to get Raiza 3 times' date=' chances are you need to play better.[/quote']How exactly do you expect someone to have a counter after Raiza if they didn't have one BEFORE Raiza? If you don't have removal in your hand, and your opponent has 3 Raiza, you get screwed. Learn to manage resources better. Back when Raiza was at 3, I never had myself hit by the continous spin because I'm not that stupid to allow for certain cards to stay for to long, or waste my resources to early.Hmm... I guess "luck" has nothing to do with Yu-Gi-Oh!, huh? By that logic, ban every card. Because things could go badly if you have bad draws.I'm saying it puts you in a sort of Yata-Lock (though not quite as broken). Even if you do manage to destroy a Raiza, your opponent still has plently of ways to bring out a new Raiza and put you back in the same situation, but this time with one (or more) less cards. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CrabHelmet Posted March 23, 2008 Report Share Posted March 23, 2008 If you allow yourself to get Raiza 3 times' date=' chances are you need to play better.[/quote']How exactly do you expect someone to have a counter after Raiza if they didn't have one BEFORE Raiza? If you don't have removal in your hand, and your opponent has 3 Raiza, you get screwed. Learn to manage resources better. Back when Raiza was at 3, I never had myself hit by the continous spin because I'm not that stupid to allow for certain cards to stay for to long, or waste my resources to early.Hmm... I guess "luck" has nothing to do with Yu-Gi-Oh!, huh? Konami's stupidity is the reason why Snipe Hunter is still Limited. Fixed. If you allow yourself to get Raiza 3 times' date=' chances are you need to play better.[/quote']How exactly do you expect someone to have a counter after Raiza if they didn't have one BEFORE Raiza? If you don't have removal in your hand, and your opponent has 3 Raiza, you get screwed. Learn to manage resources better. Back when Raiza was at 3, I never had myself hit by the continous spin because I'm not that stupid to allow for certain cards to stay for to long, or waste my resources to early.Hmm... I guess "luck" has nothing to do with Yu-Gi-Oh!, huh? By that logic, ban every card. Because things could go badly if you have bad draws.I'm saying it puts you in a sort of Yata-Lock (though not quite as broken). Even if you do manage to destroy a Raiza, your opponent still has plently of ways to bring out a new Raiza and put you back in the same situation, but this time with one (or more) less cards. Sounds more like a Jackal lock to me. And the escape mechanism is to not summon a monster. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RedSceptile Posted March 23, 2008 Report Share Posted March 23, 2008 what do you mean pwwb get used all the time at my hobby leagues :S and no i dont need to play better if somone has 3 in theri hand what can i really do if i dont own a pulling the rug eh? I once won my locals using a deck of Uno cards. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zeppeli Gyro Supreme Posted March 23, 2008 Report Share Posted March 23, 2008 If you do that then you're just making it easier to be attacked next turn by a different monster. After that, when you do put down a monster, your opponent's just going to Raiza you again. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tonisanoob Posted March 23, 2008 Report Share Posted March 23, 2008 yhen they bounce a trap card = even more of a bad draw plz reilise that raizas bad at 3 im just guessing that your all really annoyed at gettting 3 then having a spare 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RedSceptile Posted March 23, 2008 Report Share Posted March 23, 2008 yhen they bounce a trap card = even more of a bad draw plz reilise that raizas bad at 3 im just guessing that your all really annoyed at gettting 3 then having a spare 2 Alright if you allow yourself to be constantly Raiza'd/spun whatever you're either: 1. A bad player. 2. Have a bad deck. 3. A combination of 1 & 2. I'm guessing you fall under category 1. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zeppeli Gyro Supreme Posted March 23, 2008 Report Share Posted March 23, 2008 yhen they bounce a trap card = even more of a bad draw plz reilise that raizas bad at 3 im just guessing that your all really annoyed at gettting 3 then having a spare 2 Alright if you allow yourself to be constantly Raiza'd/spun whatever you're either: 1. A bad player. 2. Have a bad deck. 3. A combination of 1 & 2. I'm guessing you fall under category 1.Prove what you say :] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RedSceptile Posted March 23, 2008 Report Share Posted March 23, 2008 yhen they bounce a trap card = even more of a bad draw plz reilise that raizas bad at 3 im just guessing that your all really annoyed at gettting 3 then having a spare 2 Alright if you allow yourself to be constantly Raiza'd/spun whatever you're either: 1. A bad player. 2. Have a bad deck. 3. A combination of 1 & 2. I'm guessing you fall under category 1.Prove what you say :] If you can't see one of the most obvious plays back when Raiza was at 3, a play that is stopped without even trying hard then you really deserve to lose to a Raiza-lock. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zeppeli Gyro Supreme Posted March 23, 2008 Report Share Posted March 23, 2008 yhen they bounce a trap card = even more of a bad draw plz reilise that raizas bad at 3 im just guessing that your all really annoyed at gettting 3 then having a spare 2 Alright if you allow yourself to be constantly Raiza'd/spun whatever you're either: 1. A bad player. 2. Have a bad deck. 3. A combination of 1 & 2. I'm guessing you fall under category 1.Prove what you say :] If you can't see one of the most obvious plays back when Raiza was at 3' date=' a play that is stopped without even trying hard then you really deserve to lose to a Raiza-lock.[/quote']I guess that when Monarchs ruled the list that all of the non-monarch decks were the worst decks in existence and those other top players were terrible :[ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CrabHelmet Posted March 23, 2008 Report Share Posted March 23, 2008 yhen they bounce a trap card = even more of a bad draw plz reilise that raizas bad at 3 im just guessing that your all really annoyed at gettting 3 then having a spare 2 Alright if you allow yourself to be constantly Raiza'd/spun whatever you're either: 1. A bad player. 2. Have a bad deck. 3. A combination of 1 & 2. I'm guessing you fall under category 1.Prove what you say :] If you can't see one of the most obvious plays back when Raiza was at 3' date=' a play that is stopped without even trying hard then you really deserve to lose to a Raiza-lock.[/quote']I guess that when Monarchs ruled the list that all of the non-monarch decks were the worst decks in existence and those other top players were terrible :[ No, actually, they weren't. That's why last format was better than this format; you actually had more than 5 deck options. Raiza-lock never won an SJC. That's probably because it's about as easy to pull off as a 3-card OTK, all of whose components are Limited and unsearchable. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RedSceptile Posted March 23, 2008 Report Share Posted March 23, 2008 yhen they bounce a trap card = even more of a bad draw plz reilise that raizas bad at 3 im just guessing that your all really annoyed at gettting 3 then having a spare 2 Alright if you allow yourself to be constantly Raiza'd/spun whatever you're either: 1. A bad player. 2. Have a bad deck. 3. A combination of 1 & 2. I'm guessing you fall under category 1.Prove what you say :] If you can't see one of the most obvious plays back when Raiza was at 3' date=' a play that is stopped without even trying hard then you really deserve to lose to a Raiza-lock.[/quote']I guess that when Monarchs ruled the list that all of the non-monarch decks were the worst decks in existence and those other top players were terrible :[ Noticed how DDT is great? Noticed how Zombie was great? Noticed how Gadgets is great? Noticed how Baboon Burn was great? Noticed how Chainburn was great? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zeppeli Gyro Supreme Posted March 23, 2008 Report Share Posted March 23, 2008 yhen they bounce a trap card = even more of a bad draw plz reilise that raizas bad at 3 im just guessing that your all really annoyed at gettting 3 then having a spare 2 Alright if you allow yourself to be constantly Raiza'd/spun whatever you're either: 1. A bad player. 2. Have a bad deck. 3. A combination of 1 & 2. I'm guessing you fall under category 1.Prove what you say :] If you can't see one of the most obvious plays back when Raiza was at 3' date=' a play that is stopped without even trying hard then you really deserve to lose to a Raiza-lock.[/quote']I guess that when Monarchs ruled the list that all of the non-monarch decks were the worst decks in existence and those other top players were terrible :[ No, actually, they weren't. That's why last format was better than this format; you actually had more than 5 deck options. Raiza-lock never won an SJC. That's probably because it's about as easy to pull off as a 3-card OTK, all of whose components are Limited and unsearchable.My point isn't just the Raiza lockdown part. I'm saying that the card made a large difference in power between decks. If you're drawing the same rubbish you had last turn, even if it was a fake-out card, you're pretty screwed. Not only will you not get the cards you need for your strategy as fast, but you're likely going to put the card in the same position, or not down at all. The only thing that keeps Phoenix Wing Blast so well is that you have to discard for it, and it has to be set a turn. But Raiza can be played from the hand, and gain an advantage right away with the field. Any card you use to summon him is going to make him a +0 card. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CrabHelmet Posted March 23, 2008 Report Share Posted March 23, 2008 yhen they bounce a trap card = even more of a bad draw plz reilise that raizas bad at 3 im just guessing that your all really annoyed at gettting 3 then having a spare 2 Alright if you allow yourself to be constantly Raiza'd/spun whatever you're either: 1. A bad player. 2. Have a bad deck. 3. A combination of 1 & 2. I'm guessing you fall under category 1.Prove what you say :] If you can't see one of the most obvious plays back when Raiza was at 3' date=' a play that is stopped without even trying hard then you really deserve to lose to a Raiza-lock.[/quote']I guess that when Monarchs ruled the list that all of the non-monarch decks were the worst decks in existence and those other top players were terrible :[ No, actually, they weren't. That's why last format was better than this format; you actually had more than 5 deck options. Raiza-lock never won an SJC. That's probably because it's about as easy to pull off as a 3-card OTK, all of whose components are Limited and unsearchable.My point isn't just the Raiza lockdown part. I'm saying that the card made a large difference in power between decks. If you're drawing the same rubbish you had last turn, even if it was a fake-out card, you're pretty screwed. The only thing that keeps Phoenix Wing Blast so well is that you have to discard for it, and it has to be set a turn. But Raiza can be played from the hand, and gain an advantage right away with the field. Any card you use to summon him is going to make him a +0 card. And yet Monarchs still weren't brokenly powerful, unlike cards like DAD that actually deserve banning. +0 is not banworthy. Consider the removal of Treeborn Frog from the game. Monarchs lose their most consistent tribute engine. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RedSceptile Posted March 23, 2008 Report Share Posted March 23, 2008 yhen they bounce a trap card = even more of a bad draw plz reilise that raizas bad at 3 im just guessing that your all really annoyed at gettting 3 then having a spare 2 Alright if you allow yourself to be constantly Raiza'd/spun whatever you're either: 1. A bad player. 2. Have a bad deck. 3. A combination of 1 & 2. I'm guessing you fall under category 1.Prove what you say :] If you can't see one of the most obvious plays back when Raiza was at 3' date=' a play that is stopped without even trying hard then you really deserve to lose to a Raiza-lock.[/quote']I guess that when Monarchs ruled the list that all of the non-monarch decks were the worst decks in existence and those other top players were terrible :[ No, actually, they weren't. That's why last format was better than this format; you actually had more than 5 deck options. Raiza-lock never won an SJC. That's probably because it's about as easy to pull off as a 3-card OTK, all of whose components are Limited and unsearchable.My point isn't just the Raiza lockdown part. I'm saying that the card made a large difference in power between decks. If you're drawing the same rubbish you had last turn, even if it was a fake-out card, you're pretty screwed. The only thing that keeps Phoenix Wing Blast so well is that you have to discard for it, and it has to be set a turn. But Raiza can be played from the hand, and gain an advantage right away with the field. Any card you use to summon him is going to make him a +0 card. And yet Monarchs still weren't brokenly powerful, unlike cards like DAD that actually deserve banning. +0 is not banworthy. Consider the removal of Treeborn Frog from the game. Monarchs lose their most consistent tribute engine. Snipe Hunter is a +0. Sometimes it's a -1. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CrabHelmet Posted March 23, 2008 Report Share Posted March 23, 2008 yhen they bounce a trap card = even more of a bad draw plz reilise that raizas bad at 3 im just guessing that your all really annoyed at gettting 3 then having a spare 2 Alright if you allow yourself to be constantly Raiza'd/spun whatever you're either: 1. A bad player. 2. Have a bad deck. 3. A combination of 1 & 2. I'm guessing you fall under category 1.Prove what you say :] If you can't see one of the most obvious plays back when Raiza was at 3' date=' a play that is stopped without even trying hard then you really deserve to lose to a Raiza-lock.[/quote']I guess that when Monarchs ruled the list that all of the non-monarch decks were the worst decks in existence and those other top players were terrible :[ No, actually, they weren't. That's why last format was better than this format; you actually had more than 5 deck options. Raiza-lock never won an SJC. That's probably because it's about as easy to pull off as a 3-card OTK, all of whose components are Limited and unsearchable.My point isn't just the Raiza lockdown part. I'm saying that the card made a large difference in power between decks. If you're drawing the same rubbish you had last turn, even if it was a fake-out card, you're pretty screwed. The only thing that keeps Phoenix Wing Blast so well is that you have to discard for it, and it has to be set a turn. But Raiza can be played from the hand, and gain an advantage right away with the field. Any card you use to summon him is going to make him a +0 card. And yet Monarchs still weren't brokenly powerful, unlike cards like DAD that actually deserve banning. +0 is not banworthy. Consider the removal of Treeborn Frog from the game. Monarchs lose their most consistent tribute engine. Snipe Hunter is a +0. Sometimes it's a -1. Advantage stops mattering when you instantly and effortlessly win the game. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RedSceptile Posted March 23, 2008 Report Share Posted March 23, 2008 +0 is not banworthy.k. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zeppeli Gyro Supreme Posted March 23, 2008 Report Share Posted March 23, 2008 yhen they bounce a trap card = even more of a bad draw plz reilise that raizas bad at 3 im just guessing that your all really annoyed at gettting 3 then having a spare 2 Alright if you allow yourself to be constantly Raiza'd/spun whatever you're either: 1. A bad player. 2. Have a bad deck. 3. A combination of 1 & 2. I'm guessing you fall under category 1.Prove what you say :] If you can't see one of the most obvious plays back when Raiza was at 3' date=' a play that is stopped without even trying hard then you really deserve to lose to a Raiza-lock.[/quote']I guess that when Monarchs ruled the list that all of the non-monarch decks were the worst decks in existence and those other top players were terrible :[ No, actually, they weren't. That's why last format was better than this format; you actually had more than 5 deck options. Raiza-lock never won an SJC. That's probably because it's about as easy to pull off as a 3-card OTK, all of whose components are Limited and unsearchable.My point isn't just the Raiza lockdown part. I'm saying that the card made a large difference in power between decks. If you're drawing the same rubbish you had last turn, even if it was a fake-out card, you're pretty screwed. The only thing that keeps Phoenix Wing Blast so well is that you have to discard for it, and it has to be set a turn. But Raiza can be played from the hand, and gain an advantage right away with the field. Any card you use to summon him is going to make him a +0 card. And yet Monarchs still weren't brokenly powerful, unlike cards like DAD that actually deserve banning. +0 is not banworthy. Consider the removal of Treeborn Frog from the game. Monarchs lose their most consistent tribute engine.DAD's ban is a given. And then what's going to come out with power if we unlimit Raiza? More monarchs. But this time we'll have a lot more to worry about. We could lose our hand, remove our monster from play, or have to draw the same card over again. If you have a defensive monster in your hand, chances are that's because you have no aggressive moves to make that turn. And then what happens if you get that card returned to your hand? You have to go back into defense. It punishes you for using a deck that isn't all-out, and therefore makes the game yet another race like for DAD. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CrabHelmet Posted March 23, 2008 Report Share Posted March 23, 2008 +0 is not banworthy.k. You know perfectly well what I mean: that a mere +0 isn't banworthy on its own. It is made banworthy by the specific effects of certain cards, but regular spin isn't that; that's why Jackal hasn't been banned. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zeppeli Gyro Supreme Posted March 23, 2008 Report Share Posted March 23, 2008 +0 is not banworthy.k. You know perfectly well what I mean: that a mere +0 isn't banworthy on its own. It is made banworthy by the specific effects of certain cards' date=' but regular spin isn't that; that's why Jackal hasn't been banned.[/quote']Jackal hasn't been banned because he has to attack to use his effect, and he's a 2 tribute monster.Also, it only works on monsters. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RedSceptile Posted March 23, 2008 Report Share Posted March 23, 2008 yhen they bounce a trap card = even more of a bad draw plz reilise that raizas bad at 3 im just guessing that your all really annoyed at gettting 3 then having a spare 2 Alright if you allow yourself to be constantly Raiza'd/spun whatever you're either: 1. A bad player. 2. Have a bad deck. 3. A combination of 1 & 2. I'm guessing you fall under category 1.Prove what you say :] If you can't see one of the most obvious plays back when Raiza was at 3' date=' a play that is stopped without even trying hard then you really deserve to lose to a Raiza-lock.[/quote']I guess that when Monarchs ruled the list that all of the non-monarch decks were the worst decks in existence and those other top players were terrible :[ No, actually, they weren't. That's why last format was better than this format; you actually had more than 5 deck options. Raiza-lock never won an SJC. That's probably because it's about as easy to pull off as a 3-card OTK, all of whose components are Limited and unsearchable.My point isn't just the Raiza lockdown part. I'm saying that the card made a large difference in power between decks. If you're drawing the same rubbish you had last turn, even if it was a fake-out card, you're pretty screwed. The only thing that keeps Phoenix Wing Blast so well is that you have to discard for it, and it has to be set a turn. But Raiza can be played from the hand, and gain an advantage right away with the field. Any card you use to summon him is going to make him a +0 card. And yet Monarchs still weren't brokenly powerful, unlike cards like DAD that actually deserve banning. +0 is not banworthy. Consider the removal of Treeborn Frog from the game. Monarchs lose their most consistent tribute engine.DAD's ban is a given. And then what's going to come out with power if we unlimit Raiza? More monarchs. But this time we'll have a lot more to worry about. We could lose our hand, remove our monster from play, or have to draw the same card over again. If you have a defensive monster in your hand, chances are that's because you have no aggressive moves to make that turn. And then what happens if you get that card returned to your hand? You have to go back into defense. It punishes you for using a deck that isn't all-out, and therefore makes the game yet another race like for DAD. So Monarchs decks are going to be running 9 Monarchs now with 0 Frog. Man that's incredibly consistent! Oh wait. Monarch decks aren't swarm, they're control. Man you sure do have a lot of monarch hatred. Must have lost to them a lot. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RedSceptile Posted March 23, 2008 Report Share Posted March 23, 2008 +0 is not banworthy.k. You know perfectly well what I mean: that a mere +0 isn't banworthy on its own. It is made banworthy by the specific effects of certain cards' date=' but regular spin isn't that; that's why Jackal hasn't been banned.[/quote'] Of course I know what you mean. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zeppeli Gyro Supreme Posted March 23, 2008 Report Share Posted March 23, 2008 I've only dueled Monarch decks a total of 3 times. And I beast 2 of them because they were crappy versions :/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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