Flame Dragon Posted October 21, 2014 Report Share Posted October 21, 2014 Fell stinger's not worth it compared to Knock off/Protect. Being able to hit ghosts with SE damage, and/or ensuring a safe Mega turn is far more important than a shaky boosting move. Not to mention, you'll U-turning out a lot. Also, you should check the calc to see whether you can outspeed Mega Manectric with that speed. Also some vital base 80-90 scarfers. Still, really prefer Jolly for the nature since outspeeding things >>>>> damage for something like Beedrill.Knock Off is likely better.Neutral Base 145 outspeeds up to max 127. Mega Manectric is locked away in OU so he isn't something you'd really need to worry about. I can see the arguement for the speed being better on the bee since you mostly going to spam the hell out of U-Turn and your ability will pick up the slack in terms of hitting power. Yeah, as I've said, you shouldn't ever consider switching in on Aegis, and if you know Aegis is on the opposing team, you should prepare for hitting Knock Off, really. Also, BU set laughs at Aegis's Shadow Sneak if you got in first. Not to mention Shadow Sneak on Gallade is a base 40 non-stab move, and don't forget that 165 ATK is not -that- big to make it threatening, especially without item.BU might, but it takes setup to start dealing respectable damage. Aegis walks all over Megallade so if your going to try to do anything to it, Knock Off is the wa to go. I'll agree that the prioity move does help, but I'm not sold on it being better than Knock Off which is just a stupid move. It's a good thing people take me seriously when talking about competitive Pokemon. Otherwise they'd realize I don't know what I'm talking about.I assumed you did. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maeriberii Haan Posted October 21, 2014 Report Share Posted October 21, 2014 Oh, so it's something geared for UU/RU. Then I guess neutral is workable, though not sure about UU's common scarfers to be sure about that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Agro Posted October 21, 2014 Report Share Posted October 21, 2014 Can we just go through and list all the different sets you could go with for Mega Gallade? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flame Dragon Posted October 21, 2014 Report Share Posted October 21, 2014 Oh, so it's something geared for UU/RU. Then I guess neutral is workable, though not sure about UU's common scarfers to be sure about that.Bee doesn't stand much of a chance in OU. To much flying and other random prioity for it to really make use of its amazing speed. I mean, Jolly would work in all tiers so its not like I lose much by making the switch, but he seems more at home in UU. That said, you at best tie neutral base 80 at +1 so the argument for Jolly is a pretty good one. Can we just go through and list all the different sets you could go with for Mega Gallade?He has a fair bit of options, though the best two are likely a Bulk Up or Sword Dance set. Main difference being that Shadow Sneak is a LOT better with SD. You'd also run Close Combat with SD since your going to be switching out more and the extra power lets you do a TON more damage.tl;drSword DanceClose CombatThunder PunchShadow SneakBulk UpDrain PunchThunder PunchKnock Off Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LordCowCowCowCowCowCowCowCow Posted October 21, 2014 Report Share Posted October 21, 2014 About Mega-Beedril. Even not including anything else, one thing will probably keep it out of OU. Talonflame. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maeriberii Haan Posted October 21, 2014 Report Share Posted October 21, 2014 @Flame Dragon, Well, he fills a certain niche in OU to make itself usable there (which is ridiculously speedy powerful U-turns), but it needs a lot of support and then there's the opportunity cost of playing it over other megas. Also, theoretical M-Altaria tankish set Altaria @ Altarite Ability: Natural Cure -> Pixilate EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk (unsure yet, lol) Adamant Nature - Roost - Heal Bell - Body Slam - Earthquake/Draco Meteor Fairy/Ground is amazing coverage. Body Slam is ridiculously spammable thanks to Pixilate, but Draco meteor is an option to f*** over Charizards. Will do a proper IV/Nature later. About Mega-Beedril. Even not including anything else, one thing will probably keep it out of OU. Talonflame. gee, I wonder why OU still have pinsir and other bug/fighting/grass types then Talonflame alone is not a reason of why M-Beedrill is unviable (which once again, it IS viable, and can definitely pull it weight if you play it safely). Adaptability U-turn from that ATK and Spe is really relevant of a factor and while many popular mons checks/counters it, M-Bee have an easy time with the rest, and heck, you can actually EV it so it survives some neutral priorities. Not for every team, and you'll need to work some extra effort to play and teambuild with it, but it is enough of a niche to make it see play in OU and be a threat. Volt turn teams will love him so much. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LordCowCowCowCowCowCowCowCow Posted October 21, 2014 Report Share Posted October 21, 2014 I still think the best Mega-Altaria set is Return, Earthquake, Roost, and Dragon Dance. Probably...Jolly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flash Flyer - Sakura Posted October 21, 2014 Report Share Posted October 21, 2014 About Mega-Beedril. Even not including anything else, one thing will probably keep it out of OU. Talonflame. Yeah, Gale Wing Brave Bird out of Talonflame will outright kill it. Then again, anything that has priority or can outrun it on its Mega Evo turn will spell death for the bee. tl;dr, whatever lives a hit from Beedrill and can hit it back will kill it, considering its defenses are bad. So, I have this Adamant Latios that I built into a Dragon Dancer some time ago, and now I think it may be good to use with Latiosite. 252 HP, 252 Atk, 6 Speed. Dragon Claw Recover Earthquake Dragon Dance Personally, I would go for a Jolly nature; considering that some Pokes are getting stat buffs this gen; you also risk getting outrun by other base 100-110 spd Pokes (think I did the calculation right) by not boosting. Though considering you're boosting the HP, I'm assuming you're trying to do a bulky attacker set instead of the standard sweeper one Latios generally has (with a Timid/Hasty nature); which inverts the spread in HP/Speed. Also note that Fairies will still hard wall you, considering your only coverage move is Earthquake (which isn't STAB). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maeriberii Haan Posted October 21, 2014 Report Share Posted October 21, 2014 I still think the best Mega-Altaria set is Return, Earthquake, Roost, and Dragon Dance. Probably...Jolly. Mega Altaria is a really versatile mon, really. Offensive cleric, setup sweeper, defensive pivot, tank, offensive sets, there's a lot of viable and good sets. Though DD set is usually the best since it's really easy to fit in. tl;dr, whatever lives a hit from Beedrill and can hit it back will kill it, considering its defenses are bad. U-turn. I'm not saying that Beedrill is a top tier threat or something (which it isn't since too many things walls it), I think many people underestimated him too much. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LordCowCowCowCowCowCowCowCow Posted October 21, 2014 Report Share Posted October 21, 2014 Yeah, Gale Wing Brave Bird out of Talonflame will outright kill it. Then again, anything that has priority or can outrun it on its Mega Evo turn will spell death for the bee. tl;dr, whatever lives a hit from Beedrill and can hit it back will kill it, considering its defenses are bad. Beedrill 4X resists Fighting so it MIGHT live a Mach Punch from some things. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flash Flyer - Sakura Posted October 21, 2014 Report Share Posted October 21, 2014 Yeah, but also remember the other priority moves that it's neutral to (i.e. Bullet Punch [I think it's still common on Scizor/Meta/Lucario or w/e], Aqua Jet, Shadow Sneak [if that even dents stuff with common users]). Still waiting if they make Mega Butterfree; doesn't really make sense if they release Beedrill but no Butterfree Mega. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LordCowCowCowCowCowCowCowCow Posted October 21, 2014 Report Share Posted October 21, 2014 They might wait till the next game for Mega Butterfree. Since they did Mega Gardevoir in X and Y and Gallade in ORAS. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maeriberii Haan Posted October 21, 2014 Report Share Posted October 21, 2014 and heck, you can actually EV it so it survives some neutral priorities. If it's not CB/Belly Azu's Aqua Jet, Scizor's Bullet Punch, half of the Sucker Punches of the meta, or flying type priorities, it can actually survive them with enough retooling. And really, Beedrill should never stay in unless it's something that it can kill, so aside from the switching in turn, he can just U-turn away in the presence of any potential threat. Also in retrospect, Knock Off>Drill run in beedrill. Drill's not strong enough to kill anything outside of Heatran, and Knock off screws with a lot of Scarf users that tries to revenge/check it like Scarf landorus-T. And you need protect most of the time to safely turn Mega. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flame Dragon Posted October 21, 2014 Report Share Posted October 21, 2014 About Mega-Beedril. Even not including anything else, one thing will probably keep it out of OU. Talonflame. Talonflame just does a number to a lot of pokemon. Prioity Brave Bird is not something most pokemon will enjoy. @Flame Dragon, Well, he fills a certain niche in OU to make itself usable there (which is ridiculously speedy powerful U-turns), but it needs a lot of support and then there's the opportunity cost of playing it over other megas. Also, theoretical M-Altaria tankish set Altaria @ AltariteAbility: Natural Cure -> PixilateEVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk (unsure yet, lol)Adamant Nature- Roost- Heal Bell- Body Slam- Earthquake/Draco Meteor Fairy/Ground is amazing coverage. Body Slam is ridiculously spammable thanks to Pixilate, but Draco meteor is an option to fuck over Charizards. Will do a proper IV/Nature later.Agree. Breedrill is cool, but too much is holding him back from OU.Altaria also came up when I was talking to my friend. He said, and I could see his point, that physcial versions of the bulky set are likely worse than special since if you get burnt your set up bait. Sure you can heal yourself with Bell, but wasting a turn still does exactly what the opponent wants. Reason I didn't post any buold for Altaria is because its stats and typing lend itself to being able to do TONS of builds. I know we was interested in a DD build for example.Also in retrospect, Knock Off>Drill run in beedrill. Drill's not strong enough to kill anything outside of Heatran, and Knock off screws with a lot of Scarf users that tries to revenge/check it like Scarf landorus-T. And you need protect most of the time to safely turn Mega.I normally don't like running protect on Mega since I rarely feel it helps a ton, but Beedrill is one of the few that could really use it since it REALLY sucks without it. Another arguement against Drill Run is that Poison Jab hits just as hard as x2 assuming they don't resist it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maeriberii Haan Posted October 21, 2014 Report Share Posted October 21, 2014 One thing that sets the two apart is Body Slam's paralysis chance which is relevant enough to make even some common WoW users to be wary of it, not to mention other mons. It...really just boils down to preference tbh of either threatening paralysis or stronger and safer spammable move., and yes, Altaria has a bajilion of builds. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flash Flyer - Sakura Posted October 21, 2014 Report Share Posted October 21, 2014 I don't usually run Protect on my Megas either. Granted, I have it for that Bullet Punch Lucario I have [mainly for protection reasons in case I have to fight faster threats, such as Manectric with Overheat (because NPCs in Institute apparently like using it, coupled with White Herb)]; but most of the time, I probably don't need it. But yeah, Beedrill does need to run it if it wants to get its high speed boost and start sweeping; otherwise forget it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flame Dragon Posted October 21, 2014 Report Share Posted October 21, 2014 Also in retrospect, Knock Off>Drill run in beedrill. Drill's not strong enough to kill anything outside of Heatran, and Knock off screws with a lot of Scarf users that tries to revenge/check it like Scarf landorus-T. And you need protect most of the time to safely turn Mega.I normally don't like running protect on Mega since I rarely feel it helps a ton, but Beedrill is one of the few that could really use it since it REALLY sucks without it. Another arguement against Drill Run is that Poison Jab hits just as hard as x2 assuming they don't resist it. One thing that sets the two apart is Body Slam's paralysis chance. It...really just boils down to preference tbh of threatening paralysis or stronger and safer spammable move., and yes, Altaria has a bajilion of builds.Para chance is a major plus and I know Body Slam didn't come up when we were talking about it.And yea, of all the new megas I think she has the biggest ranger of things to be done. Honestly, I want to start figuring out sets for the new pokemon (which is why I had those two already planned out) but between me not being very good at this and their still being a ton of options I'm not 100% on where to go. Megadrill and Adamant vs. Jolly is one of them. I mean, I could wait since I have other pokemon I want to get ready since I'll have access to tutors come OR/AS, but I like planning.Speaking of, next pokemon on my list of things to breedCalm EmpoleonEVs: 252 HP, 252 SPD, 4 SPAStealth Rocks, Scald, Yawn, ToxicLeftoversNot having access to Defog does suck, but I think Empoleon is still fine without it. Honestly, I'm not 100% on the last two moves. Protect over Yawn does some cool still with Leftovers and Toxic. Roar is also an option though I think toxic and yawn can both do enough to deter using Emoleon as set up bait.Edit:Ok, so I did some speed math for Mega Beedrill. With a +SPE nature you speed tie pokemon with neutral base 93 if they are +1. So a +Nature stops being useful once you hit Scarfed pokemon over base 92. On the low end a neutral nature of your own will outspeed +1 base 80. This means the value you get from using a Jolly nature over an Adamant nature is that you can now outspeed neutral base 81-92 speed pokemon at +1. The relevent pokemon in this range are Gyarados, Kingdra, Rotom forms, Excadrill, Porygon-Z, and Venomoth. I feel like of these on Gyarados and Excarill are super relvent, though Gyara doesn't always run the full 252 SPE and Excadrill is already a major problem for you anyway. Outside of that, Kingdra rarely runs DD, Z doesn't run Scarf THAT often, and Venomoth is in limbo being too good for UU but not good enough for OU. Honestly, only the Rotom forms would give me any pause, but thats kind of w/e. Also to note, +SPE won't outspeed any of these pokemon if they are also using +SPE. As for your neutral vs. a +1 +SPE, you need to go down to base 68 to outspeed them, though I don't think many of these pokemon would be running +SPE nature.So yea, tl;dr, I think Adamant is the better nature. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Agro Posted October 24, 2014 Report Share Posted October 24, 2014 So I got my demo. Music in this is what hit me the hardest. IT'S SO GOOD. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flash Flyer - Sakura Posted October 24, 2014 Report Share Posted October 24, 2014 Indeed, the music is great. (Hopefully that holds for the other tracks as well) Just a pity that the demo version was pretty short [the first 10 tries took less than 30-45 minutes]. Not really keen on being named Orlando in the version, but whatever. (At this point, it's essentially repeating the same stuff over and over) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Astro Dude Posted October 24, 2014 Report Share Posted October 24, 2014 Guys, about the vouchers, are they only limited to one code per game? If so, we are screwed for Diancie. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
evilfusion Posted October 25, 2014 Report Share Posted October 25, 2014 Guys, about the vouchers, are they only limited to one code per game? If so, we are screwed for Diancie. Pretty sure they are. I think the shiny Gengar was, too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Agro Posted October 25, 2014 Report Share Posted October 25, 2014 Just a pity that the demo version was pretty short [the first 10 tries took less than 30-45 minutes]. Yeah, like, pity the demo wasn't a full game, right? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
~British Soul~ Posted October 25, 2014 Report Share Posted October 25, 2014 Guys, about the vouchers, are they only limited to one code per game? If so, we are screwed for Diancie. Not really as the codes are different. Indeed, the music is great. (Hopefully that holds for the other tracks as well) I agree, the music was pretty good. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flash Flyer - Sakura Posted October 25, 2014 Report Share Posted October 25, 2014 Starting this Monday, we can get Diancie; which is nice. Speaking of which, I should probably stop by that other Gamestop at the mall this weekend for another Gengar [code should be different; note to self: make sure you scratch carefully]. You should be able to get more than one; considering that all of the codes are 16-digits; the chances of getting the same code twice (and it not working) are quite slim. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
~British Soul~ Posted October 25, 2014 Report Share Posted October 25, 2014 Starting this Monday, we can get Diancie; which is nice. Good for you, I have to wait till November 6th to get Diancie over here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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