Constructive Criticism

[Premier Alexander Romanov]

Well, I tried making a card again, and most of the comments I got were on how had the card was, but never offering anything on what I SHOULD do, but focusing on what I SHOULDN'T do.
Is it just me, or is YCM bad at giving actual feedback other than hating a card for its negatives, and not even mentioning what works?

[evilfusion]

Sometimes the secret to making something good is to avoid the pitfalls. Or, more specifically, knowing the pitfalls makes them easier to avoid. It's actually very difficult to tell someone what they SHOULD do instead, on the basis that it's much easier to point out the flaws than to redesign it entirely. Not everyone has that level of creative thinking.

 

I'm reminded of when someone dislikes a movie or video and says it's bad, and people respond that the complainer should "try and make something better" themselves, implying that unless someone can make a superior work, their dislikes or criticism are invalid. People can look at something and find flaws in it, and the mere existence of flaws doesn't make the work "bad", unless the flaws are glaring and detract from the work as a whole. 

 

On a similar note, while people saying something is "bad" can be viewed as unhelpful, it's no worse than people saying something is awesome without elaborating.

[Premier Alexander Romanov]

Sometimes the secret to making something good is to avoid the pitfalls. Or, more specifically, knowing the pitfalls makes them easier to avoid. It's actually very difficult to tell someone what they SHOULD do instead, on the basis that it's much easier to point out the flaws than to redesign it entirely. Not everyone has that level of creative thinking.
 
I'm reminded of when someone dislikes a movie or video and says it's bad, and people respond that the complainer should "try and make something better" themselves, implying that unless someone can make a superior work, their dislikes or criticism are invalid. People can look at something and find flaws in it, and the mere existence of flaws doesn't make the work "bad", unless the flaws are glaring and detract from the work as a whole. 
 
On a similar note, while people saying something is "bad" can be viewed as unhelpful, it's no worse than people saying something is awesome without elaborating.

Very true, on all three points.
Of course, when it comes to created cards here on YCM, being able to "try and make something better" is a legitimate point. We're a site ABOUT making fake cards, and make it EASY to make something better than someone else's fake cards.

[Delibirb]

Sometimes the secret to making something good is to avoid the pitfalls. Or, more specifically, knowing the pitfalls makes them easier to avoid. It's actually very difficult to tell someone what they SHOULD do instead, on the basis that it's much easier to point out the flaws than to redesign it entirely. Not everyone has that level of creative thinking.

 

I'm reminded of when someone dislikes a movie or video and says it's bad, and people respond that the complainer should "try and make something better" themselves, implying that unless someone can make a superior work, their dislikes or criticism are invalid. People can look at something and find flaws in it, and the mere existence of flaws doesn't make the work "bad", unless the flaws are glaring and detract from the work as a whole. 

 

On a similar note, while people saying something is "bad" can be viewed as unhelpful, it's no worse than people saying something is awesome without elaborating.

Which is much less common and also deserves a topic.

[Premier Alexander Romanov]

Which is much less common and also deserves a topic.

Feel free to make that one.
Because, I do admit, I am guilty of that.

[evilfusion]

Well, in the rare times I comment on custom cards (the topic title drew my attention in some way...usually the word "Galaxy-Eyes" is involved), I don't want to redesign the card myself. I'm not invested in the custom card enough to do that, but I can point out some of the problems with ease. I'll usually try to justify what I'm saying, but outright telling the person what they need to do is stepping on their creative toes, in the sense I'd be implying that unless they change it to what I want, I won't be satisfied, and this might change what THEY wanted to do with the card.

 

As a writer, I'm open to criticism and thoughts on a direction that was taken, but if someone's criticism is to rewrite everything involved with it, often without knowing important details or characterization, or future plans, it won't be considered very helpful, even if their suggestion is BETTER.

[Premier Alexander Romanov]

Well, in the rare times I comment on custom cards (the topic title drew my attention in some way...usually the word "Galaxy-Eyes" is involved), I don't want to redesign the card myself. I'm not invested in the custom card enough to do that, but I can point out some of the problems with ease. I'll usually try to justify what I'm saying, but outright telling the person what they need to do is stepping on their creative toes, in the sense I'd be implying that unless they change it to what I want, I won't be satisfied, and this might change what THEY wanted to do with the card.
 
As a writer, I'm open to criticism and thoughts on a direction that was taken, but if someone's criticism is to rewrite everything involved with it, often without knowing important details or characterization, or future plans, it won't be considered very helpful, even if their suggestion is BETTER.

Well, that's why I asked why there is a lack of people giving suggestions as well as just negative comments on why something sucks or is broken.
Is it because they don't want to impede on the creator, or try to outdo him?
Because I'm pretty sure some of the egos on this site would be willing to do that.

[evilfusion]

My answer was two-fold. One part is saying that I specifically don't like treading on the creator's "creative license", so to speak. The other part is that some people, including me, don't care enough to redesign the card themselves for the creator's benefit. You could also compare it to a math assignment. Sure, I could give you the answers to be nice, but if you still don't understand the concepts, you won't get anywhere with it. But showing you what to do is time-consuming, and/or I'm not equipped to explain it fully. (In reality, I'm terrible at explaining things, even things I fully understand and can do easily)

 

Some of the egos may be the same way. Either they don't care enough to devote the time beyond the necessities of pointing out the flaws, or they understand the concepts enough themselves, but can't really explain how to fix things in a clear, concise way.

 

Ultimately, though, I assume most people aren't invested enough to really take time and sum up all the bad things and also ways to do them better. At least not for everyone, and definitely not for random topics they peeked into out of curiosity or boredom.

[Captain Murphy ☆]

Nope, its not just you. YCM is horrible at giving actual feedback, which is why new members either leave or stick around and become horrible at giving feedback just like the people who bashed their cards were...

[Mugendramon]

Alternatively, if someone is willing to devote their time to fixing a card thoroughly and explaining why, they probably would not want to do it in a thread; a conversation within it would take significantly longer than through, say, Skype.

[Tormented]

The fault lies in expecting people to comment, also new rules and regulations on the site mean that people have to put more effort into these sort of things, which people don't have.

[Not-so-Radiant Arin]

I used to give constructive criticism in the RC Section, mainly because I was devoted to the site for a while and wanted to see how I could fare in stuff like the Leaderboard. But eventually I found out that most people aren't willing to put forth the effort into revamping their card for the second time, because the damage has already been done from the first version anyway. They just want to make a card as quick as possible five minutes before they leave the door, or in other such scenarios. They don't want to spend an entire day looking up what effects are harmful to the gamestate and what effects are good for the gamestate, what effects are considered overpowered and what effects are considered underpowered, how it all blends together into a card, and how to execute the cardmaking utility. Also, no one is asking for you for critique (considering how dead RC is in the first place) so be thankful you are actually getting some, whether or not it's "constructive". Though I agree mostly that YCM lacks the knowledge of the phrase "Jack Witt Clause", especially nowadays.

[Bahamut - Envoy of the End]

People want to put the time into making their cards / 1on1 contest / writing / role play / whatever, and they expect everybody else to put time into making a ton of comments about it and give them the help or admiration or fun involvement or whatever they're looking for.

 

But people aren't prepared to put the same time, or any sort of time, into giving the feedback on cards / voting on contests / engaging in roleplays / etc that other people make, but that they still expect everyone else to do for them.

 

Or to put it another way if that goes over some of your heads; there are a lot of selfish, self-centered people here, who won't do for others what they expect them to do for them (and yes I, at my worst, fall into this collective as well).

 

YCM in a nutshell.

[Lt. Colonel Remo]

Though I agree mostly that YCM lacks the knowledge of the phrase "Jack Witt Clause", especially nowadays.

Okay time-out I googled the damn phrase and YCM was all that came up. Does the Jack Witt Clause even exist or did some mod invent the term?

[Not-so-Radiant Arin]

The Jack Witt Clause exists on other forums. I can't give any specifics, but I know an old RP site I frequented had the same rule.

[Lt. Colonel Remo]

I'm not arguing the essence of the clause, I just feel like it's wrong to assume everyone knows what it is when a quick Google search brings up nothing. It might just be one of those various forum traditions that a member brought from their own home forum.