Yu-Gi-Oh! Arc-V

[Sleepy]

[spoiler=Me Analyzing Shun]

Shun is probably supposed to be portrayed as a well-intentioned extremist. He has a massive burden on him, having seen his dimension turned into a war ground against an army of Duelists who essentially kill their opponents, and attacked them without provocation. They destroyed the city, burned it to the ground, and even captured his sister. They continue to hunt the remaining Duelists, and he has memories of the destruction, the horror of the Xyz dimension Duelists, once happy, now trapped inside cards, while the invaders laugh cruelly and remorselessly.

 

These people ruined his life. They destroyed everything he held close to him, and even after destroying his city, he still had his sister...until he didn't. This was the last straw. He and his only friend fled the Dimension to form a plan to get an edge on the opponents.

 

You cannot show mercy on the battlefield. He carded LDS people because he NEEDED to get to Reiji. He was certain Reo would surrender a hostage for his son, but Reiji offered a better option, for he planned to fight against his father as well, so they formed a tentative alliance.

 

Shun became enraged when he fought Sora, because Sora was from Academia, and eventually outright admitted it and taunted him with the fact that, to Academia, the Xyz Dimension were playthings. Too weak to put up a fight, and were just toys to be discarded when the fun was over. Even in defeat, Sora refused to admit it, and went on a vendetta, targeting Yuto next.

 

Despite Shun knowing Yuto was in danger, Reiji refused to let him go to help his friend, with good reason, but it was hard to listen to. And after a Duel involving Synchros takes place, Yuto disappears. Shun can't even contact him anymore. And then he finds out Yuya had Dark Rebellion, and Reiji again told him not to confront or question Yuya until he got a chance in the Battle Royale. In said Royale, Sora and some Academia soldiers show up, and Sora Duels Shun again, ultimately winning, but he's saved by a Ruri look-alike formerly working with Academia.

 

Seriously, up to this point, Shun has had no real reason to develop past rage and hatred. Everything that's happened torments him, and his ally is constantly screwing him over, even with good reasoning. Why would he trust people past grudging alliances? Reiji keeps screwing him over at every turn. Hell, Shun was ready to say "funk off" to Reiji when he found out the Lancers were going to the Synchro Dimension, but Serena pointed out his recklessness would just doom him, so he grudgingly delayed.

 

And one of his allies, Dennis, Duels him and Duels TOO WELL for a mere LDS student. So Shun's suspicious of one his allies...and guess what, said ally was a backstabbing member of Academia who admitted to being directly involved with not only Heartland being destroyed (the entire reason Shun's life SUCKS right now) but also Ruri being captured.

 

Uh...I don't know what you're expecting Shun to have developed into at this point. Except something WORSE. More consumed with hate and violence because he can't trust people, and even the people allied with him have this tendency to either lie to him or have another agenda, with maybe the exception of Gogenzaka. He doesn't even fully trust Yuya because Yuya has his best friend's card. Reiji even screwed with his Disk so he can't cardify people (honestly, I think Reiji accomplished this via the card that allowed them to transport to the Synchro Dimension).

 

 

 

 

On the last part:

Reiji could also have studied the cardifying mechanism beforehand if it was on Yuto's duel disk considering he picked it up. That is assuming said disk had it... I never saw Yuto cardify anyone iirc, but he was part of the war so maybe.

[evilfusion]

Yuto probably had the cardifying tech in his Disk, and Reiji probably did analyze it. The question is more how Reiji disabled Shun's without Shun realizing it. My hunch is that the card that had to be "downloaded" into the Lancers' Duel Disks served a secondary function by jamming the cardifying feature in Shun's Disk.

 

We know Shun's card-making tech probably still worked during the Maiami Championship because Reiji contacted him to tell him not to do anything to Sora. We have no idea what happened to the defeated Obelisk Force members. Like...no clue at ALL. They lost and...that was it. Nothing happened to them on-screen. No being taken into custody. Not being seen retreating. Not seen turned into cards. But if Shun's function was disabled at this point, he really should have noticed if he tried to cardify the OF members, so I will assume it was NOT disabled at this time.

 

So it had to have been disabled between the Battle Royale and now. The ideal time to do so would be when Reiji openly gave the Lancers something that modified their Duel Disks in some way that encourages Shun to accept it. And it would make sense to disable the function when going to the Synchro Dimension, because turning people into cards tends to make diplomancy hella difficult.

[Dramatic Crossroad]

[spoiler=agreeing with evilfusion on his Shun oppinion] 

I couldn't have compiled it better if i tried - reasons why Kurosaki is the way he is and why it is only normal to be like that, considering his story on and off-screen. 

 

 

[spoiler=plot further down the road]

 

Regarding recent events, i'm pretty baffled of what the City counsil plans to do - will they realise the're almost in Academia's graps with Security on top? Will they take a chance and trust the Lancers to save them from Roger's coup d'etat? Who knows, maybe Jack and the Akaba siblings will guard them from the Goyos in an attempt to win their trust or something else equally as weird?

 

 

As for Batman's theory, i doubt the writers will use the break/rebuild cliché again, i think we've seen enough of that already. I'm not saying things might not get intense, it's bound to get entertaining, but yeah. He's seen what the audience likes

 

 

[Blake]

See, the problem with the posts defending Shun... Is that you're defending him on the basis of either real people (only works for Yuya, as he's intentionally played human) or that he hasn't had a chance to develop.

 

The former does not work, because this is fiction. It doesn't MATTER that it's logical for him to be this way, he should still have some extra character trait(s), even if it's just a random quirk that lets you glimpse at the person he was before all of this. The closest we've gotten in 55-60 episodes is Dennis saying that Shun wanted to be a pro in the past. That's nothing.

 

As for no chances, that's both on the character and the writers. He had 10~ episodes where he was a better character, but immediately reverted. He didn't keep the development at all, despite it happening, and it just feels like it was wasted.

 

The fact that he hasn't had other handed is just an example of poor writing, and by extension, a poor character.

 

The fact his duels are plot deviced to hell and back doesn't help

[Dramatic Crossroad]

Chill @Black, stop feeling so deeply disturbed or personally offended by Shun critique and praises.

Noone is attacking/defending anyone anymore, we just love the show and contemplate about what we like/dislike in certain characters, can't you let it go. I can see you're pretty into Yuya considering your rename and avatar, but flamewars agains fans of either char. aren't constructive. Every single main in Arc-V has his own personal angst and whatever, i'm thinking we're overanalyzing sh*t that most of the time,...and about things i don't think the writers pay much attention to (i'm not saying they don't, but we're pulling out pretty far-fetched theories sometimes - i personally make that a lot, very frequently).

 

 

If Academia only invaded Heartland to capture Ruri, though... why would they invade the Synchro dimension?

 

Supposedly they have nothing to do in that place anyway, since they have snatched Rin, as prev. mentioned. It still boggles me though why they (Leo and Academia) pay no particular attention to Yuto,Yugo, and Yuya... who invented a new summoning method!!! Are these 4 girls this powerful enough so the're ignoring the other counterpart personas? 

[Blake]

Chill @Black, stop feeling so deeply disturbed or personally offended by Shun critique and praises.

Noone is attacking/defending anyone anymore, we just love the show and contemplate about what we like/dislike in certain characters, can't you let it go. I can see you're pretty into Yuya considering your rename and avatar, but flamewars agains fans of either char. aren't constructive. Every single main in Arc-V has his own personal angst and whatever, i'm thinking we're overanalyzing sh*t that most of the time,...and about things i don't think the writers pay much attention to (i'm not saying they don't, but we're pulling out pretty far-fetched theories sometimes - i personally make that a lot, very frequently).

flamewar wat

 

there's nothing remotely flamewarlike about this, and you're the one that needs to chill if you think that it is ._.

[Mr Dr Professor Spaz]

If Academia only invaded Heartland to capture Ruri, though... why would they invade the Synchro dimension?

 

My thoughts for this are simple. They could have found out that Yuzu ended up in the Synchro dimension. How would Academia have found out? Probably something to do with Dennis. And it was already implied in a flashback (don't remember which episode) that Synchro would be invaded.

[Blake]

So... realistic characters are bad. What? And it's not just Yuya who is intentionally portrayed realistically. The writers seem to be attempting to portray all of the main cast realistically. I mean, you could argue that nobody would be THAT emotionally repressed (and you'd be wrong), or that him being only defined by his desire for revenge isn't actually realistic at all. That would be a more sensible objection, though again, he hasn't had any occasion to show other sides than this side, since he's always on his guard.

 

I'll agree with you for one thing: I do hope that he'll show some other parts of his personality in the future. But I can't fault the writers for putting his development on delay for now. They had some more important stuff to do than develop Shun, someone who hasn't had many reasons to develop for now. And no, managing to win one battle with the help of Gongenzaka isn't enough.

 

That's my two cents on it. Free to disagree, but I personally think that you're expecting too much for a character that isn't in the spotlight as much as Yuya, Reiji, Reira and Yuzu during this arc.

I phrased it poorly, but it's a common theme in fiction. Comedy makes it even more clear, so I'll just use that as an example.

 

You either want an insane main character in an insane world... Or a sane main character in an insane world. That maximizes entertainment value most times, though moreso in comedy. Exceptions exist, but that's the formula that works best.

 

You don't watch things for them to be realistic because. let's be honest... Realistic is boring when you can have giant funking cerberus robot transformer things. And that's just it.

 

Dennis, for example. He's not neccesarily a wild and zany character, but he's not played super straight, even as a mole.

 

He genuinely seems to like the people he's met in his line of work, and he hates that he has to hurt them, much preferring to stick to his role. This isn't something you'd expect to happen IRL OR in fiction for the most part, and it really defines who Dennis is. He's a good guy, at heart, with a job and role to play that interferes with that.

 

Shun has had opportunities to be developed, but it's been glossed over. The entire finale of the Miami Championship was a huge chance at this, and having him be told "shut up and wait while we defend you" could have led to more... But it didn't.

 

Let's look over the group as a whole:

• Yuya has developed a lot.
• Yuzu has developed decently from the start
• Gong has developed in his resolutions, to the point that he went against his father in order to improve
• Sora's shown to be arrogant, malicious, and sadistic, but also shown to truly enjoy entertainment duels and the like. He really did like Yuya and had a fun time with him, but he, like all of Academia, seems to have a sense of justice behind his malicious actions. Either this is just a means to defend how horribly they act, or if they have a real reason and it got out of hand (ie The Crusades, sorta), it adds depth to his actions.
• Sawatari has developed a lot. While he still comes off as a spoiled brat, he has calmed down some, reacts to people better, and is all around more refined from when he started. And we've seen him slowly develop from the very beginning of the series.
• Dennis started as a goofball who idolized Yuya's dad, as far as we knew... And quickly grew into a more important role. He came across creepy at times, but also playful, and a bit dark inside. He developed and got refined as a character before our eyes almost every time he was on screen.
• Tsukikage recently got some of this, though he's been a bro since he first showed up. Could do with more for sure, though.
• Serena is also poor, but she hasn't been on screen half as much as Shun and does show signs of changing in the little bits she's been on.
• Reira recently developed, despite having less time than Shun, but his development was due to the catalyst named Yuya... Which makes sense. It led to him finding his personality after exposure.
• Yuto had a lot less time than Shun overall, but we got to see that ,deep inside, he did want peace. Sure, he was on his deathbed, but it was a big deal. We see Yuto's rage, but we also see his desire to protect from his very reveal.
• Yugo... Yugo is king of the dorks. He started out as an upset random, then a badass with an unfortunate name, and then just king of the dorks. He has a fuckton of personality ,too, which makes him absolutely shine for the scenes he gets.

The problem with Shun in regards to these... Is the sheer leve lof importance he's given. He's no Yuya or Yuzu, but he's as important as Gong, if not more, to the story on the whole.

 

We've even had flashbacks with Shun, so they could have shown something in there. Like when Yugo v Yuri happened, Ruri was missing but they didn't know exacts. They could have shown him being distraught, in pain, anything. Instead they presented the same stoic, angry bastard he always is. 

 

And I left Reiji out on purpose.

 

Reiji is played up to be powerful and stoic, but calculating and always has a plan. His actions are questionable, but his character is shown to be working for the greater good, instead of being hate/vengeance incarnate. And Reiji seems to want some form of revenge, as well.

 

And his interactions with Reira... You can tell on one hand he's trying to guide Reira along and expects obedience, but we DO get glimpses that he genuinely cares about Reira. It's not blood, but they are brothers, and it adds depth to Reiji's character, and makes us wonder why he acts so questionably even more.

 

Shun has been played straight as an Edgy Avenger, and it's sad that we're 75 episodes in (55-60 episodes for Shun) and he hasn't really developed. He had maybe half a moment of paying back a debt to Gong, and he's since done nothing except act hateful. Ripping Dennis' mask off, for example.

 

While I won't say it isn't a bit of personality being shown, as it technically is, but ripping Dennis' mask off just further shows the flaws with Shun. He's an Edgy Avenger who won't take no for an answer ,and... It just is not deep. He likely made everything worse by doing so, instead of letting Reiji take it into his own hands, and just lost them a temporary ally and the (non-existant) favor of the council. While making things go to hell like this is not necessarily wrong, it really speaks to how straight he's played, and how lacking in depth he is, as he really didn't think about anything other than ruining Dennis. It came across petty and unwarranted, as any other method would have been betterm instead of unleashing the beast.

[Neutrality Man]

You've never encountered a war veteran who saw people he cared for be lost, have you, Black? Captain Falcon is being written perfectly for his role.

1. His entire dimension of reality is destroyed
2. Everyone he had ever met before the story started was turned into Level 0, no ATK, no DEF Normal Monster Duel Monster cards, which is currently implied to be irreversible.
3. He's quite possibly one of just 3 survivors of event 2 at this point, alongside Ruri, his kid sister, and Yuto, his best friend.
4. Said best friend is currently an overlay material on the Xyz Monster known only as Berserk Yuya. As far as anyone, in-universe or out knows, this is just as "dead" as being carded.
5. Said kid sister is in the hands of the people that caused point 1.

Quite frankly, you're asking Kurosaki to reenact that scene from Digimon Movie where the 02 Gogglehead is crying his eyes out over Cocomon's history and immediately after being told to cheer up says "Okay! :D" with a smile. AKA the weakest character point. Such a thing just. doesn't. happen.

 

What makes him a good character is that he's developing at the same pace a real person would in his situation. It's believable that he'd continue being a rage-fueled jackass all this time. Ruri is still in danger, so his entire motivation is still "Rescue baby sister!", and part of a deconstruction is treating everything with real-world logic.

 

As for how he reacted to Dennis's reveal. He's staring at the man directly responsible for his sister being kidnapped. Of funking COURSE he's going to Rank-Up his rage and direct it at him. HE'S THE LEGITIMATE TARGET. Shun had every reason to take any steps back he did here.

[Blake]

You've never encountered a war veteran who saw people he cared for be lost, have you, Black? Captain Falcon is being written perfectly for his role.

 

• His entire dimension of reality is destroyed
• Everyone he had ever met before the story started was turned into Level 0, no ATK, no DEF Normal Monster Duel Monster cards, which is currently implied to be irreversible.
• He's quite possibly one of just 3 survivors of event 2 at this point, alongside Ruri, his kid sister, and Yuto, his best friend.
• Said best friend is currently an overlay material on the Xyz Monster known only as Berserk Yuya. As far as anyone, in-universe or out knows, this is just as "dead" as being carded.
• Said kid sister is in the hands of the people that caused point 1.

Quite frankly, you're asking Kurosaki to reenact that scene from Digimon Movie where the 02 Gogglehead is crying his eyes out over Cocomon's history and immediately after being told to cheer up says "Okay! :D" with a smile. AKA the weakest character point. Such a thing just. doesn't. happen.

 

What makes him a good character is that he's developing at the same pace a real person would in his situation. It's believable that he'd continue being a rage-fueled jackass all this time. Ruri is still in danger, so his entire motivation is still "Rescue baby sister!", and part of a deconstruction is treating everything with real-world logic.

 

As for how he reacted to Dennis's reveal. He's staring at the man directly responsible for his sister being kidnapped. Of funking COURSE he's going to Rank-Up his rage and direct it at him. HE'S THE LEGITIMATE TARGET. Shun had every reason to take any steps back he did here.

on phone so keeping this rife

 

I mean, you're ignoring the entire points my last post made, while also using extreme hyperbole to poorly bolster your point. That 02 example was actually the worst.

 

I said nothing about him reacting to Dennis' reveal. I said ripping his mask off was the issue with how the situation was handled from his end. Please read.

 

The fact remains that he has been nothing but an edgelord. Realism should not be at the expense of presentation. Again, while nowhere near exact, Book 1 Zuko is a rage fueled jackass. He still manages to be a deep character.

 

There is no excuse for him lacking any personality trait outside of edgy avenger. Everything you said applies to a Yuto bar the sister, who is instead implied love interest, so that breaks your points down.

[Pchi]

I think the main point that Black is trying to present us is that, even if Shun's character is realistic, that does not make him more appealing. He still comes off as flat due to not much about him being revealed; his edgy avenger schtick could get a pass if we're told more about his past or other aspects of his persona; instead, we only get the same thing over and over, and the novelty ends up wearing off. To sum it up, the problem with Shun is that he's become boring to watch (outside a few duels, perhaps), and his character comes off as two-dimensional and cliché. Him not changing at all, at least IMO, would be ok if we got more insight on his persona, to understand why he's like that while Yuuto, who went through the same experiences, isn't. Sometimes, a character not evolving might be a good thing, because we'll occasionally meet people who are like that IRL - but you have to find another means to keep them compelling.

[Sleepy]

Chill @Black, stop feeling so deeply disturbed or personally offended by Shun critique and praises.

Noone is attacking/defending anyone anymore, we just love the show and contemplate about what we like/dislike in certain characters, can't you let it go. I can see you're pretty into Yuya considering your rename and avatar, but flamewars agains fans of either char. aren't constructive. Every single main in Arc-V has his own personal angst and whatever, i'm thinking we're overanalyzing sh*t that most of the time,...and about things i don't think the writers pay much attention to (i'm not saying they don't, but we're pulling out pretty far-fetched theories sometimes - i personally make that a lot, very frequently).

 

 

 

Supposedly they have nothing to do in that place anyway, since they have snatched Rin, as prev. mentioned. It still boggles me though why they (Leo and Academia) pay no particular attention to Yuto,Yugo, and Yuya... who invented a new summoning method!!! Are these 4 girls this powerful enough so the're ignoring the other counterpart personas? 

 

 

I know this one has already been addressed but still needed to comment on it.

I think that regardless of the side of the discussion anyone is on, so far it has been deep and serious but in no way aggressive or hateful. In fact, it is a pretty interesting read overall, and lengthy discussions like this one are among my personal favorite things to read around this forum. I can see the point he's making, though it hasn't bothered enough to notice it before it was brought up in this thread. Hmm let's see....

 

 

 

- - - - -

 

 

 

Yeah I have also noticed a small trend here. More often than not, the people that liked Shun at the start of this discussion started off with mentioning his duels. He might have some plot devices here and there but the duels are some of the highest points in the series.

 

Well, leaving his dueling in the above point aside, I think the concept of "we'll let our hearts's content show during this encounter" is not a new thing at all, be it any kind of games/sports/etc. In the case of Yugioh, I can't point out a scenario off the top of my head but I'm pretty sure "we'll do the cards do the talking" has been done before. It is part of the world of Yugioh here. I'd say Shun wasn't doing as badly as it might seem. Sure, he'll sound like a ball of hate in that scene if described as "desperately trying to take off Dennis's mask". The same scenario could also be interpreted as:

-Shun has dueled plenty of LDS tops from the main establishment so it isn't a hunch out of nowhere.

-Shun communicated his suspicion, and Dennis's answer would decide the follow-up.

-Of course Dennis did not answer seriously. If he didn't properly go address his partner's claim and instead brushed it off with the entertainment act, of course it was in a way evading the topic, even if Shun does have a lot in the "kill-joy" department admittedly.

In short, I can see how Dennis's answer and actions could have annoyed Shun and have it snowball into the usual, but I wouldn't say Shun was savagely going at it from the get go.

 

Or well... it isn't out of the question that Shun would have those thoughts of suspicion without much effort. Even without going to the "war" topic, just any civilians that get out of prison after a long period of time usually are more aware of their surroundings, to almost paranoid degrees. I once heard the story about which said "look at all these people walking around so carefree. They don't realize how easy they could be killed" after he had been free for a few days. At the very least Shun is analyzing stuff around him so there's a serious face but that doesn't mean rage necessarily.

 

While at it, Dennis's actions here might be here for comparison purposes, for when Yuya grows beyond this kind of entertainment that Dennis does. Yes Dennis was great at setting the mood, but he rarely took opponents' seriously and in a way that could be considered a form of disrespect. Or well... Yuya already does his best all the time so this one is probably moot.

[The Warden]

I just hate how Shun has at least 5 RUMs in his deck now, and he always sacks the one needed to turn the duel around, every, freaking time. I have seriously no idea how a deck as inconsistent as his (read: 3 Wild Vultures (level 6)) somehow manages to pull off those wins beyond his "iron will and determination", even though at times he is incredibly petty and not at all strong-willed when he lets his baser emotions get the better of him. He rides on the coattails of plot convenience and it is downright annoying.

[Dramatic Crossroad]

I just hate how Shun has at least 5 RUMs in his deck now, and he always sacks the one needed to turn the duel around, every, freaking time. I have seriously no idea how a deck as inconsistent as his (read: 3 Wild Vultures (level 6)) somehow manages to pull off those wins beyond his "iron will and determination", even though at times he is incredibly petty and not at all strong-willed when he lets his baser emotions get the better of him. He rides on the coattails of plot convenience and it is downright annoying.

 

Isn't that how every deck in every yu-gi-oh series works so far?

How do people win in the card game? By putting cards that have synergy and work well together. That may be true, but the logic does not apply for anime, cause we can never know what cards a character has in his deck in any given duel, cause new cards are constantly spewn out, sometimes as a plot device (Zexal's card-creating shining draws and Yusei's accel synchro card discovery)

The writers pre-plan the duel as for a certain outcome and the characters get the card to play (or to be useless in their hand, or whatever was intended). Didn't Atem stack like 10 monsters under his Berserker Soul card?

 

Also, players that have intersearchable cards have no use of stacking their deck (and Shun plays seachers like Mace, Strix, Symbol and Call - in his recent duels), so what is the issue here? You can't be annoyed the fact that Dennis stacked 3 pendulum monsters and a pendulum drawing card on top, but RUM is somehow problematic?

[The Warden]

No, it's because he bullshits the reason. "Iron will and determination"? Masumi and the other two were hellbent on making him pay for what he did to Marco, and yet somehow his revenge mattered more when they were getting vengeance for the smegging reason. He took someone precious away from her, as well as her fellow LDS members. She wanted revenge, and the other two were helping her do it. But apparently she just wasn't wishing hard enough when Shun asspulled the one card that would save his ass. And thus she gets shafted, rendering her entire sub-plot completely pointless just to show off how bad-ass Batman is.

 

And it is just so damn irritating how he always asspulls the right god damn RUM each time. Yuya at least has the excuse of Action Cards, and he's also bricked twice. If you're going to topdeck sheet, fine, just don't justify it with bullshit reasoning, cuz, Shun is the only one who does, and it's annoying since he always wins by bullshit lucksacks.

[Neutrality Man]

Of course Shun's revenge was more important... the difference is in the scale. They were three out to avenge 1 man; Shun is one man out to avenge an entire planet.

[shadowsapex]

"Heart of the cards" isn't a bullshit lucksack? This is Yugioh! This kind of stuff happens all the time, literally every single episode. If you can't deal with it, I don't know what to say to you.

Of course Shun matters more than Masumi. Side characters are just that forgettable in this anime (see Zexal), and they have lots of other plots to develop. And what reasoning does any other character give just before their destiny draw?

 

And no, not an entire planet. Just Heartland got destroyed, and I doubt they have the resources to turn everyone on the planet to cards. Of course, that does beg the question of what exactly the rest of the planet is doing.

[evilfusion]

Shun actually stated that the LDS students lacked the iron will/steely resolve/whatever. They were dedicated and skilled, but they weren't literally risking their lives. Shun trained and fought battles in a war battleground, where losing the Duel was essentially death. The LDS students had never gone through such situations. If driven into a corner, they would falter in comparison to someone who is putting everything on the line all the time. LDS students Duel for their ego and status. The members of the Resistance Duels to survive.

 

This is WHY Dennis was so freaking suspicious to Shun in the first place. For a 'mere' LDS student, he was incredibly skilled, and his tactics went beyond simply trying to win.

 

Yugioh is a series where drawing miracle cards on the strength of will is actually totally normal, and you're supposed to accept that no one ever topdecks something useless when the match depends on it, unless the anti-climax is deliberate (Aporia vs Z-One). Arc-V has been REALLY GOOD at sharing this skill with all the characters. I noted before that everyone draws amazing topdecks, constantly. Not just one miracle at the end that turns it around (though these do exist), but it's equal footing much of the time.

 

You could gripe that Shun's iron will claim is bullshit. And it is, in a realistic, non-Yugioh setting. Take luck out of the equation now. Assume every Duelist will almost always draw whatever card they really want at that moment.

 

Shun's iron will is his tactics of staying alive, even if it reduces his LP nearly to nothing in the process. As long as he has LP left, he can survive to keep fighting. That's the mindset of a member of an ever-dwindling resistance to an army of Duel soldiers: No matter how many times you're knocked down, you must keep standing. You must get back up. You must fight back. You must WIN. Or else everything is screwed.

 

By comparison, whose strength of will rivals that?

[The Warden]

The only time he didn't lucksack was the time he lost, and that was to Sora. The fact of the matter is is that, while yes, there have been a fair few miracle topdecks, the obnoxious factor is amplified in Shun is that practically every single topdeck win he makes is off-of a plot device. Either a RUM, or that convenient card that let him Xyz using 3 of the same monster from the Graveyard, which all 3 Vanishing Lanius conveniently were. It gets old after a while that you're practically expecting Shun to win in some BS manner because the plot basically mandates he does. Even Yuya has lost more times than Shun has, and his plot devices are Action Cards. The only time Yuya really asspulled was against Neo New Sawatari, and that was fair enough since he was facing funking Yosenju, an actually powerful archetype.

 

Yuya, also, has lost multiple times, with his two on-screen losses to Reiji and Jack, plus many more off-screen ones as well. Shun wouldn't be so bad if not for the fact that frankly, his luck has only run out once, and that was the only time he lost. It wouldn't be so bad if he had a personality that was at likeable or a deck that was at least consistent, since it is absurdly odd that a deck that focuses on Xyz should run 4 different and somewhat incompatible levels (1, 3, 4, 6). And those level 4s, his mainstay level, haven't even been seen for 3 duels now.

 

It wouldn't be so bad if he didn't asspull every single god damn time to secure a win. The only time I could even count him using genuine strategy was his first duel with Sora, and that's only because he already had the outs. (Minus the bullshit with him evading Frightfur Leo's effect for almost a minute just to grab an Action Card.) My point is is that Shun pulls off more bullshit than the actual protagonist of the series, and that's including the spontaneous generation of Pendulum. It wouldn't be so bad if he didn't use some horseshit justification for his lucksack plot device cards.

[VCR_CAT]

I think it would be good to give the series a benefit of a doubt and wait until we see how they flesh out Shun's character before we make any final judgments. But first, re: bullshit in the duels.

 

Honestly, I haven't minded Shun's bullshit all that much, and I hated how many plot-device cards were in Zexal. Yeah, he does have lucksacky wins with the RUM, but they honestly haven't been that lucksacky. Shun's duels haven't been my favorite, but I've never found them offensively bad and it is my honest opinion that some of you are over-reacting a little.

 

If anything, I feel like we haven't seen enough of Shun's character to make any real big judgment calls. In terms of duels in the series, so far there have been worse than Shun, as there are better than Shun. But overall, I think we should wait and see what they do with his character. I mean, it is a little annoying to poo-poo Shun for plot device cards after that BS Dennis pulled in that last duel. Also, let's not forget how Shun won a pretty key duel entirely because of a CERTAIN SOMEONE MISPLAYING

[Flash Flyer - Sakura]

I admit that Shun resorting to multiple RUMs does get stale after a while; I won't deny that, especially since all of them are exclusive to that Deck only + ended up giving him access to stuff that they normally wouldn't summon in the traditional manner. Though, it isn't Shining Draw or whatever that makes cards out of thin air, so I suppose it isn't THAT bad.

 

RRs are mostly Rank 4, but indeed we haven't seen Rise Falcon or Strix since his match with Sora and whenever.

Then again, assume that whatever support we have for them at this moment does not exist in the animeverse.

 

But yeah, Dennis did pull out a random Ancient Gear boss fusion in that match, so Shun's not the only one who pulls things out of thin air.

 

It would be nice to see other characters using RUMs except Shun though; I would assume Yuto probably has one of his own, but we won't see them. 

 

----

As for the iron will thing, that explains why Sakuragi ran off after Yugo saved his ass from the Obelisk Force a bunch of episodes ago in Standard.

Yes, he won the Maiami Championship last year, so he should have some degree of skill, BUT that was on the premise that it was a simple card game.

 

At that point, he saw his comrades sucked into cards, and that meant that his life was in danger.

 

----

 

In all, I'll reserve judgment on Shun until more comes up.

Not going to defend him and say he's cool; he has his moments, but the opinions of him regarding the RUMs/plot device stuff is understandable (he just happens to have some RUM that corresponds to the situation at hand, and various other stuff). 

 

Back when he fought Masumi, Yaiba and Hokuto [i could care less about their English names], there was Readiness, which was just a blatant "I'll have 10 LP and you can't damage me" and wasn't related to his Deck at all. And yes, that convenient Xyz Spell.

[Aman Indra]

Well for starters i would take shun over Yuya anyday because even if yuya is a good main character ( much better than yuma / jaden ) , his style was quite entertaining in starting episodes , then the writers just diluted it and made it annoying by making him say the same words in almost every episode. 

This "Ladies & Gentleman" got very boring to be honest and dennis's "The Show Must Go On" was way more entertaining. But still yuya is a far better MC but the plot and writers force him to be annoying and stupid sometimes , i mean you want to make the people smile who are starting wars and carding people , i would rather straight up bombard them.

Shun is hands down way way cooler than yuya , but the problem again here is , he did the same thing in his every duel ( go rage mode , pull a new rank-up and proceed to gang your opponent)

What i would like to say is that both characters are pretty cool out of recent yugioh characters both a little diluted now , but instead of shitting on both we should let the show unfold and people saying "oh kurosaki!! that noob is all about rage , no character development" should go experience a war and then see what changes it does to one's behaviour and the terror of seeing his sister kidnapped and his land put to waste , hell he even went to card academia , if i had my ways i would have straight away bombard them.

Shun needs some character development i can say that , but complaining about his rage aspect is immature because that's what his whole character is , he is supposed to be the hot headed crash and burn character out of revenge for his sister , not make people smile in the process.

Yuya needs something fresh and he should have his berserk moments more because that add to his character .

With that all being said , both characters are great tbh , Shun needs to be understood , while Yuya needs to be driven in some new directions.

And some people saying that crow would pawn kurosaki or blackwings are better than raidraptors , i can smash Blackwings with Raidraptors any day.

Raidraptors outclass blackwings .

[Aman Indra]

Highly depends on the build. Blackwings are an OTK swarm deck, of course they'll lose if you manage to stall them long enough to pull out your Zerofyne/Revolution Falcon, or if you play a Synchro variant of Raidraptors. Raptors are definitely better at gaining and keeping advantage thanks to Nest and Mimicry, of course.

Well , i have beat every build of blackwings till now with ease , the only problem i ever had was a few look out turns with hawk joe , other than that i creamed through the duel with rank 4 spam , tbh i rarely even go blaze or revolution for win , i plus with nest , mimic/ fuzzy and then keep negating potential backrow or floodgates with icarus.

[Blake]

Well for starters i would take shun over Yuya anyday because even if yuya is a good main character ( much better than yuma / jaden ) , his style was quite entertaining in starting episodes , then the writers just diluted it and made it annoying by making him say the same words in almost every episode. 

This "Ladies & Gentleman" got very boring to be honest and dennis's "The Show Must Go On" was way more entertaining. But still yuya is a far better MC but the plot and writers force him to be annoying and stupid sometimes , i mean you want to make the people smile who are starting wars and carding people , i would rather straight up bombard them.

Shun is hands down way way cooler than yuya , but the problem again here is , he did the same thing in his every duel ( go rage mode , pull a new rank-up and proceed to gang your opponent)

What i would like to say is that both characters are pretty cool out of recent yugioh characters both a little diluted now , but instead of shitting on both we should let the show unfold and people saying "oh kurosaki!! that noob is all about rage , no character development" should go experience a war and then see what changes it does to one's behaviour and the terror of seeing his sister kidnapped and his land put to waste , hell he even went to card academia , if i had my ways i would have straight away bombard them.

Shun needs some character development i can say that , but complaining about his rage aspect is immature because that's what his whole character is , he is supposed to be the hot headed crash and burn character out of revenge for his sister , not make people smile in the process.

Yuya needs something fresh and he should have his berserk moments more because that add to his character .

With that all being said , both characters are great tbh , Shun needs to be understood , while Yuya needs to be driven in some new directions.

And some people saying that crow would pawn kurosaki or blackwings are better than raidraptors , i can smash Blackwings with Raidraptors any day.

Raidraptors outclass blackwings .

did you even read? Like holy hell, half of your shun points have already been cocered, you just regurgitated what others said.

 

Yuto exists. Claiming the war aspect over and over when a similar aspect exists is a dead argument. It doesn't hold any water. Yuto lost everyone AND A LOVE INTEREST in place of a sister. Yet he's not some ball of hate and rage constantly.

 

No one complained that he's not acting like Yuya. Or being happy. And it's this hyperbole that keeps being used to defend Shun arguments, but it, again, fails.

 

He shows absolutely no other indication of character traits outside of rage. Realistic or not, that is not good writing, and it cannot be defended as such when it leaves him almost 1-Dimensional. He's had flashbacks and the like where you could see him grieve when they were out looking for Ruri. Instead, we got th look of somewhat annoyed or angry. That doesn't fit LOSING YOUR SISTER, it just shows laziness in writing.

 

And as for "let shun flesh out", as said earlier, that's another argument already knocked down. He's had 55 or 60 episodes. With plenty of opportunities for some character growth or depth to be added. And nothing has. Whether he improves later or not, at this time shun is a terribly written character.

[Aman Indra]

did you even read? Like holy hell, half of your shun points have already been cocered, you just regurgitated what others said.

 

Yuto exists. Claiming the war aspect over and over when a similar aspect exists is a dead argument. It doesn't hold any water. Yuto lost everyone AND A LOVE INTEREST in place of a sister. Yet he's not some ball of hate and rage constantly.

 

No one complained that he's not acting like Yuya. Or being happy. And it's this hyperbole that keeps being used to defend Shun arguments, but it, again, fails.

 

He shows absolutely no other indication of character traits outside of rage. Realistic or not, that is not good writing, and it cannot be defended as such when it leaves him almost 1-Dimensional. He's had flashbacks and the like where you could see him grieve when they were out looking for Ruri. Instead, we got th look of somewhat annoyed or angry. That doesn't fit LOSING YOUR SISTER, it just shows laziness in writing.

 

And as for "let shun flesh out", as said earlier, that's another argument already knocked down. He's had 55 or 60 episodes. With plenty of opportunities for some character growth or depth to be added. And nothing has. Whether he improves later or not, at this time shun is a terribly written character.

Same can be said for sakaki yuya , he is just "ladies and gentleman" nothing else , he is boring and he is reaching yuma level annoyance even if you like it or not sir.

Shun tbh has much more potential than yuya at this point of the storyline and no one likes a straight up stupid MC.

Only time i like yuya's character is when he goes berserk , atleast we get something new , all the time he just remembers his dad , top decks a pendulum , and its "ladies and gentleman" and we all go facepalm.

Shun is right there with him but yuya and he both stand on the edge of the same bridge when it comes to diluted characters.