Because TCG Holds A Deck's Value Based On Its Price Tag And Not Its Merits [RL Dark Worlds] (Jan 2014)

[Kazooie]

Why do you think I'm not using Beiige, or Gren, or Khakki, or Zure, or Renge?
Because they suck.

Err, Beiige is one of the ones you SHOULD be running.

[Mugendramon]

Why do you think I'm not using Beiige, or Gren, or Khakki, or Zure, or Renge?
Because they suck.

 

...Beiige is better than Goldd and Silva, simply because it can be normal summoned; which is where the other two fail.

[Premier Alexander Romanov]

But with so many discard options, do I really need to worry about not being able to summon Goldd or Silva?
Besides, if I need to use a Normal Summon, I can just use Brro- Oh yeah...removing him...
I guess Beiige can come back into the deck.

[Kazooie]

But with so many discard options, do I really need to worry about not being able to summon Goldd or Silva?

Yes.

Mainly because a Normal Summonable monster like Beiige gives you the ability to summon two Grapha's off of one monster, while using only one of your discard outlets. It's just a more solid choice that Goldd or Silva in that it's more consistent.

[Airride]

But with so many discard options, do I really need to worry about not being able to summon Goldd or Silva?
Besides, if I need to use a Normal Summon, I can just use Brro- Oh yeah...removing him...
I guess Beiige can come back into the deck.

With Beiige and gates, that alone can summon 2 Grapha/turn, which is really good.

Plus, it's better to have the option and not need it, than to need it and not have it.

[Toffee.]

Mainly because a Normal Summonable monster like Beiige gives you the ability to summon two Grapha's off of one monster, while using only one of your discard outlets. It's just a more solid choice that Goldd or Silva in that it's more consistent.

This^
While it's nice that Goldd/Silva are beaters, you still want something you can play without really doing much for, since it's going to support other cards in your Deck in the long run.

[Premier Alexander Romanov]

This^
While it's nice that Goldd/Silva are beaters, you still want something you can play without really doing much for, since it's going to support other cards in your Deck in the long run.

And by "other cards", you mean "Grapha"? :3
Also, I don't think anyone has mentioned Morphing Jar.
Plus, how is Dragged so useful? You have no say in the card you discard.

[Althemia]

And by "other cards", you mean "Grapha"? :3
Also, I don't think anyone has mentioned Morphing Jar.
Plus, how is Dragged so useful? You have no say in the card you discard.

The important part is that your opponent has to discard one of your Dark Worlds while you get to choose whatever the hell they discard to mess them up the most.

[Wildflame]

...Yeah, not going to read all 5 pages of this.

 

I find Morphing Jar to be subpar too. You literally don't set anything else in DWs, and good players that are aware of what you're playing know better than to attack into it, they'll probably pop it somehow, or wait a turn and Veiler/Fiendish it.

[Dog King]

And by "other cards", you mean "Grapha"? :3
Also, I don't think anyone has mentioned Morphing Jar.
Plus, how is Dragged so useful? You have no say in the card you discard.

oh god.....are you actually serious

 

after reading this thread....

 

well heres a skeleton of what you prob should be running

 

3 grapha

3 snoww

3 broww

 

3 gates

3 dragged down

2-3 dark world dealings

3 upstart goblin

 

3 reckless greed

 

now you need some more monsters

1-2 beiige 

its good as it can be normal summoned and ss'd

0-2 silvva 

0-2 tour guide

this may be a bit costly but it can summon broww and then you return it to hand with grapha

running 1 would be the best and also there are some good rank 3s which barely cost nothing

0-2 raven

0-2 trance archfiend

use about 2-3 of those above cards

they are the best monsters to discard

if you dont have any synchros just run the trance archfiends, they are cheaper anyway

 

anyway you dont want to use too many non dark world monsters so they dont discard them with dragged down

 

for spells

run the dark hole

run book of moon

run 0-3 mst, your choice really

 

for traps just use something like

1 solemn warning if you can get this

then run your 3 other good traps which you have which are bottomless, torrential, compulsory

use eradicator epedemic virus

use um mirror force or d prison or something if you still have space

maybe like 1 dark smog

 

and for extra if you can get any cheap xyz such as utopia, zenmaines etc, use them

 

I may have missed something for the main deck but i got most of it covered

[Premier Alexander Romanov]

oh god.....are you actually serious
 
after reading this thread....
 
well heres a skeleton of what you prob should be running
 
3 grapha
3 snoww
3 broww
 
3 gates
3 dragged down
2-3 dark world dealings
3 upstart goblin
 
3 reckless greed
 
now you need some more monsters
1-2 beiige 
its good as it can be normal summoned and ss'd
0-2 silvva 
0-2 tour guide
this may be a bit costly but it can summon broww and then you return it to hand with grapha
running 1 would be the best and also there are some good rank 3s which barely cost nothing
0-2 raven
0-2 trance archfiend
use about 2-3 of those above cards
they are the best monsters to discard
if you dont have any synchros just run the trance archfiends, they are cheaper anyway
 
anyway you dont want to use too many non dark world monsters so they dont discard them with dragged down
 
for spells
run the dark hole
run book of moon
run 0-3 mst, your choice really
 
for traps just use something like
1 solemn warning if you can get this
then run your 3 other good traps which you have which are bottomless, torrential, compulsory
use eradicator epedemic virus
use um mirror force or d prison or something if you still have space
maybe like 1 dark smog
 
and for extra if you can get any cheap xyz such as utopia, zenmaines etc, use them
 
I may have missed something for the main deck but i got most of it covered

And how much will these changes cost?

[Toffee.]

And how much will these changes cost?

Depends on where you buy them from.

[evilfusion]

Well, that was a fun 5 pages of reading.

 

Good god, you really did jump into a tank of piranhas.

 

From my experience running Dark Worlds ages ago, Goldd and Sillva clog like hell. If you can use them, they do amazing stuff. If you can't use them, they suck so badly that you will die. Brron is bad because it has 1800 ATK and has to inflict damage to do anything. It also doesn't have a "when discarded effect", so you won't get any benefit from having it in your hand. Beiige, by contrast, SSes itself when discarded and while it's weaker than Brron, that discarded effect is crucial to its value. I always thought it was overrated, but now that I really think of it, I was well off the mark.

[Dog King]

well im not sure what currency you are in so ill use dollars

but dragged downs cost about 3  each

upstarts might cost slightly more

reckless greeds are 1 each

umm tour guide atm is like 7 and you dont really need it too much so you dont have to get it

fabled raven is 3 (but you only use this if you can get some cheap synchros

and there are some which cost 1-3)

trance archfiend costs about 1

utopia costs 1 

and a lot of other rank 4s cost 5 and lower

also im pretty sure ive seen a dw build that topped with 1 bronn

unless im mistaking it with something else 

[Premier Alexander Romanov]

well im not sure what currency you are in so ill use dollars
but dragged downs cost about 3  each
upstarts might cost slightly more
reckless greeds are 1 each
umm tour guide atm is like 7 and you dont really need it too much so you dont have to get it
fabled raven is 3 (but you only use this if you can get some cheap synchros
and there are some which cost 1-3)
trance archfiend costs about 1
utopia costs 1 
and a lot of other rank 4s cost 5 and lower


also im pretty sure ive seen a dw build that topped with 1 bronn
unless im mistaking it with something else 

So, like the others, you want me to double the cost of my deck?
And, again, why do I need an Extra Deck?
Finally, why is Dragged Down better than Morphing Jar?
I feel like I get more for Morphing Jar.

[evilfusion]

Morphing is a double-edged sword. On one hand, it gives you a lot of draw power and ditches your Dark Worlds. But it gives your opponent a fresh hand, and this will probably kill you. Dark Worlds can handle the end game with Grapha and the plethora of card advantage they usually have at this point. Giving your opponent more resources will make it HARDER for you to win right there. It's only really good early game, before your opponent has blown through their hand.

[Dog King]

morphing jar doesnt manipulate your opponents hand

dragged down does and gets rid of their problem cards

jar must be set flipped etc EDIT: and pretty much what evilfusion said in the above post

dragged can be used staight away in multiples to get rid of their problem cards which could hurt it

while dragged down is a +0 always in the deck and lets you pull of your dark world effects etc

dragged down is pretty important in the deck and its cheap

why wouldnt you need an extra deck? it only costs a bit more and lets you have xyz and synchro options if you run tour guide and or fabled raven and or trance archfiend

which are good to run btw

 

just trade off the rest of your dw deck cards which you dont need and add in some money its not much lol only about 30 

and you should get the cards you need probably and make your deck more consistent etc.

[Premier Alexander Romanov]

Morphing is a double-edged sword. On one hand, it gives you a lot of draw power and ditches your Dark Worlds. But it gives your opponent a fresh hand, and this will probably kill you. Dark Worlds can handle the end game with Grapha and the plethora of card advantage they usually have at this point. Giving your opponent more resources will make it HARDER for you to win right there. It's only really good early game, before your opponent has blown through their hand.

But isn't Dragged Down also a double-edged sword?
You have no choice in what card gets discarded, so your opponent could avoid your Grapha and go for your Beiige.

morphing jar doesnt manipulate your opponents hand
dragged down does and gets rid of their problem cards
jar must be set flipped etc EDIT: and pretty much what evilfusion said in the above post
dragged can be used staight away in multiples to get rid of their problem cards which could hurt it
while dragged down is a +0 always in the deck and lets you pull of your dark world effects etc
dragged down is pretty important in the deck and its cheap
why wouldnt you need an extra deck? it only costs a bit more and lets you have xyz and synchro options if you run tour guide and or fabled raven and or trance archfiend
which are good to run btw

just trade off the rest of your dw deck cards which you dont need and add in some money its not much lol only about 30
and you should get the cards you need probably and make your deck more consistent etc.

You all don't seem to understand!
This is a REAL-LIFE Deck!
I DON'T HAVE MONEY I CAN BLOW WHENEVER I WANT!!!
I CANNOT AFFORD $50 WORTH OF CARDS!!!
Is it really that hard to understand?!?

[evilfusion]

With Dragged Down, imagine this situation.

 

You open Dragged, Grapha, Broww, Snoww, Dark World Dealings, and a Trap card. You set your Dealings and Trap card. You use Dragged Down, and you send one of their best cards. They have to decide whether to let you draw an extra card (Broww) search for a DW card (Snoww), or give you Grapha in the Grave. The wise player will send Broww, since Snoww can grab a card that'll let you send Grapha anyway.

 

You use Dragged Down to ruin your opponent's combos/options while giving them a choice they can't possibly benefit from. If you're running other cards like Brron or Jar that end up in your hand alongside Dragged, THEN they have an easy card to choose because sending that card won't hurt them immediately.

 

You never use Dragged Down unless you are guaranteed to send a DW card, and the extra draw might give you a way to send the DW you really wanted to send.

[Premier Alexander Romanov]

With Dragged Down, imagine this situation.
 
You open Dragged, Grapha, Broww, Snoww, Dark World Dealings, and a Trap card. You set your Dealings and Trap card. You use Dragged Down, and you send one of their best cards. They have to decide whether to let you draw an extra card (Broww) search for a DW card (Snoww), or give you Grapha in the Grave. The wise player will send Broww, since Snoww can grab a card that'll let you send Grapha anyway.
 
You use Dragged Down to ruin your opponent's combos/options while giving them a choice they can't possibly benefit from. If you're running other cards like Brron or Jar that end up in your hand alongside Dragged, THEN they have an easy card to choose because sending that card won't hurt them immediately.
 
You never use Dragged Down unless you are guaranteed to send a DW card, and the extra draw might give you a way to send the DW you really wanted to send.

But now, I have a Dark World Dealings, which I could've used INSTEAD, set down, unable to be activated this turn.
Also, I just revealed my hand to my opponent. I don't like getting intel that makes me reveal my own strategy.

[evilfusion]

But now, I have a Dark World Dealings, which I could've used INSTEAD, set down, unable to be activated.

 

Not true. Only Quickplays cannot be used the turn they're Set. Normal Spells, Equip Spells, and Field Spells can.

[Premier Alexander Romanov]

Not true. Only Quickplays cannot be used the turn they're Set. Normal Spells, Equip Spells, and Field Spells can.

...
I didn't know that.
But I just feel like the cons (revealing my hand and not being able to choose the card I send, then giving the opponent a card to replace the one I sent) outweigh the pros (seeing my opponent's hand and sending one of their cards).
At least, with Morphing Jar, I can force them to rethink their strategy by dumping their hand, while I can benefit from ALL of my Dark Worlds being discarded, gaining more pluses.

[evilfusion]

Knowing you have Dark Worlds in your hand is not going to help them much. Especially since Dragged is really the only card that gives them any say in what you're discarding, and you're probably hurting their strategy quite a bit. However, you knowing THEIR hand is going to hurt them a LOT. Especially if you're running Mind Crush and similar. It's one of the reasons Trap Dustshoot got banned.

 

Morphing Jar only helps if you have Dark Worlds in your hand, and no Spells to discard them already. You can keep Jar in a budget Dark World Deck without a problem, but keep in mind that giving your opponent 5 cards is not forcing them to "rethink" their strategy unless they lost a full hand. If I ran into a Morphing Jar with my Galaxy Deck, I'd be thrilled because that Deck struggles with draw power and getting 5 new cards is almost sure to open up more combos.

 

The later in the game it is, the more Morphing Jar is going to hurt you.

[Premier Alexander Romanov]

Knowing you have Dark Worlds in your hand is not going to help them much. Especially since Dragged is really the only card that gives them any say in what you're discarding, and you're probably hurting their strategy quite a bit. However, you knowing THEIR hand is going to hurt them a LOT. Especially if you're running Mind Crush and similar. It's one of the reasons Trap Dustshoot got banned.
 
Morphing Jar only helps if you have Dark Worlds in your hand, and no Spells to discard them already. You can keep Jar in a budget Dark World Deck without a problem, but keep in mind that giving your opponent 5 cards is not forcing them to "rethink" their strategy unless they lost a full hand. If I ran into a Morphing Jar with my Galaxy Deck, I'd be thrilled because that Deck struggles with draw power and getting 5 new cards is almost sure to open up more combos.
 
The later in the game it is, the more Morphing Jar is going to hurt you.

I know that Morphing Jar hurts later in the game from experience.
*sigh*
Where do I find cheap Dragged Downs?
I'm willing to tech in the damn things.

[evilfusion]

I decided to look up prices on Upstart and Dragged Down on the site I usually use.

 

Holy hell. Those are too expensive for my taste. They're like $3 apiece. For commons! I wouldn't want to spend $10 for a playset of commons that only one Deck can use effectively. And they're sold out on Upstarts except the ones that are $5 apiece.