So I heard Thunder Family/Hunders topped a tournament

[Blake]

Alright, so where do I start... First off, I don't care that Dave Trepanier did well with Hunders at ARG Montreal. It doesn't mean shit. It means he played Anti-Meta Backrow and used Hunders as an engine. Machina-Karakuri, Constellars, and more have done the same. It's just format hate that just happens to have Hunders as a face.

 

So, why did I choose to make this topic?

 

Well, let's cover Sishunder first: Because it's not a good card. At least not right now. It's slow and only really works on turns where you're not making plays. It's only good turn 2-4 or so, it's only really good for getting back Sea Horse who shouldn't be run at 3 anyways, and it's basically dead in the late game when you're trying to explode. It's just not worth the space for a slow +0 Xyz that's generally not even going to do anything efficient unless you get Sea Horse. And if you're playing in a way that you need Sea Horse that much, you're playing it wrong.

 

Honestly, you should only be running 2 Thunder Sea Horse. Win button that it can be, it's a common dead draw past turn 1. Even turn 1, there's often a better play than just dumping it.zYou don't really have a way to use it efficiently past then, and I often find myself uing it as a late game partner for Ma/Pa to make an Xyz. It's good early and horrible later. You should only be running 3 sets of targets for it, anyways, so running 3 is pushing the chance it's live anyways. It's not even truly comparable to RotA, given how you're giving up SSing for the turn, and thus likely giving up making plays unless you're already set up.

 

I will give it that it's a good card after you're set up with a decent size Xyz or Synchro, but more than a single copy at that point's totally winmoar.

 

Vylon Prism's a bad card in Hunders, too. Sure, it gets you a powerful Level 8 Synchro, but it has the same issue as sis: It's a show stopper. You're giving up the ability to be more flexible and make better, often extended plays to make a Synchro with Vylon Prism. Yes, it's a beefy synchro, but this does not change that it's the worst dead draw in the deck. Unless you have a Ma or Pa, it's totally fucking dead. It can't mak plays based on your Grave, which sis at least has the luxury of being able to do, it doesn't really make bad hands better, and overall just increases the deck's dependance on Thunder Sea Horse. 

 

It's a technical +0 Synchro, but it's not worth it just for the +1 to be in the form of +1000 ATK. That's a really, really weak +1 to redeem the cost of the summon. It also eats up a Ma or Pa that coulda been saved for later. You give up 2 cards in hand advantage for 1 beater. Not really worth it, even on paper, is it?

 

If the advantage preservation that Sis offers is something people prize, then Batteryman AAA is easily better at it. Oh wow, so much weaker than a 900/600 that does basically the same thing in a much easier to set up and abuse package. Unlike sis who halts your plays for her slow +1, he gives you an immediate +1 in the form of another of itself from the grave. Once you get 1 AAA in grave, you can coast on it the whole game nine out of ten. If you don't open Ma/Pa/Sea Horse, but have 2 of this guy, you can still make plays. Open Sea Horse? Search 2 trips, set 1. If they leave the set battery alone, you can make massive plays off of it depending on what else you have in hand (Third Battery, Ma or Pa, Kagetokage, etc.). If they hit it, you can simply shrug and make your +0 Xyz the next turn anyways. It's not like you took a neg, as the battery you set was a +1 from Sea Horse anyways.

 

And the fact that it requires set up is no worse than Sis, as sis grabbing Ma/Pa back from the grave is also dependent on set up, except hand setup instead of grave. Grave setup is generally more simple with cards like Foolish and Lavalval Chain, except this also has the same benefit of set up from Sea Horse that Sis has.

 

What does Sis do without a Ma, Pa, or Kagetokage (Which isn't even run in the Sis-Prism variant)? Nothing. She sits there and looks pretty. She's totally dead. And so does Vylon Prism. Sis + Prism is the absolute worst, because it says you can't do shit. So, next up is the replacement for Prism.

 

Masked Chameleon is better because of the fact that it doesn't eat up your hand, is searchable without needing to waste a turn grabbing 2 off of Sea Horse, fits in an engine with Kagetokage and King of the Feral Imps, and works with AAA. It also makes Photon Thrasher more powerful in the deck as a way to help improve plays (Again, not played in the Sis-Prism build to my knowledge), and Thrasher just asserts itself even more as a solid choice once Legacy of the Valiant comes over to the TCG, when Bujintei Tsukuyomi gives the deck a new tool.

 

Now, I will admit that Masked Chameleon's certainly a "play stopper" akin to Prism, but it has a couple strengths over prism. First off is that it's an actual +0 Synchro or Xyz. Either one, to boot, instead of just Synchro with a +0 in only the most technical sense of the term. It requires a little grave set up, but you run 5 cards that are targets for it, and it's generally live past turn 1. It's even live T1 if you open it and Foolish Burial, though that is on a -1. It gives you a Level 8 Synchro at its base power, no +1000, but you didn't waste a Ma/Pa/Thrasher on making it, instead preserving them for future plays.

 

Both Sishunder and Vylon Prism give situational plus 0s that are not guaranteed to get you anywhere, much less be good when you need them to be. They just are not efficient enough at what they do, and there are better cards to use in the same deck they are. I've tried both ways multiple times, and Sis/Prism is just too slow to start without a Sea Horse and simply does not have the same power the AAA/Chameleon build does, which caters to the idea of getting an easier start and setup. So please, don't just run the deck because it topped. As with all decks that do this, it's not necessarily the optimal build. For an obvious example? Madolche.

 

Only an article because I don't feel like making a full fledged deck discussion and going over everything, but wanted to cover how Sis and Prism are inferior. You can run Kagetokage and Photon thrasher in the Sis-Prism build, I'm sure, but Kagetokage conflicts with Prism somewhat, and Thrasher's less useful due to the lack of Chameleon. Thrasher's definitely usable though, especially once LVAL comes to the TCG.

 

As a final note, I will acknowledge that Prism is strong vs. Dragons, which made sense for him running it. I will, however, maintain that sis is inferior to Trips in almost every way. This topic is in the more general sense of the deck, and is mostly to note that, post-Drags, SisPris isn't good.

[Goose]

Do you have a sample decklist I could test out?

[Blake]

Do you have a sample decklist I could test out?

[spoiler=TCG]

Photon Thrasher x2

Thunder Sea Horse x2

Masked Chameleon x2

Mahunder x2-3

Pahunder x2

Kagetokage x2-3

Batteryman AAA x3

Reinforcement of the Army x1

One Day of Peace x0-1

Dark Hole x1

Upstart Goblin x3

Foolish Burial x1

Pot of Duality x2

Recycling Batteries x2-3

Mystical Space Typhoon x2-3

Forbidden Lance x0-2

Book of Moon x1

Sixth Sense x1

Xyz Reborn x0-1

Mirror Force x0-2

Bottomless Trap Hole x1

Torrential Tribute x1

Trap Stun x0-2

Breakthrough Skill x2

Compulsory Evacuation Device x1

Solemn Warning x1

 

Colossal Fighter x0-1

Crimson Blader x1

Thought Ruler Archfiend x0-1

Stardust Spark Dragon x1

Evilswarm Ouroboros x1

Number 104: Masquerade x1

Number 91: Thunder Spark Dragon x1

Constellar Omega x1

King of the Feral Imps x1

Number 50: Blackship of Corn x0-1

Photon Papilloperative x0-1

Diamond Dire Wolf x1

Starliege Paladynamo x1-2

Maestroke the Symphony Djinn x1

Lavalval Chain x1

Daigusto Emeral x0-1

Abyss Dweller x1

Gagaga Cowboy x1

[/spoiler]

 

[spoiler=Online, TCG List]

Photon Thrasher x2

Thunder Sea Horse x2

Masked Chameleon x2

Mahunder x2-3

Pahunder x2

Kagetokage x2-3

Batteryman AAA x3

Reinforcement of the Army x1

One Day of Peace x0-1

Dark Hole x1

Upstart Goblin x3

Foolish Burial x1

Pot of Duality x2

Recycling Batteries x3

Mystical Space Typhoon x2-3

Forbidden Lance x0-2

Book of Moon x1

Sixth Sense x1

Xyz Reborn x0-1

Mirror Force x0-2

Bottomless Trap Hole x1

Torrential Tribute x1

Trap Stun x0-2

Breakthrough Skill x2

Compulsory Evacuation Device x1

Solemn Warning x1

 

 

Jeweled Red Dragon Archfiend x1

Crimson Blader x1

Colossal Fighter x0-1

Stardust Dragon x0-1

Stardust Spark Dragon x1

Evilswarm Ouroboros x1

Number 104: Masquerade x1

Constellar Omega x1

King of the Feral Imps x1

Number 101: Silent Honors Ark Knight x1

Diamond Dire Wolf x1

Starliege Paladynamo x1

Number 106: Giant Hand x0-1

Evilswarm Exciton Knight x1

Bujintei Tsukuyomi x1

Maestroke the Symphony Djinn x0-1

Lavalval Chain x1

Abyss Dweller x0-1

Daigusto Emeral x0-1

Gagaga Cowboy x1

[/spoiler]

 

Example of Sis-Prism:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xWGRs47Q1Z4