Cardmakers' Cabal [CCGs/Cardmaking/Card Design]

[Sora1499]

I vote TCG. We'd have to recreate a shitload of staples otherwise.

[Maeriberii Haan]

The concept of staples itself is interesting. They are basically all-around good cards that can(and should be) splashed into any deck. I'd say that removing staples from equation can diversify what cards can be made, and promotes better deck building.

[Therrion]

You put OCG as opposed to CCG, but it's understandable.

CCG would give us the freedom to make archetypes without having to give them opportunities for massive Card Advantage in unfair ways. Also, it would allow us to balance mechanics. Instead of an Xyz Metagame, Fusion and Ritual could contend with Xyz options and etc.

We could also put generic Spells/Traps in there to help round out the set.

Set 2, the clans conflicts, could also allow us to make checks and balances to archetypes that were stronger than the others, etc.

 

____

I think some staples should exist, but we can cross that bridge when we get to it.

 

[spoiler= Monster Reborn]

Special Summon 1 monster from your Graveyard. It cannot attack this turn, or be used as material.

[/spoiler]

[spoiler= Dark Hole] Discard 1 card: Destroy all face-up monsters on the field.

[/spoiler]

[spoiler= MST] Activate only if your opponent has 3 or more cards in their Spell/Trap Card Zone: Destroy 1 Spell/Trap Card they control.

[/spoiler]

Simple enough, right?

[Aix]

lol woops.

[Maeriberii Haan]

Therrion, imo rather than MST, something like Dust Tornado should exist instead. That version of MST is too prone to dead hands. Dust is slower, while achieving the same thing. But if we can figure some other alternative rather than slapping some conditions to an existing card, that'll be interesting. 

[宇佐見 蓮子@C94]

Voting for TCG cause making a whole new format just isn't my style. 

[Sora1499]

[quote name="TOYOのこころ" post="6285347" timestamp="1381275676"]Voting for TCG cause making a whole new format just isn't my style. [/quote] Yay~ Also, TCG allows us to take into account other pre-existing cards that would support our archetypes.

[Therrion]

I agree, but the power creep in the real game got out of hand.

I mean, even if TCG, we could make the Decks not completely out of hand/underpowered by TCG standards. The only issue with that is the Ritual archetype is, by default, a horrible clan and shouldn't exist due to how bad the Ritual Mechanic is unless we give it crazy ass support.

[Sora1499]

If we were to do TCG, we wouldn't necessarily have to carry over the TCG level of brokenness: we could just establish our own principle of power and only borrow TCG cards. That's what I think we should do.

[Maeriberii Haan]

 

We keep TCG staples, support, etc relevant, but not the decks and archetypes. No such thing as Dragon Ruler, Prophecy, or any other top dogs. We can redefine the metagame's speed somewhat without those decks to mind. 

[Delibirb]

Yeah, I like the idea of changing the TCG to create a new format, but not writing one from scratch. I think if we do that, we can make the ritual archetype worthy of seeing play without being gishki 2.0. Moreover, as you said, bring back fusions etc. as contenders against Xyzs without having to redefine what it means to fuse, simply by making support cards for these lost mechanics.

[Therrion]

So, we keep Staples/Attribute/Type Support, but not archetypes...?

We are eventually posting this. It'd be weird to be like

"Here is our Set! Now, before viewing, erase all knowledge about everything besides staples/attribute support/type support. Now view it."

I mean, I get what you're saying, but it doesn't seem like it would work. None the less, my concerns are mostly with the Ritual clan sucking if we don't make them absurd.

 

TCG: We can make weak archetypes. Alternatively, we are forced to break the archetypes that use the weaker mechanics such as Fusion/Ritual to the point where the cards generate so much advantage that the minuses brought about by the mechanic are canceled out, which leads to bad card design seen in archetypes like Gishki, which currently have 2 cards limited (Fusion is easier to remedy via Contact Fusion, but Ritual is touchy). Xyz and Synchro archetype, now assumed to be EARTH/WIND, would be the more competitive ones by default, and would probably be brought down to kind of match up with the weaker archetypes (I would assume, since I think we should make the archetypes in the set equal as we can). tl;dr Make overpowered archetypes or trash ones, the distance between playable and broke is quite a trench.

CCG: We can remake the required cards or the cards we would like to see with our set in our set, and disregard all the power creeping Konami has done over the years. We can make the mechanics (Ritual, Fusion, Tributing, Synchro, Xyz) all balanced to the extent they need to be. While this takes more work, it isn't much, and really I would participate in a small group whose purpose is to recreate the staples to an appropriate level as well as all current Attribute/Type support that is worth applying to archetypes (again, making them balanced to the set). This also gives us a blank canvas to go nuts on, as we can literally do anything with our archetypes. The set would be made with a fun environment in mind as opposed to a flavorful, over competitive format. Even mediocre cards could get love.

 

EDIT

Proposing an idea. Perhaps we should have teams work together once we draw up what each clan should be doing, those teams will work at their own pace and come to an agreement, and present the clan to the club for criticism/balancing etc.

How does that sound? We would have constant updates from each team. We could work 2 clans at a time so we have a good amount of people in each discussion.

[Maeriberii Haan]

Starting fresh also means that silly past support thingies like Sarcophagus/Rejuvenation doesn't happen. Contact Fusion have too much similarity to Xyz/Synchro, and Fusion's former shtick is that they use a fusion spell card, but sadly, that's the only way a fusion based deck can compete without being mechanically broken(due to absurd consistency needed to pull viable traditional fusion in the first place). Rituals are pretty much the same as above, either they get broken, or irrelevant. I'll be fine if we go by TCG, but starting fresh have it's own juicy benefits. Someone should list the pros and cons.

[SunKistRebelution]

My vote has been cast. CCG will allow us to work on our design capabilities in the best, most balanced way, IMHO. I also like the clan by committee idea. Also, just a fun thought: CCG could also stand for "Cardmaker's Cabal Game". It is as if it was meant to be.

[Therrion]

TCG

 

Pros

Already know what cards will support our archetypes and can make cards accordingly.

Already have set guidelines as to how absurd our cards need to be to be playable/not playable.

People without much time won't be required to spend a few minutes looking at redone staples to get a different grasp on the desired power level of cards.

Less thinking involved, which is good for some.

Cons

Underwhelming mechanics will remain as such, unless designed horridly.

Cards are limited in what they can do, since only effects that generate advantage are deemed playable. You either draw, banish, destroy, search, or Special Summon. Otherwise, you better combo.

You are throwing your cards into a Trap Heavy format, most likely making card makers stubborn and slapping protection on much of the big things they make, since that is what is needed to be good.

 

CCG

 

Pros

You are entering the format of a blank canvas. Power levels are defined by you.

Staples can be remade/replaced with more balanced versions to have a fun, diverse environment while still letting decks run.

The chance to balance the options of the mechanics makes for a overall more balanced meta game without need to horribly design cards for a lacking mechanic.

You are given the opportunity to fix an archetype in a later set, since all cards in existence relating to the archetype are controlled by you.

 

Cons

You are making archetypes without prior knowledge to how good they will be or how bad they will suck.

You have to learn more cards, as opposed to see a card and call from memory cards in the TCG that interact with it.

 

_________________________

Tell me if I missed anything and I can edit and add it into there. It may seem as if there is bias, there isn't. While I prefer CCG, I don't necessarily mind it enough to be bias.

[SunKistRebelution]

Okay, I would like to give credit to kanokarob for partially inspiring this idea for the EARTH clan, as well as Therrion. Unfortunately, this is all off the top of my head, so I only have written outlines, but I still would love some feedback on them, whether it's how to better balance them, get rid of them altogether, or improve the card grammar.

 

[spoiler: SKReb's EARTH clan idea]

Frankenstone Golem
Rock/Effect/Earth
2/800/800
-You may Special Summon this card (from your Graveyard) by paying 500 Life Points, and if you do, double this card's original ATK; this card is destroyed during the End Phase of the turn it was summoned by this effect.

Frankenstone Hex
Rock/Effect/Earth
2/700/900
-You may Special Summon this card (from your Graveyard) by paying 500 Life Points, and if you do, this card can attack directly; this card is destroyed during the End Phase of the turn it was summoned by this effect.

Frankenstone Idol
Rock/Effect/Earth
2/600/1000
-You may Special Summon this card (from your Graveyard) by paying 500 Life Points, and if you do, double this card's original DEF; this card is destroyed during the End Phase of the turn it was summoned by this effect.

Frankenstone F. Kaiser
Rock/Effect/Earth
5/2000/1700
-Your opponent cannot activate Trap cards in response to this card's attack. You may Special Summon this card (from your Graveyard) by Tributing 1 EARTH monster you control, and if you do, this card gains 500 ATK; this card is destroyed during the End Phase of the turn it was summoned by this effect.

Frankenstone F. Legend
Rock/Effect/Earth
5/1900/1800
-Negate the effects of Effect Monsters this card battles. You may Special Summon this card (from your Graveyard) by Tributing 1 EARTH monster you control, and if you do, this card gains 500 ATK; this card is destroyed during the End Phase of the turn it was summoned by this effect.

Frankenstone F.S. Marquis
Rock/Effect/Earth
8/2700/2100
-When this card inflicts battle damage to your opponent, it can attack again once in a row. You may Special Summon this card (from the Graveyard) by Tributing at least 2 "Frankenstone" monsters you control, and if you do, increase this card's ATK by 300 for each monster Tributed; this card is destroyed during the End Phase of the turn it was summoned by this effect.

[/spoiler]

[Maeriberii Haan]

Ehh, I don't know. With the right set-up, they can swarm the field really fast with rank 2-5 xyzs really fast with no other cost other than your LP.

[Kyng's Old Account]

I'm confused as to how we'd create a CCG. Could someone elaborate on this?

[Aix]

Sunkist, unlimited Rank 2 and Tribute fodder is OPed.

Kyng, we completely ignore preexisting cards, that's how.

[Therrion]

The concept of LP is decent, but there would need to be a decent amount of balancing. Also, the name is horrid.

[Aix]

And, le wut?

Has this Tribea made an application that I'm unaware of?

[Maeriberii Haan]

Iirc, yes.

EDIT: after looking in the thread, I don't find his application, so yeah.

[Mehmani]

I worked in a CCG for about two years before getting kicked out for pissing everyone off, but the reason I stayed around so long was that building a whole format from the bottom up was so much fun. It gave me the same kick I got when I first started playing Yugioh as a kid - I knew literally every card and every deck. It gives you a great deal more control, as every single card is submitted and vetted.

[Maeriberii Haan]

Yes, Karkuk is right. Having an actual control to the metagame so it doesn't get too out of hand is really great. But that really depends on whether the submissions are actually reviewed and regulated. Last CCG I'm participating almost fell into a deep powercreep hole due to some cards got overlooked by the higher-ups. TCG actually have less problem with this, since we actually have a preset power level bar. We need to define the bar when we do a CCG, and we need to see cards compared to the bar we made, not the TCG bar.

[SunKistRebelution]

Apologies for my last post. I don't remember posting it, probably because I was on sleeping pills at the time it was posted.. Really, Therrion? I liked the name when I read it a few minutes ago. That said, they are far too easily swarmable from the grave. The cards would need some serious redoing to even be considerable. Darn you, sleepy SKReb!