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Phantom Roxas

By Phantom Roxas
in Video Games

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Progenitor Newbie

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Good lord is Cloud super predictable online.  It's easy to read what he does before he even does it.

 

And that my friend is a programmed weakness.  Cloud has so many fast and powerful options that it can be really easy to find yourself in a rut.  Remaining unpredictable through the whole match and not falling into that rut can be a bit difficult, but with how shitty his recovery is (lets face it he's basically little mac with a sword and no super armor when he doesn't have a limit break up) you need to mix up everything you do so that you don't get read and subsequently gimped.

 

On a side note though, I found that Cloud's F-Tilt doesn't have a weak or sour spot, so every point on the blade does 11%.  That made testing a lot easier, and found that F-Tilt locks the opponent on a missed tech from <= 12%.  I have not found a good way to set this up though.  Cloud's only move at such a low percent that puts the opponent into tumble is Jab 3, but he has so much lag that it's impossible to run over and actually hit them with F-Tilt within that 22 frame window.  Cloud also can't pull a little mac and simply use Throws to plop people perfectly on top of Battlefield Platforms for a situation that is nearly untechable.  I haven't tested it, but maybe Up-Tilt has enough knockback at low percents to do this? Or down tilt?  I need to test more.

 

HOWEVER, I did find ONE, very conditional setup.  If you are amazing at the game, Cloud's F-Tilt at 0% to 1% can make the opponent slide off Battlefield and other platforms.  When you do, that special falling animation that triggers when you slide off ledge is untechable, and so you can fall off the platform and, if you were fast enough, hit them with F-Tilt after the first bounce.  Like I said that isn't easy and it's extremely conditional, but if utilized correctly you should be able to convert a massive amount of damage from that lock.

 

Using that same method, I have tested most of his moves and have yet to find one that locks.  I have NOT tested weak hits however, as Cloud doesn't really have them.  For example, Blade Beam loses about 2% damage at the end of it's flight path, so perhaps if you are far enough that can lock?  I dunno.  But I can confirm that none of his aerials lock, including actually getting the spike sweetspot for his Dair and Fair (which usually do lock at low percents for other spikes), and the only locking tilt is F-Tilt.  Cross Slash takes the opponent out of tumble so it can't possibly lock, and Climhazzard picks them up off the ground so that can't work either.  Strong hit of Blade Beam also does not lock.  I have not tested Finishing Touch.  Since it only does 1% and very low knockback when at 0, it's actually quite possible it does lock.  However IMO that seems like a very impractical use of the move, so don't count on it.  I have a few more ideas though.

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Lonk Newbie

Lonk

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And that my friend is a programmed weakness.  Cloud has so many fast and powerful options that it can be really easy to find yourself in a rut.  Remaining unpredictable through the whole match and not falling into that rut can be a bit difficult, but with how shitty his recovery is (lets face it he's basically little mac with a sword and no super armor when he doesn't have a limit break up) you need to mix up everything you do so that you don't get read and subsequently gimped.

 

His Limit Break doesn't exactly help with his weakness either.  With it active, he practically loses access to all of his specials due to needing to save the Limit Break for the right time.  If he doesn't get the best use out of the Limit Break, then he is left very vulnerable for a punish.  The fact that he is also heavily reliant on keeping up his Limit Break hurts as well.

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Lonk Newbie

Lonk

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So.... You guys are just now realizing that Cloud is gimmicky, when I've already mentioned it earlier?

 

Also, no, he's not Mac with a sword. He's a Mac who thinks he is Lucario :^)

 

I only played once online today with Shulk, expecting someone to play Cloud.  I 2-0'd the person twice because he was being real gimmicky and failing every time.

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Progenitor Newbie

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Everyone forgets that shulk is by no means invincible during Vision.  It's just the slowdown is normally long enough for the animation to finish before he can actually be hit.  An even funnier one is that Ryu can True Shoryuken in the middle of vision by canceling one of his tilts.  The way slowdown works in Smash 4 doesn't just slow the character.  It slows everything.  Therefore True Shoryuken's frame 1 invincibility becomes active for 4-5 frames, and shulk gets bopped.

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Airride Newbie

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I don't even buy that. Duck Hunt, Wario and G&W to a lesser degree all fill that role better. Only the retro ones work because Sakurai likes his throw back characters and they DO have a place in the roster and Wario IS a stooge character. Jig's Down-B is also one of her better moves, and her recovery is one of the best so a bad Up-B isn't really an issue.

See, all of those are weird choices FOR characters, but their moves are generally pretty standard (Aside from GW's Side B, but whatever). Jiggly has among the weirdest physics of the game, dies crazy early, a non-recovery Up-B (Literally every character besides her has an Up-B that can be used to recover in soem capacity), and One of the strangest moves in Rest (How does going to sleep kill you? WHY does going to sleep kill so easily? Why does it work?) In terms of function it's pretty normal, but the fact of it being sleeping that is so damaging is very...strange. Same can be said for Luigi, but His Up-B at least recovers, and his Side-B is like GW's in that it's random but still usable sometimes.

Jiggly just isn't a character that seems good at first glance. She seems like a joke choice. But once you master her, she isn't honestly too terrible (Well, not in metagame, but she's still usable at worst, but the fact of her strangeness  makes her hard to start using unless you already know her gimmick of being 90% air-based)

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Flame Dragon Enthusiast

Flame Dragon

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See, all of those are weird choices FOR characters, but their moves are generally pretty standard (Aside from GW's Side B, but whatever). Jiggly has among the weirdest physics of the game, dies crazy early, a non-recovery Up-B (Literally every character besides her has an Up-B that can be used to recover in soem capacity), and One of the strangest moves in Rest (How does going to sleep kill you? WHY does going to sleep kill so easily? Why does it work?) In terms of function it's pretty normal, but the fact of it being sleeping that is so damaging is very...strange. Same can be said for Luigi, but His Up-B at least recovers, and his Side-B is like GW's in that it's random but still usable sometimes.

Jiggly just isn't a character that seems good at first glance. She seems like a joke choice. But once you master her, she isn't honestly too terrible (Well, not in metagame, but she's still usable at worst, but the fact of her strangeness  makes her hard to start using unless you already know her gimmick of being 90% air-based)

Yeas, but those characters are all comical in execution. When I think "joke fighter" I think Dan and Wario is the closest to that in Smash, not Jigs. I mean hell, you bring up Jig's physics, but Wario is just as weird.

 

Yes, aspects of Jig's move set are weird, but I wouldn't call her a joke character. Remember, she didn't get in as a joke originally. She is in smash 1 because at the time she WAS one of the most popular Pokemon.

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LordCowCowCowCowCowCowCowCow Experienced

LordCowCowCowCowCowCowCowCow

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Now for fun I am gonna write some stuff.

Imma list the most logical choice for each US released Fire Emblem game for Smash imo. Going off the idea of popularity, relevance, and varied move possibilities.

 

FE 7: Hector. He seems to be the favorite overall, due to Eli being suckage and Lyn being another sword fighter. He was one of the three Lords, and he could be a great power hitter. Axe is not in the game at all.

 

FE 8: Ephraim/Erika. Here's the tricky thing. You'll see most the list is males. I see Ephraim as the more logical one (due to being about same level of popularity and relevance) he gets Lance, which is unique. However Eirika's fencing is a possible different moveset than many sword users. Plus yay female representation.

 

FE 9: Ike. This one was correct. I mean, come on, he's super popular even if...no not going into that. He kinda HAS to be the FE 9 rep at this point.

 

FE 10: Zelgius/Micaiah. Ahhh more split because of female representation. Micky isn't super popular, but she is, but she isn't. Kinda that character that people hate because of poor writing but others still are fond of. Plus a major character. And hey, magic user, nice right? Zelgius could be a contender for this, though. Due to the fact that *spoilers* and *spoilers* er...let's just say he's one of the most important non...uhhh *spoilers* sheet. Trust me on this.

 

FE 11: Marth. Obvious.

 

FE 13: Robin. Cause of main character, well liked, and dat unique movepool yo.

 

Now for the ones I'd like just for fun, even though unlikely.

 

FE 7: Hector. See above.

FE 8: Ephraim. See above.

FE 9: Mia. Fast sword user, just overall a fun character. Let the fanboys fanboy dammit.

FE 10: Zelgius. See above. Er. See nothing I guess. *spoilers*

FE 11: Michalis. idk how, just do it. Get the Wyvern in there too, screw the rules.

FE 13: Anna. Cause you all know why.

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Lonk Newbie

Lonk

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But it's the fact how people wanted characters like Megaman/Cloud/etc, for like, ever.

Bayonetta/Corrin kinda' sorta' came out of nowhere.

 

Corrin came out of nowhere.  Smash fans pestered Kamiya and Sakurai for Bayonetta's inclusion for forever, and Kamiya pretty much took a huge steaming dump on those people by calling them idiots and asking for them to stop asking for Bayonetta in Smash.

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~British Soul~ Veteran

~British Soul~

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I have to agree, none of us expected Corrin, it's just another instance of Sakurai tossing a curveball at us.

 

On another (albeit irrelevant) note, was randomly discussing the upcoming pokemon TCG expansion with a friend (because the pack art was revealed) and I said to him "I am fully aware that this will NOT happen, but wouldn't it haven been cool if Nintendo were to release a Gold Greninja amiibo to coincide with the English release of BREAKpoint because of Greninja BREAK."

 

I know it's not directly smash related, but still.

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ÆƵ– Newbie

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Alrighty well I just got back from a fun night out with a sheet-ton of other people and smash was 90% of what happened. Because there was a wii u, I did the thing with my 3DS. Unfortunately for me, I didn't know that my custom button settings (x/a jump, b physical, y special, up-tap jump disabled) wouldn't transfer until after the first round. I still held my own against a cloud and other peeps in 8-player, but it was suffering. 

 

So, anyone else here have different button configurations?

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Progenitor Newbie

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Cloud has some really interesting options. Full Hop Dair auto cancels on landing if you input Dair as you rise, which means it can true combo into a wide variety of things at their respective kill percents, such as Fair Spike, Nair, Up Air, Limit Break Cross Slash, Finishing Touch, etc.

 

It's really hard to actually find a way to use this tech though, since FH Dair can be seen from a mile away. Currently I'm using Jab 3 to set up tech chase situations, and trying to read their options with FH Dair. It's still not easy though, yet it can easily take a stock in the right situations.

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