Super Smash Bros. 3DS/Wii U

[Agro]

Sorry. Konami is too busy beating off to Pachinko machines to be bothered with something like what their fans want.

only because they dont think making games is a profitable expenditure anymore. They'll gladly take licensing deals that stengthens their brand at no cost to them.

[The banterbus is in town]

So I can reliably beat Fox with Zelda, but Falcon is a nightmare. What can I do to stop him from just full on rushing me? If I throw out a jab/dtilt/up tilt, its usually met with a shield, into a dash grab. His speed is so irritating. If I whiff a single attack I get combo'd relentlessly. Is there any safe option I can use to deny his approach, or do I just have to try and grab him every approach?

"Why can't my low tier beat this high tier?" - Zelda is sheet mate. Stop using her. Accept the fact that some characters are better than others and it becomes easier. Zelda has a tough time against Falcon because she's floaty and he can keep her in the air forever using UAir and NAir. Zelda's attacks are really easy to whiff and Falcon is literally punish and rushdown the character. If you know he's going to run up and shield, grab. Grab in this game is busted since you should be getting at least 20% off it. Falcon is a fast faller so he's combo bait for everyone. Excluding Zelda. Zelda's best kill option is her Elevator oos and considering Falcon has an time against moves that send upwards, you'll need to get them to higher percents.

 

tl;dr pick a character that isn't arguably bottom of the tier list.

[Jake the Sage]

only because they dont think making games is a profitable expenditure anymore. They'll gladly take licensing deals that stengthens their brand at no cost to them.

 

Oh please, Konami has practically shut down ALL of their AAA games save for FIFA. I doubt even if Nintendo went and asked if they could use a character from one of their IPs they'd bother to answer.

 

tl;dr pick a character that isn't arguably bottom of the tier list.

 

Or be a man, practice a lot, and prove them wrong.

[Progenitor]

tl;dr pick a character that isn't arguably bottom of the tier list.

 

Pretty sure Zelda and Doctor Mario are/were regarded in the same tier.

 

But that's irrelevant right?  Not like a Doc player 3-0ed the best Pikachu (a character whom I believe is #2 right after sheik) in the world or something....

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fQdLKB9QBik

 

oh wait.

 

Smash 4 is the most balanced game I've ever played with a roster this size.  Sure there are distinct characters who are pretty dominant, but this isn't melee.  Even D tier can still do stuff in this game.  Sure they have a harder time of it, but that's what separates the good players from the rest.  Anyone can pick up sheik and do fairly well.  It takes real skill to continue to do well against the unexpected low tiers instead of just learning the sheik mirror.  You can say Zelda is bad all you want, but the facts are she has roughly 6-7 moves that can kill between 70-100% stage dependent.  If you go in thinking "It's just a Zelda" ur gonna get funking bodied.

[Toffee.]

tl;dr pick a character that isn't arguably bottom of the tier list.

Unless you are a scrublord. In which case, you opt for either Mac or Ness :^)

[King K. Azo]

Unless you are a scrublord. In which case, you opt for either Mac or Ness :^)

Mac is not a scrub character! Dear lord, why do people say that?!

[Toffee.]

Mac is not a scrub-

That's the joke.

 

'Course, he does have the highest number of losses online- Ironically, I can't find the source for that at the moment.

[Progenitor]

90% of for glory macs have no idea what the actual funk Super Armor is.  10% of that 90% don't know what "combos" are.  The other 10% of people that actually know what they are doing will style on you if you keep that attitude.  Take it from a guy in that 10% ::

[Agro]

Oh please, Konami has practically shut down ALL of their AAA games save for FIFA. I doubt even if Nintendo went and asked if they could use a character from one of their IPs they'd bother to answer.

See the problem is that your first premise is exactly what I said. They shut down their AAA games except PES because nothing else was making money and they didn't want to keep wasting it.

 

And it's obvious that they still value the idea of their IPs, else they wouldn't use them as themes for their pachinko machines.

[Astro Dude]

I kinda want Shantae in. Cause she's cool. And she needs more recognition.

[~British Soul~]

If Shantae did make it in, it probs would give her more recognition. Not gonna lie, I hadn't even heard of her until like last month with the hints about the next reveal.

[Agro]

So there's a tournament happening this weekend that you should all watch. Because I'll be there or something.

 

 

Oh, and I made this trailer.

[Jake the Sage]

See the problem is that your first premise is exactly what I said. They shut down their AAA games except PES because nothing else was making money and they didn't want to keep wasting it.

 

And it's obvious that they still value the idea of their IPs, else they wouldn't use them as themes for their pachinko machines.

 

Yeah, because Metal Gear Solid V didn't sell through the roof. Yeah, because the hype for Silent Hills wasn't insane.

 

Konami was loosing money with games because they stopped caring about putting actual work into it or did things that pissed people off- removing parts of games only to later release it as DLC.

 

I'll give them this, they aren't complete idiots, that's why they're still using IPs they THINK will get people to buy the pachinko machines.

 

But this can go back and forth for a while. I doubt either of us will bring any actual research to this for whatever reason, my reason is I'm going to be lazy about it- so let's just drop it. M'Kay?

 

---

 

I kinda want Shantae in. Cause she's cool. And she needs more recognition.

 

I would like to have her and Shovel Knight in because they'd both have very unique and specialized move sets like Megaman has.

[Agro]

Yeah, because Metal Gear Solid V didn't sell through the roof. Yeah, because the hype for Silent Hills wasn't insane.

 

Konami was loosing money with games because they stopped caring about putting actual work into it or did things that pissed people off- removing parts of games only to later release it as DLC.

 

I'll give them this, they aren't complete idiots, that's why they're still using IPs they THINK will get people to buy the pachinko machines.

 

But this can go back and forth for a while. I doubt either of us will bring any actual research to this for whatever reason, my reason is I'm going to be lazy about it- so let's just drop it. M'Kay?

I'll drop it when the facts behind the business decision are clearly laid out.

 

MGSV sold through the roof, yes, but it was also only sold for $60, which is a price that many analysts predicted the new generation wouldn't maintain due to the rising cost of game production. That's a problem when a game like MGSV continues to require a bigger and bigger budget. Kojima overshot that budget by a long shot, like he does with every game, and at a certain point, Konami's board decided that enough was enough and began cutting ties with him– just wanting to get some sort of money back on the game and making sure he did not repeat the process that had lost them money with Silent Hills.

 

You can complain about the problem being that they didn't make what fans wanted, but when what fans want costs as much as it does and the majority of your business, pachinko machines, is actually profitable, it doesn't make much business sense to keep supporting a division that's constantly in the red.

[The banterbus is in town]

Pretty sure Zelda and Doctor Mario are/were regarded in the same tier.

 

But that's irrelevant right?  Not like a Doc player 3-0ed the best Pikachu (a character whom I believe is #2 right after sheik) in the world or something....

 

 moves that can kill between 70-100% stage dependent.  If you go in thinking "It's just a Zelda" ur gonna get f***ing bodied.

Difference being is that Doc is under-explored. Doc's frame data wasn't horrendous and no one played him. I can 100% go in thinking "it's just a Zelda" since she is a BAD character. Seriously. Doc done well because of who piloted him. M2K with his Roy and Pichu would funk up a lot of people in Melee. Not because the character is good, but the player. Why do you all think Nairo doesn't play Zelda in tourney anymore? She is just plain bad. I will go into a match thinking "oh, this player is a low tier scrub since I don't know them. Free as funk".

 

 

er to answer.

 

 

Or be a man, practice a lot, and prove them wrong.

Or I can play a higher tier character, win, and sheet on low-tier scrubs for as long as they think they're "special". Why would you go into a competitive environment and not want to win?

 

If you main a low-tier and use the phrase "oh, he's low tier, I should lose" but when you win you gloat like crazy, you're an actual scrublord.

[vla1ne]

Difference being is that Doc is under-explored. Doc's frame data wasn't horrendous and no one played him. I can 100% go in thinking "it's just a Zelda" since she is a BAD character. Seriously. Doc done well because of who piloted him. M2K with his Roy and Pichu would f*** up a lot of people in Melee. Not because the character is good, but the player. Why do you all think Nairo doesn't play Zelda in tourney anymore? She is just plain bad. I will go into a match thinking "oh, this player is a low tier scrub since I don't know them. Free as f***".

 

 

Or I can play a higher tier character, win, and s*** on low-tier scrubs for as long as they think they're "special". Why would you go into a competitive environment and not want to win?

 

If you main a low-tier and use the phrase "oh, he's low tier, I should lose" but when you win you gloat like crazy, you're an actual scrublord.

 

what makes you think you have any valid reason to s*** on lower tier players? what makes you think people with lower tier characters think they're special? I use some lower tier characters because i like the way they move, and i can adjust to them better. marth in this game is significantly worse than he was in either prior game, but i still use him because i like his playstyle, i don't think it makes me special, i just like the character, if i enter a tournament with marth, win or lose, i will only ever blame myself.

 

nobody who understands tiers goes into a match with a lower tier character and expects to win. I wrecked 3 shieks online with a robin, that s*** should not happen,  but it did. you know why? because the people who go into a match thinking their high tier character is entitled to a win against a lower tier character, or that they are better players for picking a a higher tier are just as bad, if not worse, than the people who want to win with their c tier character. I main low tiers, and i gloat like a motherf***er no matter who i win against because against low or high tiers, i don't go into matches thinking i'll win no matter what tier i use. I go into them expecting hell from the start and play accordingly.

 

my mindset is "i'm gonna take this win whether you want me to or not." your mindset appears to be "i can only win if i use the best characters." zelda might not be good against falcon, but  so what? if zelda's their choice, then they need to accept that fact and work to get so good that only the best falcons in the game can win. that's how you play video games, you don't quit because the s***'s hard, you just adapt and work harder till you can win.

 

[spoiler=disclaimer]if you play games for a living, then this speech is not for you, if you literally make a living off of games, then you need to play as the best character you can, but for those who don't game to keep the lights on, all of the above applies.

 

[Agro]

All your talk of tiers doesn't change the fact that aMSa still funking destroys people with Yoshi.

[Jake the Sage]

what makes you think you have any valid reason to sheet on lower tier players? what makes you think people with lower tier characters think they're special? I use some lower tier characters because i like the way they move, and i can adjust to them better. marth in this game is significantly worse than he was in either prior game, but i still use him because i like his playstyle, i don't think it makes me special, i just like the character, if i enter a tournament with marth, win or lose, i will only ever blame myself.

 

nobody who understands tiers goes into a match with a lower tier character and expects to win. I wrecked 3 shieks online with a robin, that sheet should not happen,  but it did. you know why? because the people who go into a match thinking their high tier character is entitled to a win against a lower tier character, or that they are better players for picking a a higher tier are just as bad, if not worse, than the people who want to win with their c tier character. I main low tiers, and i gloat like a JABRONI no matter who i win against because against low or high tiers, i don't go into matches thinking i'll win no matter what tier i use. I go into them expecting hell from the start and play accordingly.

 

my mindset is "i'm gonna take this win whether you want me to or not." your mindset appears to be "i can only win if i use the best characters." zelda might not be good against falcon, but  so what? if zelda's their choice, then they need to accept that fact and work to get so good that only the best falcons in the game can win. that's how you play video games, you don't quit because the sheet's hard, you just adapt and work harder till you can win.

 

[spoiler=disclaimer]if you play games for a living, then this speech is not for you, if you literally make our living off of games, then you need to play as the best character you can, but for those who don't game to keep the lights on, all of the above applies.

 

 

Couldn't agree more.

 

All your talk of tiers doesn't change the fact that aMSa still funking destroys people with Yoshi.

 

Maybe it's because he, now hold onto your funking socks here, is good at the game?

I would wager that aMSa could play quiet a few characters and be able to still wreck sheet.

[The Amazing Avian]

He is a dedicated Yoshi main in Melee, a mid tier at best. Part of it is he's really funking good, part of it is it's a Yoshi. He's played against all the top tiers countless times whereas Mew2King and the like can count how many Yoshis they've seen in a tournament with one hand. There's no way to prepare for that matchup since there's literally one Yoshi main who plays competitively. Granted he never wins tournaments but he's pretty fun to watch.

[Agro]

He doesn't win MAJORS, but since he lives in Japan he only ever really shows up in the US at tournaments where the 6 people who win every tournament show up.

 

In Japan, he wins a crap ton of tournaments.

 

Speaking of melee, I also made a Kings of the North IV Melee trailer yaaaaaay.

 

[Toffee.]

Why am I always surprised when I find out that people who are tournament-level, main Yoshi? I'm still under the impression hes a non-existent character because everyone would opt for Ness/Zero Suit/etc characters.

[Jake the Sage]

Amiibo Count is in!

38 out of 46

That's a stunning 83% completion rating right there.

 

All I need are the following:

Rosalina and Luma

Wario

Shiek (I can buy her anywhere)

Toon Link

Samus

Pit

Palutena

Ike

Robin

King Dedede

Metaknight

Falco

Ness

Wii Fit Trainer

Lucas

Roy

Ryu

 

I am currently excluding Cloud since he hasn't even been released to the games yet.

 

All of my Amiibo are Lvl 50. I really wish I had a Wii U so I could make a tournament and see which one is the "Best of the Best". My money would be on Doctor "The Butcher" Mario.

[Progenitor]

See guys, this isn't melee though.  Melee was not balanced whatsoever from the perspective of a fighter.  It was designed to be a party game, and nothing more.  It's fanbase made it competitive.

 

Meanwhile Smash 4 is balanced continuously, and done so with a more competitive aspect in mind.  The gaps in tiers are NOTHING what they were in melee.  not even funking close.

 

So you can SAY Zelda is bad all you like buddy.  But I have yet to see an actual example of WHY you think she's bad.  Cuz the way I see it, she has a mix-up combo throw (d-throw to be exact) that can lead into a variety of followups, each of which your opponent has to avoid uniquely, she has 6-7 moves that have the potential of KOing middleweights at anywhere from 70-100%.  She has a variety of tilts the come out frame 5-8 and do very high damage.  She has a very good camp game.  She has several long lasting multi-hit moves that can cause problems for opponents looking for a quick punish.  Farore's Wind, her best kill option, comes out on frame 7.  FRAME funking 7.  Her dair doesn't spike if not sweetspoted, but still hits them downwards regardless.  The amount of options she has is pretty insane at any given time.  Yes she has her flaws, but if you're gonna try to agrue that her framdata is BAD, you might wanna do some research first bud.  Cuz the facts are her framedata is pretty solid.  Not good, but solid.

 

Hey don't take it from me, take it from arguably the best smash 4 player in the world:

 

And for the love of god stop relying on "A skilled Roy can beat any Fox" logic.  And let people play who they want.  ESAM co-mains funking SAMUS, and you want to complain about someone on YCM co-maining Zelda?  cool story breh

[Shradow]

Why am I always surprised when I find out that people who are tournament-level, main Yoshi? I'm still under the impression hes a non-existent character because everyone would opt for Ness/Zero Suit/etc characters.

 

I play over a dozen different characters, but Yoshi is one of my main mains and I can say with certainty that he's really awesome in this game.

[The Amazing Avian]

I'm scared guys. I was practicing combos on a bot in Melee and it wavedashed. That should be impossible. 20XX is here.