Super Smash Bros. 3DS/Wii U

[Agro]

The funny thing about the Pichu + goggles thing is that was always my favorite costume for Pichu. They were adorable.

Pretty sure it was everyone's favorite costume lol

[Toffee.]

I love how in Katie's latest comic, Math and Mewtwo have the same expression.

Also-

[DL]

I love how in Katie's latest comic, Math and Mewtwo have the same expression.

Also-

I'm dying of laughter inside.

 

...I'm sick, ok?

 

 

[Lonk]

Are we still talking about waifus?  [s]Because Melia is best waifu[/s]

 

How would people feel about Cross from Xenoblade Chronicles X being a playable character in Smash 4?  From what that game showed us, Cross can be both a swordsman AND a gunner-type character.  So, he would be able to control and build up damage in gunner mode while laying down strong hits with his sword.  His Final Smash can be the Overclock Gear, which can be a combo-oriented one.

 

Besides, this isn't the first time that Sakurai put a character that didn't even exist yet into the roster (I'm looking at you, Roy).

[Flame Dragon]

Are we still talking about waifus?  Because Melia is best waifu
 
How would people feel about Cross from Xenoblade Chronicles X being a playable character in Smash 4?  From what that game showed us, Cross can be both a swordsman AND a gunner-type character.  So, he would be able to control and build up damage in gunner mode while laying down strong hits with his sword.  His Final Smash can be the Overclock Gear, which can be a combo-oriented one.
 
Besides, this isn't the first time that Sakurai put a character that didn't even exist yet into the roster (I'm looking at you, Roy).

I don't know, Fiora is also seemed like a good waifu. Gah, why did they make Melia so likable. I'm so torn. Maybe they should both get added so we can have ultimate waifu battle to decide once and for all.

I kid though. We all know what the game really needs is more husbandos.

Anyway, I'm not sure how I'd feel about Cross getting added. I think its because we know so little about X which makes adding him vs. adding the Inklings very different even though both are from games that haven't even come out yet. Speaking of him though, I wonder if he'll take the "Xeno" slot from Shulk or if Shulk will be the base rep like they've done with Ness and Marth.

[Shradow]

I'd want Inkling in to see how they'd implement the ink + squid form movement, if they'd do anything special with it.

[LordCowCowCowCowCowCowCowCow]

Thinking about it, Inkling might be a better Assist Trophy wouldn't they?

[Agro]

So I'm about 5 days late on this, so I won't post an updated ranking on Thursday. Instead, I'll post one on the 15th ALONGSIDE a tier list I've put together using the data. It won't be a perfect tier list that everyone agrees with, but it should be adequate given the data. May offer several different versions. I figure I may as well make one considering the whole meta is going to change with the updates that come alongside Mewtwo.

Anyway, here's this week's rankings:
- Characters with under 100 uses in first ranking signified by a ">" in front of their numbers.

[spoiler="Top 15 w/ 50+ Uses"]
1. Robin
2. Diddy Kong
3. Sonic (+1)
4. Pikman & Olimar (-1)
>5. Meta Knight (+1)
>6. Dr. Mario (+1)
7. Rosalina (-2)
8. Little Mac
9. Fox (+5)
10. Shiek (+2)
>11. Dark Pit
12. Luigi (-3)
13. Ness
14. Mario (-4)
15. Donkey Kong (+2)
Dropped: 17. R.O.B. (-2)
Next 5 In: King Dedede, R.O.B., Marth, Ganondorf, Kirby
[/spoiler]

[spoiler="Top 15 w/ 100+ Uses"]
1. Robin
2. Diddy Kong
3. Sonic (+1)
4. Pikman & Olimar (-1)
5. Rosalina
6. Little Mac
7. Fox (+4)
8. Shiek (+1)
9. Luigi (-2)
10. Ness
11. Mario (-3)
12. Donkey Kong (+2)
13. King Dedede (+2)
14. R.O.B. (-2)
15. Marth (NEW!)
Dropped: 16. Ganondorf (-3)
Next 5 In: Ganondorf, Kirby, Shulk, Toon Link, Zero Suit Samus
[/spoiler]

Of note: For weeks now, there has been one particular character that is always a big surprise to see in or near the bottom 5 characters, and that character is Yoshi. By now everyone should be familiar with how much better Yoshi is in this game than past and how many tier lists have him up in the top or near-top tiers. So that leads me to ask: what the hell is up with Yoshi underperforming so badly in tournaments?

[spoiler="For Reference: Bottom 6 w/ 50+ uses:"]
43. Yoshi
44. Jigglypuff
45. Link
46. Peach
47. Falco
48. Mr. Game & Watch
[/spoiler]

[Shradow]

Gah, I'm so excited about this Smash Bros. ballot thing. I keep thinking of stuff that would be really cool and unique, like what if they included a lance user or mounted unit from Fire Emblem, or something? We're obviously getting at least 1 more character after Mewtwo and Lucas, I hope they do more than just bring back old veterans who were previously cut.

[LordCowCowCowCowCowCowCowCow]

As I said before, I voted Ephraim but idk if anyone else ever will. XD

 

Also, Agro, that list...I had no idea Robin was that used. i figured most people avoided them. I'm so out of the loop....

[Toffee.]

Inkling could be like a weird Olimar/etc, if you think about it.

Her B attack would be to squirt ink/etc, and her other specials would do stuff, and then do extra stuff if ink is present.

Or something like that.

 

Or watch, she has a special that splats ink, and other fighters who touch it take damage, as a way of emulating how the gameplay goes.

[Shradow]

I just got into Robin, he/she is a very fun character. My playstyle is currently more sword based with the occasional spell, though maybe that'll change as I get more used to using them.

[Agro]

Also, Agro, that list...I had no idea Robin was that used. i figured most people avoided them. I'm so out of the loop....

Well the list is based on tournament tops vs tournament uses. Robin has about 1/9 of the uses as Diddy Kong (Diddy: 900 Uses, Shiek: 628 uses, Cpt. Falcon: 508 uses, Ness: 397 uses, etc.) but out of the 122 times he's been used, he's been top 16 112 times (92%), top 8 86 times (70%), top 4 56 times (46%), and won it all 21 times (17%). Compare that with Diddy: T16: 791 (88%), T8: 635 (71%), T4: 426 (47%), T1: 159 (18%). So you can see why he's so far up there. Whenever anyone uses him in tournament, they do really well with him.

Which is also fairly surprising considering how he's considered hard to play, or even low-tier on certain lists.

Definitely suggest searching matches where Nairo uses him, he's definitely the best player that mains him. (also he mains Pit & Dark Pit too, so he's pretty cool).

[Toffee.]

I just got into Robin, he/she is a very fun character. My playstyle is currently more sword based with the occasional spell, though maybe that'll change as I get more used to using them.

Just be pro; Play Robin the same way everyone plays Ness/etc- Fire spam.

[Agro]

Just be pro; Play Robin the same way everyone plays Ness/etc- Fire spam.

I mean that's basically the first thing to learn when playing him. Arcfire is one of the best moves in the game, and can be used in all sorts of ways (combos, spacing, defense, etc.) After that, you learn how to make use of the Neutral B (defensively, combo, sniping w/ thoron). One of the coolest things to learn though, is picking up his sword and tomes as items after they drop. Because they're really powerful for some reason.

[Shradow]

I use it pretty often to set up for Smash attacks, it is really strong. Though my favorite move is the Dsmash with the Levin Sword, that thing is great.

[Agro]

the spark that comes out behind him that no one sees coming is preeeeeeety great.

 

Also to put that #1 spot in context. Robin has never lost it in the 3 months I've been keeping track of this list. Now that's [s]strategy[s/]consistency. Only time Diddy has been close was last week when the percentage difference was a little under 1%. Right now there's a 2% difference. Largest lead was in week 6 when Robin had a 14% lead. Personally, they're both my S-tier, but I might rank him lower when I put out the list due to how technical he can be.

[LordCowCowCowCowCowCowCowCow]

One of the coolest things to learn though, is picking up his sword and tomes as items after they drop. Because they're really powerful for some reason.

Thank you for informing me on this I had no idea. Sounds fun.

To be honest. i don't have a Wii U and haven't played the 3DS one in a while either. But Robin is easily my favorite to use. Just a really fun and different character. Glad to see he/she can be done really well.

[Toffee.]

I mean that's basically the first thing to learn when playing him. Arcfire is one of the best moves in the game, and can be used in all sorts of ways (combos, spacing, defense, etc.) After that, you learn how to make use of the Neutral B (defensively, combo, sniping w/ thoron). One of the coolest things to learn though, is picking up his sword and tomes as items after they drop. Because they're really powerful for some reason.

Do the Lightning charge because nobody will honestly attack Robin regardless of how idiotically vulnerable you set yourself up to be.
Arc-Fire is the only move you will honestly ever use.
Nosferat is only used by scrubs cuz' they die otherwise/srsly, pro Robins like never use it.
Spamming his Up+B is pro in every sense of the word.
Don't worry about pressing R/L/whatever to shield, since you are too bust charging the lightning
etc
etc

This is every Robin in a nutshell^

They only "win" depending on how idiotic the opponent is being.

[Agro]

In other news Armz has salt

 

[spoiler='btw, if you were wondering how silly a tier list would look like if I straight up JUST used the data and nothing else, here you go:']

- bolded the parts I especially think shouldn't be correct placement in a real tier list

- Italicized the characters who have under 100 uses

 

SS: Robin, Diddy Kong

S: Sonic, Pikman & Olimar

A+: Rosalina, Meta Knight, Dr. Mario

A: Little Mac

A-: Fox, Shiek, Dark Pit, Luigi, Ness, Mario

B+: Donkey Kong

B: King Dedede, R.O.B., Marth, Ganondorf

B-: Kirby, Shulk, Toon Link

C+: Zero Suit Samus, Wii Fit Trainer, Captain Falcon

C: Zelda

C-: Greninja, Villager, Bowser

D+: Charizard, Duck Hunt, Lucina, Lucario

D: Pit, Palutena, Mega Man

D-: Samus, Pikachu

E+: Pac-Man, Bowser Jr.

E: Ike, Wario, Yoshi

E-: Jigglypuff, Link

F: Peach, Falco, Mr. Game & Watch

[/spoiler]

[DL]

Pfft

 

That tier list though.

 

Also Robin has a lot of uses in nosferatu and stuff. Nosferatu can heal absurd amounts of damage if the opponent is at 0 and youre at high percent xD

[LordCowCowCowCowCowCowCowCow]

It's funny cause the only time I ever won a match was using Peach. Of course it was a bullshit win but still.

[Agro]

The best thing about this tier list is that a whole lot of the characters on there are actually about where I'd keep them. Everything in A and up (besides Meta Knight and Dr. Mario) are characters I not only wouldn't be surprised by, but would expect to see winning tournaments often. 

 

Things I would want to use to make a real official tier list:

Character Viability:

Question: What characters are more likely to give each character problems? What character gives any given player the highest chance of winning?

Data on thousands of 1 v 1 games and matches including who the players are, what characters they used for which games and what characters they were facing and what players were they facing

An algorithm to calculate how good a character is by taking the strength of the player and the opponent out of the equation

Character Appearances:

Question: How often is a character used? How often are you likely to see a character? How often are you likely to see a character later in the tournament

Usage data (SmashBoards provides this to an extent).

Algorithm to deduce how often characters appear later in a tournament vs size of a tournament

 

At this point, you'd make a few things.

1. Power Ranking: Traditional Tier List showing how likely a specific character will help win you a tournament

2. Usage Rankings: A Ranking of How often You're Likely to See a Character and How Likely You'll See a Specific Character Later in a Tournament. This is essentially what I've been doing, tbh.

3. OU Threat List: A Graph/List/Something of Characters that Give Top Tier and Often Used Characters Issues. This is basically the Counterpick Tier List. Focuses on Characters that are better against specific high tier characters than their power ranking indicates. (see: Olimar)

[DL]

We should make a YCM power ranking btw.

 

 

We got some great players.

[Toffee.]

>LEL GUISE ARMZZ IZ UPSET EKSDEE!!!!11
Not even.

I'm just stating the, painfully, predictability that Robin players often stoop to. Think Ness, but a lot more ghetto, and trying too hard to do fancy things.
Also, Robin players tend to get flustered real easily if they know the opponent can jump and/or can out-speed Robin.