Lonk Posted May 17, 2013 Report Share Posted May 17, 2013 I know that, but I didn't know if this was a manga effect or what. BECAUSE NO ONE SAID ANYTHING. *points to the MANGA tag* ...the ZEXAL manga is incredibly dark if Shonen made two incredibly plot-specific Numbers monsters just for the sake of torturing 2 main characters. This won't go without casualty, that's for sure. Also, based on the effects, Shadow only purposefully lost to Kaito and Shark so that he can force them to duel each other. And, their effects look mandatory. It is not that they wanted to use them... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Premier Alexander Romanov Posted May 17, 2013 Report Share Posted May 17, 2013 *points to the MANGA tag* ...the ZEXAL manga is incredibly dark if Shonen made two incredibly plot-specific Numbers monsters just for the sake of torturing 2 main characters. This won't go without casualty, that's for sure. Also, based on the effects, Shadow only purposefully lost to Kaito and Shark so that he can force them to duel each other. And, their effects look mandatory. For the love of Lilith, I haven't read the manga, especially the chapter in which these guys appear. Therefore, I wouldn't know what these cards do to their players. And for the third time, do you Special Summon one to your opponent's side of the field and the other to your own? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lonk Posted May 17, 2013 Report Share Posted May 17, 2013 For the love of Lilith, I haven't read the manga, especially the chapter in which these guys appear. Therefore, I wouldn't know what these cards do to their players. And for the third time, do you Special Summon one to your opponent's side of the field and the other to your own? The monsters are Special Summoned on the controller's side of the field. But, as I said, they summon themselves immediately upon the life points being lowered to less than standard. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Miror B Posted May 17, 2013 Report Share Posted May 17, 2013 For the love of Lilith, I haven't read the manga, especially the chapter in which these guys appear. Therefore, I wouldn't know what these cards do to their players. And for the third time, do you Special Summon one to your opponent's side of the field and the other to your own? Neither of them have an effect to summon to the opponent's field dammit :/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
evilfusion Posted May 17, 2013 Report Share Posted May 17, 2013 For the love of Lilith, I haven't read the manga, especially the chapter in which these guys appear. Therefore, I wouldn't know what these cards do to their players. And for the third time, do you Special Summon one to your opponent's side of the field and the other to your own? I think Shark and Kaito each had one, and if the SS effects are mandatory, when the Duel begins, both of them would activate and be Summoned to their respective owner's Field, then battle. I'm going to look this up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Premier Alexander Romanov Posted May 17, 2013 Report Share Posted May 17, 2013 The monsters are Special Summoned on the controller's side of the field. But, as I said, they summon themselves immediately upon the life points being lowered to less than standard.Neither of them have an effect to summon to the opponent's field dammit :/I think Shark and Kaito each had one, and if the SS effects are mandatory, when the Duel begins, both of them would activate and be Summoned to their respective owner's Field, then battle. I'm going to look this up.So each one of them turns you into a weakened sitting duck if your LP drops below normal, and if your opponent just happens to have the opposite one, they get to fight...which looks like it ends in a draw.What is the point of these cards?!?Why would you even use them in the first place?!? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Miror B Posted May 17, 2013 Report Share Posted May 17, 2013 So each one of them turns you into a weakened sitting duck if your LP drops below normal, and if your opponent just happens to have the opposite one, they get to fight...which looks like it ends in a draw. What is the point of these cards?!? Why would you even use them in the first place?!? Look at the images on the op. It's Kaito vs Shark. Shark looks surprised as hell. Kaito's chained up. I don't think they were doing this willingly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
evilfusion Posted May 17, 2013 Report Share Posted May 17, 2013 So each one of them turns you into a weakened sitting duck if your LP drops below normal, and if your opponent just happens to have the opposite one, they get to fight...which looks like it ends in a draw. What is the point of these cards?!? Why would you even use them in the first place?!? My rough understanding based on earlier posts is that the person who "lost" them (He evidently Dueled Kaito and Shark individually and lost to them deliberately, losing those specific Numbers) did so specifically so Kaito and Shark will have to Duel. The cards exist solely to torture and kill the users, apparently. They have no practical use beyond this. Which is why I think they're the dumbest Numbers ever and fully expect their OCG effects to be completely redone. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lonk Posted May 17, 2013 Report Share Posted May 17, 2013 It's basically because Yagumo hates Kaito and Shark's guts for getting in their way. That's all you need to understand why these cards were brought out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Just Crouton Posted May 17, 2013 Report Share Posted May 17, 2013 So, if I'm reading this right, Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Premier Alexander Romanov Posted May 17, 2013 Report Share Posted May 17, 2013 My rough understanding based on earlier posts is that the person who "lost" them (He evidently Dueled Kaito and Shark individually and lost to them deliberately, losing those specific Numbers) did so specifically so Kaito and Shark will have to Duel. The cards exist solely to torture and kill the users, apparently. They have no practical use beyond this. Which is why I think they're the dumbest Numbers ever and fully expect their OCG effects to be completely redone. This is for these cards and Konami, not you, evilfusion. I am just so upset at this level of utter stupidity. So Shadow left these two Numbers for Kaito and Shark to use, then somehow goaded them into dueling each other, solely for the purpose of getting those Numbers to activate and kill the two of them. This is the dumbest plan in all of Yu-Gi-Oh! since Flip tricked Yuma into summoning Baby Tiragon solely so Flip could activate Ultra C and take Yuma's Numbers. And these are supposed to be the more intelligent characters, too! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
evilfusion Posted May 17, 2013 Report Share Posted May 17, 2013 In other words, ridiculously convoluted plot device cards that have no practical use aside from that plot scenario, and we should all feel despair for a moment with the realization that they wasted two Number slots on such terrible cards with identical effects. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Premier Alexander Romanov Posted May 17, 2013 Report Share Posted May 17, 2013 In other words, ridiculously convoluted plot device cards that have no practical use aside from that plot scenario, and we should all feel despair for a moment with the realization that they wasted two Number slots on such terrible cards with identical effects. Indeed. I apologize for my outbursts, but this is because I am seriously upset at this turn of events. It's only the streaming of cat videos that is keeping me from getting any more angry. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lonk Posted May 17, 2013 Report Share Posted May 17, 2013 In other words, ridiculously convoluted plot device cards that have no practical use aside from that plot scenario, and we should all feel despair for a moment with the realization that they wasted two Number slots on such terrible cards with identical effects. That's why I am upset, and they even used one of the more high-profile numbers (13) for this. That makes me mad. You know, I just noticed something: We never had a discussion on a single chapter in the Manga like this since...ever. Usually, when someone brings up manga cards, people are like "OMG!!! BROKE!!!" or "It's useless". But, we are actually discussing the plot of the manga here. Then again, we had to in order to understand these two cards. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Canadian Posted May 17, 2013 Report Share Posted May 17, 2013 Extra Deck life point modulation? Self-Destruction Button becomes a legit side deck card. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Premier Alexander Romanov Posted May 17, 2013 Report Share Posted May 17, 2013 That's why I am upset, and they even used one of the more high-profile numbers (13) for this. That makes me mad. You know, I just noticed something: We never had a discussion on a single chapter in the Manga like this since...ever. Usually, when someone brings up manga cards, people are like "OMG!!! BROKE!!!" or "It's useless". But, we are actually discussing the plot of the manga here. Then again, we had to in order to understand these two cards. True... ...Wait...aren't Shadow (the guy who gave out #13 and #31), Yagumo (Shadow's boss), and Kaito on the same side? They all work for Mr. Heartland, who works for Dr. Faker, Kaito's dad. Why is Yagumo sending his Number Hunters after Kaito and Haruto if they have the same superiors? And wouldn't Yagumo's superior get upset if his minions KILL THE SON OF THEIR BOSS?!? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lonk Posted May 17, 2013 Report Share Posted May 17, 2013 True... ...Wait...aren't Shadow (the guy who gave out #13 and #31), Yagumo (Shadow's boss), and Kaito on the same side? They all work for Mr. Heartland, who works for Dr. Faker, Kaito's dad. Why is Yagumo sending his Number Hunters after Kaito and Haruto if they have the same superiors? And wouldn't Yagumo's superior get upset if his minions KILL THE SON OF THEIR BOSS?!? Well, to put it blatantly, Yagumo doesn't care. From his point of view, he views those who fail him as worthless and then treats them harshly for failure (such as when he mind crushed Evildur for losing against Kaito), and he considers other Numbers Hunters not under him to be his enemies because of their title and duty. He's basically more of the rogue agent rather than one for the team. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Premier Alexander Romanov Posted May 17, 2013 Report Share Posted May 17, 2013 Well, to put it blatantly, Yagumo doesn't care. From his point of view, he views those who fail him as worthless and then treats them harshly for failure (such as when he mind crushed Evildur for losing against Kaito), and he considers other Numbers Hunters not under him to be his enemies because of their title and duty. He's basically more of the rogue agent rather than one for the team. I guess you have a point... But wait a minute. This whole setup could have been avoided if these two read the Numbers and decided not to include them in their Extra Decks! This entire thing could've been solved if Kaito and Shark even acknowledged their new acquisitions, or am I missing another detail? I'm sorry for going on about this, but I can't believe how inane this scenario is, or how low the manga has sunk. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lonk Posted May 17, 2013 Report Share Posted May 17, 2013 I guess you have a point... But wait a minute. This whole setup could have been avoided if these two read the Numbers and decided not to include them in their Extra Decks! This entire thing could've been solved if Kaito and Shark even acknowledged their new acquisitions, or am I missing another detail? I'm sorry for going on about this, but I can't believe how inane this scenario is, or how low the manga has sunk. Well, it is stated that the Numbers monsters are written in Astral's language, so Shark isn't able to read them. Kaito...I think he CAN read them, but I'm not too sure. To them, a Numbers monster gained is just another spot in their Extra Deck filled, and another powerful addition. If neither of them were unable to read the effects, then it is justifiable. If one of them were able to read the effects, then the manga just became stupid. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Premier Alexander Romanov Posted May 17, 2013 Report Share Posted May 17, 2013 Well, it is stated that the Numbers monsters are written in Astral's language, so Shark isn't able to read them. Kaito...I think he CAN read them, but I'm not too sure. To them, a Numbers monster gained is just another spot in their Extra Deck filled, and another powerful addition. If neither of them were unable to read the effects, then it is justifiable. If one of them were able to read the effects, then the manga just became stupid. I forgot about the Astralian glyphs. I've calmed down now. I'm feeling better. Bitter, but better. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
evilfusion Posted May 17, 2013 Report Share Posted May 17, 2013 Well, it is stated that the Numbers monsters are written in Astral's language, so Shark isn't able to read them. Kaito...I think he CAN read them, but I'm not too sure. To them, a Numbers monster gained is just another spot in their Extra Deck filled, and another powerful addition. If neither of them were unable to read the effects, then it is justifiable. If one of them were able to read the effects, then the manga just became stupid. I was debating the exact same thing. In the anime, at least, Shark could read Number 17 because he was possessed by it. He had no idea what Acid Golem's effect was, however, until Kaito explicitly told him, so it was EXTREMELY unlikely that he could read the text, then. III used Shark Drake's effect prior to Shark controlling it, and C32 is bonded with his soul, so he would know its effect, then. Kaito probably can read the text using his Photon Mode, considering the technology is almost certainly from Dr. Faker, who had access to Barian power (and Barian light seems to be in his Photon Hand and Orbital). Alternatively, Kaito has seen his opponents use the effects when he was hunting the Numbers. Almost every other Duelist using a Number was either possessed by said Number, or had Barian powers (III, IV, V, Tron). As for Number hunters, I suspect most keep their Numbers in their immediate possession because they have nowhere else to put them, fears losing them and having to rehunt them, or as an option in future Duels. Jin is the only anime Duelist who explicitly did not lose one of his Numbers because he did not keep it in his Extra Deck. I imagine Kaito didn't bother checking what Number he gained (he has so many, I'm sure), and Shark probably couldn't read it, and even then, where else would they keep those Numbers, and what are the odds they'd run into the opposing Number? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lonk Posted May 17, 2013 Report Share Posted May 17, 2013 I know it might be somewhat sadistic of me, but I really am curious to see just what method of pain Kaito and Shark go through. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
-Berserker- Posted May 18, 2013 Report Share Posted May 18, 2013 Let me see if I can think of an effect for them to have IRL Number 13: Cain's Devil DARK Fiend/Xyz/Effect ATK 500/DEF 500 2 Level 1 monsters. When this card is Special Summoned, destroy all other monsters you control, and your Life Points become 1000. If this card has no Xyz materials attached, it's controller cannot summon monsters to their side of the field. You can detach 2 Xyz materials from this card; Special Summon 1 "Number 31: Abel's Devil" from your Extra Deck to your opponent's side of the field. You must attack with this card, if able. If your opponent controls "Number 31: Abel's Devil", you must select that card as an attack target. This card cannot be destroyed by battle. If this card battles an opponent's monster, they take 500 damage at the end of the Damage Step. 31 would have the same effect but reversed. At least, this way it's only you who needs to play those monsters, instead of needing both players to use them. Also has some little use even if you don't want it's counterpart showing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jord200 Posted May 18, 2013 Report Share Posted May 18, 2013 They could done something involving the misisng cat zodiac, bad luck, the Great Depression, they had many creative and nice options. And they settle for this bull. Waste of TWO Numbers. Even more of a waste than GOLDRAT. Which says a lot. The Number choices aren't even creative. They're just the same Numbers switched around. Unlike.... 17- 17th Ghost Rare Card 8- Supposedly its supposed to look like a DNA strand. 22- 1822, the year Frankenstien was written. 25- 1925, first modern camera made. 42- Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy shoutout. 7- Do I need to explain this one? 10- First Number used by Kaito 20- Second Number used by Kaito 30- Third Number used by Kaito 85- 85 can sound similar to "box" in Japanese it seems. 69- Looks like Yin Yang. Info from lolwikia. They'll probably get new names too in the TCG, since they're named after religous figures I think. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blake Posted May 18, 2013 Report Share Posted May 18, 2013 They could done something involving the misisng cat zodiac, bad luck, the Great Depression, they had many creative and nice options. And they settle for this bull. Waste of TWO Numbers. Even more of a waste than GOLDRAT. Which says a lot. The Number choices aren't even creative. They're just the same Numbers switched around. Unlike.... 17- 17th Ghost Rare Card 8- Supposedly its supposed to look like a DNA strand. 22- 1822, the year Frankenstien was written. 25- 1925, first modern camera made. 42- Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy shoutout. 7- Do I need to explain this one? 10- First Number used by Kaito 20- Second Number used by Kaito 30- Third Number used by Kaito 85- 85 can sound similar to "box" in Japanese it seems. 69- Looks like Yin Yang. Info from lolwikia. They'll probably get new names too in the TCG, since they're named after religous figures I think. ... Are Cain and Abel not common knowledge? I thought it was one of the most well known lores to non-Islamic/Jewish/Christians. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cain_and_Abel Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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