nasuverse(tsukihime, fate, mahou tsukai no yoru ect...) VS. toaruverse(to aru kagaku no railgun/ index)

[vla1ne]

Out of these two universes, who would win?

 

in one corner we have the toaruverse, which has the power of espers, multiple angels of varying types, and possibly more than a few gods backing it.

 

 

currently the strongest(?) known being in the series, we have yet to see him Fight though

 

 

in the other corner, we have the power of the nasuverse, with dimension walkers, incredibly strong aliens, and the power of mystic eyes(death perception and otherwise)

 

 

currently the strongest being in the nasuverse also have yet to see it fight either.

 

 

 

my personal thoughts are that it would end in a tie, a horrible, world wrecking bloody tie that leaves all participants either dead or incapable of further combat.

 

but those are just my thoughts, what about yours?

please use actual feats or feats that have been confirmed possible for judging this, meaning if it's been confirmed by word of the authors, it's fair game.

 

also, it would be nice if you gave reasons as to why one would win/lose/tie with the other. don't have to though

[Merci]

ORT is the strongest being in the Nasuverse, seriously? Well, in a way, that is true, but it's not accurate because Archetype Mercury is composed of concepts from another planet. I'm not sure how it would fair against a Divine Spirit (assuming that angel-thing is one), but even a high concept of humanity cannot touch a concept such as ORT, unless

 

Well, look. I know close to nothing about the Toaruverse, but I'm sure there are a ton of things that can make the Nasuverse win. First and foremost is Gilgamesh. His Gate of Babylon is nothing compared to the 'sword' Ea, an Anti-World weapon created at the beginning of the universe that split apart the Earth and the Heavens - its attack, Enuma Elish, is probably enough to take down any Divine Spirit by itself.

 

Then let's add in the two magicians, Aoko Aozaki and Zelretch, who possess the Second and Fifth Magic respectively. I'm pretty sure that by manipulating time and parallel universes, it should be pretty easy taking down even a Divine Spirit by removing the causes of their existence in the first place - or something like that. True Magic is complicated, compared to magecraft. True Magic is something that doesn't abide by the laws of physics, something truly impossible, while magecraft only brings about stuff that can still be achieved by science.

 

Just for kicks, let's throw in all nine Archetypes from Notes. If you thought ORT (AKA Archetype Mercury) was the only godlike creature in the Nasuverse, think again. Type Venus, Type Mars, Type Jupiter...you get the point - plus Type Moon. All of these creatures, possessing concepts of different realm, cannot be killed, except with something that imposes a concept of 'death' or something that seals them away forever. They have all been demonstrated to warp the reality around them due to their unnatural, alien nature that is unused to Earth concepts. Now, if we have a reality warper in the Toaruverse that can bend the laws of the universe or an item that does the same thing, it may allow them to fight against these Archetypes.

 

Finally, let's add Shiki Ryougi-

 

Actually, let's not. Her Mystic Eyes of Death Perception can kill anything, even concepts, even realities, because she's connected to Akasha and what she sees is their Origin. Shiki Ryougi's " " personality is the most powerful being ever, and not even ORT compares to it. She can unravel existence itself and recreate the spiral differently, basically creating a universe with her own laws of physics, her own number of dimensions, and her own mathematics - on a whim, should she so choose. If " " and Haruhi Suzumiya were ever to meet, I think we all know who would win. If you're confused as to why, " " is the personification of the very beginning, Akasha, of which the rest of existence derives itself from, it itself only existing as it is due to the tampering of the Ryougi family.

 

If we remove Shiki Ryougi from the picture, should the Toaruverse possess a godlike reality warper, they stand a chance. Anything less does not.

 

Even if you remove all of the above, you still have the immortal Twenty-Seven Dead Apostle Ancestors, Arcueid Brunestud, about as many city-busting Heroic Spirits and Counter Guardians as you want there to be, Shiki Tohno, and even Earth itself if you're willing to go that far.

 

 

....I was just stating all of the feats Nasuverse characters have been stated and demonstrated to be capable of. Should you want a fairer fight between these universes, next time, specify more specific characters and what's not allowed.

[vla1ne]

^

just gonna play devils advocate here...

 

Gilgamesh would be matched by either index, or kakine, seeing as most of the weapons in his gate are also in her head, and kakine has infinite cloning of himself using dark matter(so far, I'm not sure if it'll stay this broken), his power is a concept similar to Gilgamesh's Ea. and the 1 angel we've seen fight so far has been able to tank attacks that would 1 shot Gilgamesh, so that's a toss-up between who moved first. I know Gilgamesh has a world buster, but I don't know if he could use it fast enough to respond to an archangels speed.

 

Also, toaruverse has a Ollerus and Othinus, a magic god and potential magic god who's powers (in theory, they just showed up so we don't have too much data on them) could be on par with Zelretch and Aoko. it hurts to say because she's one of my favorite characters, but Aozaki and Zelretch would probably be in a run for their money.

 

I know about notes, and that's why I have to call this a tie. the archangels in the toaruverse work on similar concepts to the archetypes in notes, in other words, in their true forms, they are pretty much reality warpers in their own right, so that battle is something i can't really predict either. But if I had to say one, I'd say yes, the types would probably have an advantage as long as the other religions don't interfere with the match

 

Shiki (all 3 of them) would  probably have to face accelerator, and if you've seen index, then you know that he moves any and all vectors including their knives, so that match would probably be his by default unless a mage using passive magic were to interfere. (something like a reality marble counts as passive as long as it doesn't have an offensive ability) it's been confirmed by Nasu that Ryougi has to hit first to win, and as long as accelerator's on the offensive she wouldn't get that chance. he took a continent buster to the face (like a boss) and lived to brag about it. then again he's a cocky bastard like Gilgamesh, so she might be able to get a hit in if she goes for a pyrrhic victory.

 

Also, Kamijou Touma himself might count as a godlike reality warper alongside all the angels and higher saints/magicians, after you cut his arm off. That second (third?) thing inside his arm seemed to be absurdly powerful if it made Fiamma piss himself, and his right hand itself can kill any magical/ esper entity as long as he touches it, so Arcrueid, the archetypes and all of the servants might have to stay out of any fights against him.

 

It's never gonna be a fair fight, both universes have an amazing amount of god-tier, broken-as-hell characters, and that's what made me want to do this, ^-^

 

For every nasuverse character there's a countering toaruverse character, and vice-versa. I just wanted to have a fun discussion about it, everything is allowed in a battle between universes, so if you know any weaknesses in either universe, feel free to exploit the hell out of them!!

I love both worlds, so either one winning counts as awesome in my book.

[Merci]

Huh. Surprisingly, it doesn't seem to be as simple as I first thought. I have to admit I'm impressed with that.

 

While I'll acknowledge everything else, everything eventually beating each other down in a gruesome, bloody battle, the final battle would boil down to Shiki Ryougi vs Accelerator.

 

I highly doubt it's as simple a fight as you describe, because killing concepts is an extremely major thing. In all honesty, that kind of thing tops reality-warping. Accelerator would probably be able to take down base Shiki (first two personalities, anyway). Continent busters don't exactly apply to her 'killing the origin' which enables her to easily cut down beings like Goku or Frieza - but this leads to the Nasuverse's greatest weakness. Speed. Because while the speed of a great many other anime are ridiculous, highly increased, supersonic, and maybe even lightspeed, Nasuverse treats speed realistically. Which is why Accelerator will be able to speedblitz Shiki around.

 

Since I don't know much about Accelerator, I took the liberty to research his abilities on the wiki. As you stated, the only way base Shiki can defeat Accelerator is if she aims for a pyrrhic victory and he's overconfident. Really, it would probably play out in a similar vein to Shirou vs Gilgamesh. However, when you said 'all three personalities', that's where you're wrong.

 

Void Shiki can kill the very concept of base Accelerator's ability and utterly remove the thin field of AIM around him before easily going in for the kill. But of course, a fairer fight would be if we pit her against Angel Accelerator.

 

Should the rest of the Nasuverse and Toaruverse go down fighting, Void Shiki and Angel Accelerator would undoubtedly last the longest, and be a very interesting battle. 'Vector' is a concept much like 'math' or 'space' so while she can destroy it, she would also end up killing herself due to her human form.

 

Actually, after a bit of thought, I retract that 'longest' statement. Void Shiki vs Angel Accelerator wouldn't be the longest battle. It would be the shortest. In the end, it all boils down to how fast Void Shiki can cut through Angel Accelerator's concept of existence (and how she even does it), and how fast Angel Accelerator's wings can counter that by changing the vector of whatever she's using, plus how far the radius of his ability extends. The battle might not even last one nanosecond.

 

Since both of these factors remain ambiguous, there's no telling who the victor might be.

 

Void Shiki is personified existence in a human container, and Angel Accelerator is pretty much someone who can manipulate the building blocks of reality. If Void Shiki wasn't limited by her human form, she could easily win this, and if Angel Accelerator's ability is on a scale of relative-infinity (as in he can surpass the speed light crosses an angstrom), then he can easily win this.

[vla1ne]

that might not even be the last battle. you seem to have forgotten that the nasuverse has beings that don't die.

Ciel (and beings with similar powers would be like immortal meatshields. and even the toaruverse has that one new girl who's pretty much ceil if she had a tendency to eat brains. both universes still have characters that neither of us has brought up, like wallachia and nrvsqr from the Nasu side, and Aiwass and Aqua the back (aka superman jesus) from the toaru side. if I had the money, I would pay to see this animated.

it would be beautiful.

[Merci]

I don't think Ciel's important. While she can't die, it should be pretty easy trapping her, either by pinning her to the floor with tons of swords or throwing a ton of heavy rubble on top of her. Immortal or not, she can't get out of that. Her main advantage is stealth and magic, not outright strength.

 

But as for Wallachia and Nrvnqsr, I did mention them. They're part of the Twenty-Seven Dead Apostle Ancestors, and they're not the only ones that pose a great threat (apart from ORT and Zelretch, there's Primate Murder, Forest of Einnashe, etc.) you have a point. I can't be sure how Wallachia fairs against anyone since his power can't be measured physicallly - he's a psychological opponent. And Nrvnqsr is a literal one-man army, you'd need a lot of characters to take him down. Shiki was able to bypass that by killing his 'core', but do you know how Arcueid originally planned on defeating him? She planned to kill all 666 beings, and that's exactly what anybody would have to do. Even Accelerator would have a hard time with him.

 

And while I'm sure it would be beautiful, they would have to strip away any semblance of plot for it to work, and the plot is what truly makes the Nasuverse amazing so amazing ^_^; so I find it hard to agree with you there.

[vla1ne]

you're right about that. ah well, a man can dream...

 

 

Edit: actually, they might not have to kill the plot, the plot makes the nasuverse epic, but character interactions are also a large part of it, it might no be a all-out brawl anymore, but if they did something like carnival phantasm using both universes... I can just imagine Touma with Shirou discussing the eating habits of Saber and Index.