Sinister Serpent

[Resident Fascist]

During your Standby Phase, if this card is in your Graveyard: You can return it to your hand.

 

To 1 please. This card would have absolutely zero effect on our current metagame and would make a few irrelevant cards more useful. "Oh but Mermails!", Oh but, they want to discard WATER monsters they actually get effects off, not this thing that gives them no advantage. "OH BUT INFINITE DISCARD!!" Oh but, a bunch of old cards like PWWB and Raigeki Break may become more playable. So. fucking. what.

 

EDIT: now that i've had my fun, i'll stop playing devil's advocate and say fuck this thing with an iron cleaver.

[Superdoopertrooper]

Good, this forum is starting to understand.

 

Sinister Serpent for September 2013!

[Agro]

During your Standby Phase, if this card is in your Graveyard: You can return it to your hand.

 

To 1 please. This card would have absolutely zero effect on our current metagame and would make a few irrelevant cards more useful. "Oh but Mermails!", Oh but, they want to discard WATER monsters they actually get effects off, not this thing that gives them no advantage. "OH BUT INFINITE DISCARD!!" Oh but, a bunch of old cards like PWWB and Raigeki Break may become more playable. So. fucking. what.

 

This doesn't even make hand advantage, it's literally dead in your hand and does almost nothing alone. Why is this still banned? Metamorphosis is gone, Sangan is gone, Restrict is gone, Brionac is gone, Tribe infecting Virus is gone, this is 2013, not 2005. There are very few applications Sinister Serpent would create that could possibly be considered "good" in today's day and age. I guess it's level 1, searchable by King Feral Imp and a OttSD target, at best. Otherwise, what would actually play this?

 

The only reason you should be arguing for this card to come back is because the format is so degenerate that it doesn't matter.

 

There should be no asking "please", because this card is a degenerate cost-eater. You shouldn't be asking for the format to degenerate more, even if this card has little relevance. This card is uniquely bad for the game because it doesn't make you need to reserve your resources. You have what you need to play, and with this, you automatically have the discard outlet you'd otherwise need to decide on. There should be no asking "please". No banlist decision should ever be based on the fact that a player WANTS a card back. Cards should only be pulled off the banlist if they aren't degenerate to the game and can't cause any problems at all. This does both, though the latter is lessened by the fact that the rest of the game is so problematic that this would probably be ignored.

 

More importantly, though, in your argument, you've chosen a poor choice of wording. It DOES make hand advantage. What it doesn't do is GIVE you hand advantage. It takes away costs, takes away the hand disadvantages. That's everything this card is. And it does it repeatedly. Infinitely. For anything that needs to send a card to the Graveyard. It's banned because it makes cards that have costs not have costs. It doesn't just make cards like Phoenix Wing Wind Blast more relevant, it makes it borderline unfair. So fucking what, indeed.

 

Mermails may not necessarily NEED this card, but if they get hit-which you can be assured that they will after a format and a half of running amok-they will very quickly be in need of finding a new discard outlet, and there is little doubt that if this is around, they'll abuse it to no end.

 

You argued that it's not the same now that Sangan is banned. And? They now have King Feral Imp, which with, makes this thing even easier to search than Sangan alone. In fact, even though many of the past cards that were able to make this more abusable are gone, many more are still here, and more importantly many more have been made that can take advantage of the card. Of many things, frogs come to mind, as well as a Mermail deck which would be in need of it during the same time you're suggesting we bring it to 1.

 

In summary, it's a degenerate card that gives players the option of not giving a shit if they have to give up advantage because they really don't and the only reason you can argue for this card's resurgence is because you don't think it will do anything and you want to use it. The prior of which shouldn't apply to cards that are degenerate to the game such as this, and the latter being just an overall stupid reason.

[Resident Fascist]

ITT: YCM takes a joke far too seriously. More to the point, Mermails without Atlanteans are shit, so why don't we just ban all 3 Atlanteans and oops, the problem has solved itself. Considering Atlanteans are almost better versions of this at taking away costs in perspective, I wouldn't mind seeing the deck with this instead of 3 RoTA on drugs with 1800ATK, 3 free tutors and a Backrow killer, and 2-3 of a Castor/Pollux with a monster destroy effect built in.

 

 I'm not saying this is the most balanced card ever but if you really look from a metagame perspective it won't do shit. Also, with the logic on the banlist, please explain how Envoy BLS came off the list. Also you imply frogs would give half a shit about this, why? Oh no, infinite slow discards for Swap Frog. It doesn't exactly provide anything being in the player's hand except for being a dummy card and a temporary wall. Too bad with offense setups like what E.Dragons can throw out, merely setting Sinister Serpent is asking to lose. Okay, it takes away the cost of a few cards. Phoenix Wing Wind Blast. When was the last time this was relevant? 2k8? Raigeki Break? "Destroy 1 Card on the Field." seems pretty fair enough to me.

 

 Yes, it's degenerate. However, if this could make more cards atleast somewhat looked at, isn't that more of a good thing for promoting deck diversity?

[Agro]

ITT: YCM takes a joke far too seriously.

If I was coming off as too serious, I assure you that, within this thread, it was not directed at you specifically. Though your asking "please" for it to come back was rather idiotic if not plain shardid.

 

More to the point, Mermails without Atlanteans are shit, so why don't we just ban all 3 Atlanteans and oops, the problem has solved itself. I'm not saying this is the most balanced card ever but if you really look from a metagame perspective it won't do shit. Also, with the logic on the banlist, please explain how Envoy BLS came off the list. Also you imply frogs would give half a shit about this, why?

 

 Yes, it's degenerate. However, if this could make more cards atleast somewhat looked at, isn't that more of a good thing for promoting deck diversity?

Mermail without Atlanteans aren't antiquated without Atlanteans. They still have all of their own inbred cards to make use of, and they'd assuredly add this card to the list of cards to pop a boner with. And I never said Konami makes good decisions. BLS SHOULDN'T be off the list, and I'm pretty sure I've made my stance on that clear as day since the day it did. For that matter, a majority of the cards in existence shouldn't be as well. But just because they are shouldn't mean that we should bring other degenerate cards back. It'd just be adding fuel to the fire and would merely lead to Konami being too lazy to revert their shit if they ever actually hit the degenerate cards. Frogs could find more than a few uses to Sinister Serpent; easy Xyz with Level 1 monsters, tribute fodder if pulled from the deck and, most notably, fodder for Swap Frog and other cards they could easily start running.

 

It doesn't matter if Sinister Serpent promotes deck diversity if all it's doing is taking away the skill that deck diversity is supposed to create by its very nature. You don't have to question which resources are worth losing when you have one card that can be that resource every time you need it.

[Resident Fascist]

 Though your asking "please" for it to come back was rather idiotic if not plain shardid.

 

I thought YCM would know after two years that I do silly stuff on occasion just to make some half decent discussion from people, it makes this section more fun. It seemed we was begging for a Sinister Serpent thread with terrible Devil's Advocate logic. Okay, I'll stop fighting this card's side now and just say that honestly, I don't really give a damn if this thing did come back. It probably shouldn't either, but it would have almost zero effect on our metagame as of current. I only put what I did in the OP in an attempt to make some discussion. I'm not dumb, I know this thing is broke.

 

 In a slower game? Hell no gtfo forever.

 In today's game? yes, it could come back but it would be stupid as hell and still shouldn't. Always been my thought on this. Also you forget silly E-Con shenanigans, as well as making anything that says "Tribute 1 Monster" have no cost. Not the best play but still.

[ihop]

Why should it come back? It's poor design and even if the return isn't amazing it's just cheap and shouldn't be part of the game.

[Resident Fascist]

Why should it come back? It's poor design and even if the return isn't amazing it's just cheap and shouldn't be part of the game.

 

It shouldn't, I merely said so just to attempt to spark some discussion. Considering my stance is "BAN EVERYTHING DEGENERATE EVER", I would definately not be in the "bring this back" boat at all.

[Superdoopertrooper]

Treeborn is basically Sinister Serpent that special summons instead of bouncing back to the hand. Now, what has treeborn done for the last 6 years?

[Azuh]

Now, what has treeborn done for the last 6 years?

 

 

FROG ENGINE BRRRRAAAAAAHHHHHH

[Canadian]

Treeborn is basically Sinister Serpent that special summons instead of bouncing back to the hand. Now, what has treeborn done for the last 6 years?

This guy....

[Superdoopertrooper]

 

FROG ENGINE BRRRRAAAAAAHHHHHH

 

 

Speaking of toads, this was the only problematic card in the frog engine. Treeborn is perfectly fine, especially at 1. Same with Serpent. At 1, he'd be perfectly legit and a nice tech in certain decks. Treeborn has shown us that just because a card can recur each turn, it doesn't mean it is broken or even a problem. Think back to the glory days of Goat Control. Serpent was not a problem at all, in fact he was a very healthy card for the game. That's precisely what he would be now too, especially if other problems were hit.

[TheTurtleOnceCalledGod]

Treeborn was always fine because its a free plus 1 that requires you to not have a backrow, thus limiting your deck style.

[ihop]

I wouldn't exactly call Treeborn fine either. Anyway this is nothing like Treeborn, Treeborn restricts what you're doing whereas Serpent just coems back all the time at no cost.

[Superdoopertrooper]

I wouldn't exactly call Treeborn fine either. Anyway this is nothing like Treeborn, Treeborn restricts what you're doing whereas Serpent just coems back all the time at no cost.

 

Serpent's applications aren't generally as good though. A 'free' monster on the field can be tributed for things Like Monarchs, Synchro fodder, is much better at being fodder for tribute costs and also chumps attacks without consuming your normal summon. Serpent can be used for things like PWWB and other things which require a discard, but those generally aren't used at all anyway because of how naturally bad they are. Serpent just makes some of them actually playable, just like how Treeborn makes other cards playable that simply wouldn't even be touched at all if he wasn't. And not playable in a problematic way either, it would just make them average cards instead of plain bad.

 

Treeborn was always fine because its a free plus 1 that requires you to not have a backrow, thus limiting your deck style.

 

Sinister limits your deck style too (in most decks) because there is no point in running him unless you're actually making a deck to take advantage of him. Building a deck around him will be pretty mediocre at best too because when you don't have him, the cards you included to take advantage of him will be very sub-par.

[Agro]

So what you're saying is is that they're not comparable at all and you've just been talking in circles.

 

Cool story, bro.

[Cute Rotten Yoshika]

treeborn is NOT good design because instead of being an effect that would only kick in when youre in trouble (oh no, my backrow got cleared out but hey! i have treeborn in grave to keep me alive) you just build a deck that circumvents that issue. and no, thats not "limiting". please. frognarchs topped recently. thats not "limiting" at all. are merlanteans "limited" because they also run little backrow?

 

OT: sinister serpent is worse than every atlantean, but that says more about atlanteans than it. could konami bring it back? possibly. would i enjoy it? less likely.

[swag swag swag swag swag s]

o dis is so borken with king feral imp

 

But seriously, this wouldn't even be good in Mermails. Should go to 3, nobody will use it. Like Tsukuyomi...

[Zeppeli Gyro Supreme]

Sinister Serpent + Dark Door

[Agro]

o dis is so borken with king feral imp

But seriously, this wouldn't even be good in Mermails. Should go to 3, nobody will use it. Like Tsukuyomi...

You make bad comparisons and you should feel bad. This card has ridiculously more uses than Tsukuyomi.

[Zeppeli Gyro Supreme]

Sinister Serpent also doesn't use up your Normal Summon 99% of the time to achieve a goal, unlike in my own (purposely) poor example.