A Discussion on the Genres of Rap and Hip-Hop

[Agro]

Seeing as there's a lot of hate for the two genres, I though it'd be healthy to talk about it. Are we just hating on it because it's popular and we want our own favorite genres to be popular instead? Are they really as shallow and uninspired as we continuously say they are? Discuss Hip-Hop and Rap, what about it you like and don't like, and what you generally think about it.

[.Rai]

Really depends. Hip-hop is an incredibly misjudged genre. I blame it on the fact that it has a indirect influence from street culture, and that its lyricism is often crude. Problem is, this is just a stereotype really. Also, mostly a suburban America stereotype.

Under the surface, it's generally some of the most interesting production in the music industry and some of the most truthful lyricists out there. Even when they are talking about wealth, it can be great. Just look at Watch the Throne or My Beautiful Dark Twisted Fantasy. Look at ASAP Rocky's debut album earlier this month. Utterly great album. Or Drake's album, Take Care. Delve further into underground music, and there's a whole range of stuff there.

Personally, I've been into Brit rap lately. Much more accessible to myself. It's much less stereotyped too, because of the natural white and black street culture over here. Professor Green, Maverick Sabre, Plan B, Wretch 32. All popular as mainstream artists, and as highly accomplished artists too.

[Dismal Euphony]

The hatred of rap, in my opinion, stems mostly from American stereotypes. Look at what's on the radio, on the TV, etc. It's a lot of nonsense that glorifies crime, drugs, money, and the degradation of women. If even just one or two popular rap artists rap this way, it creates stereotypes that will bring the whole genre down. It's like that with every genre though; one rotten apple spoils the bunch.

 

I'm not the biggest rap/hip-hop fan in the world, but I do listen to some on occasion because not ALL of it's bad. There's actually a lot of rap out there that doesn't get the recognition it deserves because people are so caught up in their judgments of rap. If you delve past all of the stereotypical rap, there's actually a lot of good stuff to be found. Not everyone talks about "money, drugs, and bitches." A lot of artists address real issues and have some really meaningful lyrics. While not the greatest lyricist in the world, one of my favorite artists (of ANY genre of music) is KiD CuDi. CuDi talks about a lot of his inner struggles, which I can actually relate to A LOT. Lupe Fiasco, who is another one of my favorite hip-hop artists, talks about A LOT of real world issues.  He gained interest in rap after initially disliking it for how vulgar it was. I think he was a refreshing change from most of the shit I hear these days in the rap game.

 

Overall, rap is not my favorite genre of music, not even close, but not all rappers are "shallow and uninspired" like most of us seem to think.

[~NOiSE~]

Agree with Dismal that's it is heavily stereotyped. It's not my preferred genre in the slightest, so I don't listen to much of it, but I give credit where it's due and there are a lot of great hip-hop and rap artists out there.  

[Susie]

I personally don't really care for rap, not because of the influences from some songs, but because I just don't like the sound of it

Certain songs can definitely have quite nice lyrics that are poetic, dramatic and full of meaning to them

But it's just the whole fast talking thing that doesn't appeal to me too much

I don't mind hearing some of it every once in a while, mostly when it's merged with other genres

Because I find it much easier to listen to

[Cute Rotten Yoshika]

its incredible to me that people can sit here and talk about rap like it is the only genre that has themes of misogyny, drug culture, and violence. that is far far far from the truth. those things are existent in ALL forms of media and the reason why rap gets the bad name is because its the easy target. it is even in modern times predominantly a kind of music made by black people, and unlike rock it hasnt been able to be easily contextualized for the majority yet. thats literally it. to say that those themes are a deal breaker for one kind of music but not another is pretty ignorant. if its not your thing on a stylistic level thats one thing, but on a purely thematic level theres no excuse.

 

additionally, even a lot of rap music that deals with those subjects is CRITICAL of them, or a parody. a lot of rap music is intertwined with urban black culture which is incredibly difficult to live in. these people are trying to explore and share their world with others. theyre trying to make people understand the hardships they have to go through. the completely preventable hardships. the hardships that the majority created and continues to contribute to. no one likes being told that other people are worse off because of their actions. so they denounce the whole thing.

[Dismal Euphony]

its incredible to me that people can sit here and talk about rap like it is the only genre that has themes of misogyny, drug culture, and violence. that is far far far from the truth. those things are existent in ALL forms of media and the reason why rap gets the bad name is because its the easy target. it is even in modern times predominantly a kind of music made by black people, and unlike rock it hasnt been able to be easily contextualized for the majority yet. thats literally it. to say that those themes are a deal breaker for one kind of music but not another is pretty ignorant. if its not your thing on a stylistic level thats one thing, but on a purely thematic level theres no excuse.

 

additionally, even a lot of rap music that deals with those subjects is CRITICAL of them, or a parody. a lot of rap music is intertwined with urban black culture which is incredibly difficult to live in. these people are trying to explore and share their world with others. theyre trying to make people understand the hardships they have to go through. the completely preventable hardships. the hardships that the majority created and continues to contribute to. no one likes being told that other people are worse off because of their actions. so they denounce the whole thing.

 

No one was implying that rap is the only genre with those themes. I think we're all aware of the fact that numerous other genres include these themes into their music. Heck, my favorite genre is OFTEN guilty of incorporating hate, violence, anti-religion/church burnings; however, how often do you turn on the radio and hear Burzum or Gorgoroth? You don't. Ever (unless you have satellite radio or something). Rap comes under such scrutiny because it's easily the most popular and widespread genre of music (at least in America) to incorporate such themes.

 

And the only reason these lyrical themes are a "deal-breaker" for me is because rap relies heavily on the artist's ability to write lyrics as well as the lyrical theme. Granted, the beat is a large part of the song, but most rap fans will agree that lyricism and word play are a much bigger part of the appeal. So, in a genre that relies HEAVILY on the lyrics, it is fair to say that lyrical content can be a deal-breaker for that genre, but not for another genre that doesn't rely as much on lyrical focus (though, that's not to say that lyrics aren't a deal breaker for the other genres in question).

 

At the end of the day, it all boils down to one thing; music is, was, and always will be a matter of opinion--and everyone in the world will like and dislike different genres of music for different reasons.

[WTFauKorean]

Wait people hate rap and hip hop?

I for one love rap and hip hop, shit, a close friend of mines boyfriend/fiance is a professional rapper *baeza if you wanna check him out*

 

I met snoop once and I had a blast

biggie smalls got game

Tupac R.I.P and love, and thugs mansion

 

And if it is hated then obviously it is not popular, WTFucking hell does that even mean? hated because its popular?  Do people hate on Justin Beiber cuz he popular? No you idiot its because his main demographic is horny or day dreaming teenage girls, and that's why guy's hate it.  Seriously, can you say he sucks as a musical artist even though there is so much worse shit out there? Well... yeah I guess you could, but that's my personal opinion.

 

If there's is anything I hate about rap and hip hop is that the mainstream rap and hip hop isn't really rap and hip hop anymore.

It's a bunch of auto-tuned no talent asswipe sell out artists.  Rap and hip hop of the 90's were bomb ass, then the young generation ruined it by loving EDM shit to much and so it got incorporated into it.

 

I mean EDM and rave shit I'm down with it.  Hell I was in the Rave scene 08'

but HOW DARE THEY CROSS IT WITH THE RAP SCENE

which is why I hate the rave scene forever now and I can't take turn of the millennia rap and hip hop seriously.

 

Rap turns you into a thug?  Nigguh they're rapping about wanting to get outta the ghetto and stop being a thug.

They talking bout how hard knocked shit is hard so don't go for it if it's not your only option.

Did you notice the only ones who rap about liking being a thug happened after the turn of the millennia?  When they were Beverly hills living poser fucks? 

 

Shit, every genre is there because of a means of expression, if its there to sell out, then dumb ass it's not a genre let alone music.

[Cute Rotten Yoshika]

if youre looking for modern rap that isnt autotuned and is good, i highly recommend Death Grips. theyre just incredible. not that i hate the autotuned stuff. but everyones got preferences.

[Agro]

sell out

Sorry, WTFK, you lost all credibility when you said this.

[WTFauKorean]

if youre looking for modern rap that isnt autotuned and is good, i highly recommend Death Grips. theyre just incredible. not that i hate the autotuned stuff. but everyones got preferences.

 

 

I'll check it out I already have a lot of good modern rappers on my list though

logic

wax

G-eazy

 

ETC...

Sorry, WTFK, you lost all credibility when you said this.

 

okay sell out is the wrong term to use, they didn't go nuts on the licensing, but they caved into the market in which they are not to tread upon, is my main point

[Billy Batson]

I don't listen to much hip-hop, mostly just stuff made by DJs and Trip-hop bands but they do feature rapping prominently. About the hate for the genre, well I think I agree with Dismal Euphony. Being the most played music in mainstream radio and being one of the most accessible type of music can also mean that it's easily targeted for irrational hate or rational ones since they are more well know compare to the rest of the genre with the same themes in songwriting.

[Dad]

Difference is, the mainstream media Hip-hop of today is controlled and discombobulated.  

 

"A smart mind is dangerous.  In their eyes, there probably ain't no real shit in yo' playlist."

 

And it's true.  Because 90% of the social media that we view caters to these close-minded morons who believe rewriting the lyrics of the greats gives them, "a positive image".  Saying "I hate the Ghetto.  I'm tryin' to make it," one day, then release a track a week later talkin' bout, "my niggas kill for no reason" is a different story.  Sure, there are some exceptional artists who aren't sell outs and fakes, but no part of the most popular labels are part of it.

 

This includes Wayne, Nicki, Drake, 50, T.I., Jeezy, Soulja, and every bum like them.  I'm not sure what part of Drake's lyrics are good, because he HAD potential.  Then he got sucked into YMCMB.  Same with Wayne.

 

But that's exactly the point the stronger artists, who are taking hip-hop back, are trying to get across.

 

http://forum.yugiohcardmaker.net/index.php?app=forums&module=post&section=post&do=new_post&f=44

[Cute Rotten Yoshika]

you dont really have the right to objectively declare what is wrong with a culture you (presumably) arent a part of lmao. nice try. hip hop doesnt need to be "taken back" because its literally barely different than before. there were a lot of stupid groups in the 90s and earlier too. you just dont remember them because, like with all kinds of music, only the good stuff carried over to the modern day.

 

even if YOU dont feel people talking about their experiences with urban culture is intelligent doesnt mean it isnt. a lot of the "b*tches and hoes" stuff is about a lot more than what it seems like on the surface. and even if it wasnt, its not like you care about any of that content in other genres.

 

hey, lets also talk about the fact that lupe fiasco made an entire song saying that its the fault of women that theyre perceived badly by the hip hop community.

 

yeah, that really happened.

 

lupe fiasco, who is often lauded for being "intelligent" and "above that kind of crass lyricism", is doing the exact same shit that makes you mad at other people. does that matter to you?

 

if it does, then you must realize "intelligence" isnt the be all end all of hip hop and you must find some other standard to judge by. if it doesnt youre hypocritical.

[Dismal Euphony]

you dont really have the right to objectively declare what is wrong with a culture you (presumably) arent a part of lmao. 

 

Forgive me if I'm wrong, but I'm pretty sure earlier in this topic you declared what it was like to live in a culture that you (presumably) aren't a part of.

 

I see no difference. If you're not a part of a culture, you have no right to say what's wrong with it, nor what it's like living in it.

[Dad]

you dont really have the right to objectively declare what is wrong with a culture you (presumably) arent a part of lmao. nice try. hip hop doesnt need to be "taken back" because its literally barely different than before. there were a lot of stupid groups in the 90s and earlier too. you just dont remember them because, like with all kinds of music, only the good stuff carried over to the modern day.

 

even if YOU dont feel people talking about their experiences with urban culture is intelligent doesnt mean it isnt. a lot of the "b*tches and hoes" stuff is about a lot more than what it seems like on the surface. and even if it wasnt, its not like you care about any of that content in other genres.

 

hey, lets also talk about the fact that lupe fiasco made an entire song saying that its the fault of women that theyre perceived badly by the hip hop community.

 

yeah, that really happened.

 

lupe fiasco, who is often lauded for being "intelligent" and "above that kind of crass lyricism", is doing the exact same shit that makes you mad at other people. does that matter to you?

 

if it does, then you must realize "intelligence" isnt the be all end all of hip hop and you must find some other standard to judge by. if it doesnt youre hypocritical.

 

Lupe is terrible too, lyrically.  Claimin' he skateboard.  LMAO.  That's my whole issue here.  Not the artist(s).  The lyrics.

 

And yeah I do have a right.  It's my opinion.  Not fact.  So let's toss that.  

 

Second, what's deep about "bitches and hoes"?  What's being hidden?  Because I read, decipher, and listen to lyrics.  I may be ignorant, so please enlighten me.  Oh, and don't get mistaken by my opinion, because that's what it is.  You're right, I don't agree with the "get money" lifestyle, it's not how I was brought up.  I make a lot my musical decision and favors based on my upbringing and the lyrics being spoken.  If you or whoever else wants to flow with that, more power to you.

 

Oh, and acknowledging the stupidity from the 90's versus ignoring it is entirely different too.  Most times I just ignore what I don't agree with.  But then I see people hawking on people like Wayne or Tyler the Creator, claiming their lyrics are "the shit".

 

If your definition of "the shit" is "when it Wayne's it pours", then I'm not going to take part in it.  Imma let you keep that while I find something that actually makes sense.

['tyleR]

Woah....reading through all these goddamn essays you niggas have written is ridiculous, and I only agree with half the bullshit said.

 

Now, let's all just clarify something.  You cannot say how difficult it is actually living in the ghetto/"urban black culture" until you have actually grown up in that shit.  It may be hard, but it's not "Incredibly difficult"  unless you live in fucking Compton, Detroit, some parts of Chicago, or Harlem.  I grew up in one of my town's ghetto areas.  I grew up in a black community, was surrounded and infused with black culture, even though I was white.  Was it hard?  Sure.  But it wasn't fucking gangland up in that bitch.  Violent crimes happened, I've witnessed drug deals, shootings, overdoses, plenty of shit, but it wasn't something that was like "Erry day I walked out and some nigga got shot.  Then I went and saw a crack dealer.  Then I came back home and watched some niggas shoot it out at the bus stop down the street."  That's just not how it is most places, even the places these people grow up.

 

Some of these artists talk shit about ghettos and all that, but you gotta realize that some of this shit is MADE UP.  Some artists, not all, use the talk of guns, drugs, and street cred as a way to boost popularity.  Take Akon for example.  Nigga said a TON of shit about how he served some 3 years in prison for car theft and being the ring leader of a gang.  That shit was proved false.  He has never served jail time.  Or Vanilla Ice.  Everyone already knew Vanilla Ice was trash, but finding out that he grew up in the easy 'burbs of Dallas instead of the Miami ghetto didn't help.  Or, more better known than both of these two, Rick Ross, who was a corrections officer in his past life, and a not a drug kingpin like he had rapped about.

 

Also, about that Lupe song, you're reading it wrong.  Maybe it's just my opinion, but I don't think he's blaming women for how they're treated.  He's more like outlining the misconceptions and different thought process behind how women view being a "bad bitch" and how men view "bad bitches".  Also, he's saying on how there is a difference between being a bad bitch, a woman, and a lady.

 

 

Ultimately, rap/hip-hop is about telling a story, real or fake, funny or serious, violent or loving.  Sure, the more intense stories are the ones that are paid the most attention too and mucked up in interpretation, but that's our fault for fucking that up.

 

I had some more shit to say but I forgot.  I'll remember later.

 

Goddammit, my language warning is probs gonna go through the roof.

[CinnamonStar]

 

Ok so n*ggas watch your language and let's keep this civil.

This topic is pretty legit and I don't want it to go through the roof like Santa's ass.

['tyleR]

 

Ok so n*ggas watch your language and let's keep this civil.

This topic is pretty legit and I don't want it to go through the roof like Santa's ass.

 

I can still say nigga right?  I think I can attempt to refrain from my coarse language so long as I can keep my staple word.  

 

No racism intended, niggas.  ;D

[WTFauKorean]

you dont really have the right to objectively declare what is wrong with a culture you (presumably) arent a part of lmao. nice try. hip hop doesnt need to be "taken back" because its literally barely different than before. there were a lot of stupid groups in the 90s and earlier too. you just dont remember them because, like with all kinds of music, only the good stuff carried over to the modern day.

 

even if YOU dont feel people talking about their experiences with urban culture is intelligent doesnt mean it isnt. a lot of the "b*tches and hoes" stuff is about a lot more than what it seems like on the surface. and even if it wasnt, its not like you care about any of that content in other genres.

 

hey, lets also talk about the fact that lupe fiasco made an entire song saying that its the fault of women that theyre perceived badly by the hip hop community.

 

yeah, that really happened.

 

lupe fiasco, who is often lauded for being "intelligent" and "above that kind of crass lyricism", is doing the exact same shit that makes you mad at other people. does that matter to you?

 

if it does, then you must realize "intelligence" isnt the be all end all of hip hop and you must find some other standard to judge by. if it doesnt youre hypocritical.

 

lol lupe fiasco

Cant we all just listen to Heiruspecs, G-eazy and biggie smalls and get along?

 

some one tell me that juicy is not a great song

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CHio4lLOhKc

 

seriously all genres have artist of good or bad intentions

its all about keeping it real, loving your fans, and having something that some people can bob their heads to

[~ P O L A R I S ~]

It ain't about keeping it real, it's about keeping it right.

That's the inventor of hip-hop by the way, for those of you who don't know.

There are a lot of people who are doing something positive, who are doing hip-hop the way it was meant to be done. They are reaching young people, showing them what the world could be-people living together and having fun.

But too often, the ones that get the most recognition are those emphasizing the negative. And I think a lot of people are scared to speak on certain issues. "Keeping it real" has become just another fad word. It sounds cute. But it has been pimped and perverted. It ain't about keeping it real. It's got to be about keeping it right.