Zazubat Posted January 31, 2013 Report Share Posted January 31, 2013 Something I have been thinking of lately is game design, and tropes in games, such as giving you an item in a temple in Zelda and then having you use it to proceed, and I was thinking, why not make a little series on this to discuss game design choices and why developers choose to make their games as such. The first is of course the classic line "show don't tell" pitfall where if you don't tell them anything it can hurt the game and make the player go "well what the heck do I do now?" which in case would make your game seem bad, even if it's what gamers want, and not just throwing info at you all the damn time. Is it smart to do as such? Game testers are always a help to this, though not every person would think the same way, and some might figure things out easily, while others might find it hard to figure out. Then what you could do is what I personally think would be the best choice: Tutorials. Not just "Here you go, here's everything you can do; good luck", no but having it be a part of the actual game. Portal (Portal 2 especially) does this extreamly well, both having characters interact with you interact with you, but also not trying to still retain normal gameplay, but instead focus on the new mechanic or item. Meanwhile in modern game design land, you see the same things done over and over again, and that makes you simply think that things work the same way they would in previous games, though I recently started AC3 (on the PS3, not sure how it's changed on Xbox 360 or PC) and it had it's controls changed. The game of course taught me how to play, though it's the 5th game and it's always been the same so it feels awkward and weird for a player who played all the other games and got it into their head that this is how the game works, and it ain't going to change. Should you have the game change to improve itself while retaining the same pacing the previous games offered? I'm interested to hear what you think, and if you think I should continue with this series or not. In any case, discuss away! EDIT: An other thing is to use certain colors or symbols on things where it will make the item work. Is it annoying that you're reusing the same things over and over again and that you know it's there for gameplay, not aesthetics? Just something I wanted to add on. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Catterjune Posted January 31, 2013 Report Share Posted January 31, 2013 Other people have already expressed it more intelligently then I could:http://www.penny-arcade.com/patv/episode/tutorials-101 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WTFauKorean Posted January 31, 2013 Report Share Posted January 31, 2013 This is a great frekin topic! Some there are millions of ways games have shown gamers how to play the game, and with that ways gamer's have figured out on their own. From a separate bland text based instructional tutorial, to the in game interactive tutorial. From the figure it out yourself during play, to the holy shit I need a guide. All different kinds of games are given different ways to show their game and it could be put as both detrimental and benign effects. For Example, most 8 bit games around the time the NES was around. didn't have instructions to playing the game. It was all simple and recognizable what to do even if you've never heard of the game before. You could tell who was you, who was the good guy, what was good to eat and what was bad to touch even if you've never played it before in your entire life. Other games these day have extreme complication to it, from puzzle solving to something realizing that creepy goblin thing is actually just a helpful NPC. there's so much detail to each and every single game it's hard to begin with one. I think I'll wait for others to refer a game, so that I can make a contribution into what I think about its design Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Agro Posted January 31, 2013 Report Share Posted January 31, 2013 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8FpigqfcvlM egoraptor explains why Megaman X did the "teach without telling" thing so well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zazubat Posted January 31, 2013 Author Report Share Posted January 31, 2013 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8FpigqfcvlM egoraptor explains why Megaman X did the "teach without telling" thing so well. I agree, though Megaman is not what I would call a complex game in terms of design, it's simply get from point A to point B and kill a bunch of dudes. I think the thing that stuck most out of Egoraptor's video is the mental "hey we showed you this part now do it harder" is something I never thought about before. In some cases it's not so obvious that they're doing it that way, which can, again, as I said, be a problem since most people don't think that way and some do. Though again, great video, so is Extra Credits' video. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WTFauKorean Posted February 3, 2013 Report Share Posted February 3, 2013 very well put on mega man okay I thought of a details for design to really think about shadow and lighting pace complexity physics programs sound/audio files That's why I want to put out a few honorable mentions - By evolution of games resident evil 2 was a ground breaker when it came to use of shadows - Portal used the basic valve engine to create something so very complex, expansive and intricate - Mirror's edge used high gamma and color lighting to great effect, with an amazing sound track/full musical score for each and every stage, with amazing flow of physics and audio files, adding a driven adrenaline filed perfection to it. - Dead space was the next step to shadowing/lighting much like RE2 was a ground breaker back then. - sonic and sonic 2 level designs and sound track - complexity in simplicity mechanic design in hit boxes, priority, frames and movement in smash bros melee - killer 7 and just, wtf Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flame Dragon Posted February 7, 2013 Report Share Posted February 7, 2013 http://www.wizards.com/magic/magazine/article.aspx?x=mtg/daily/mm/174 I link that article a lot. Seriously though, Mark as written a TON about making MTG and while it does have that focus a lot of what he says can be expanded to general game design concepts and ideas. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Agro Posted February 7, 2013 Report Share Posted February 7, 2013 Camera Controls Game Mechanics /agame Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zazubat Posted February 7, 2013 Author Report Share Posted February 7, 2013 Camera Controls Game Mechanics /agame maybe explain what you mean by this? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Agro Posted February 7, 2013 Report Share Posted February 7, 2013 You can make a good game if you figure out how to use the camera correctly, teach the controls fast and not make them hard to use, and have mechanics that are fresh and not broken. Pretty straight forward. :\ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zazubat Posted February 7, 2013 Author Report Share Posted February 7, 2013 You can make a good game if you figure out how to use the camera correctly, teach the controls fast and not make them hard to use, and have mechanics that are fresh and not broken. Pretty straight forward. :\ yes but you also don't want to waste your players time with mindless tutorials, and making sure your game is smooth and doesn't waste time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Agro Posted February 7, 2013 Report Share Posted February 7, 2013 You DO realize that my suggestion says exactly what you need to do to not do that, right? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zazubat Posted February 7, 2013 Author Report Share Posted February 7, 2013 You DO realize that my suggestion says exactly what you need to do to not do that, right? I got a little bit confused it seems. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Metallium Posted February 7, 2013 Report Share Posted February 7, 2013 tyvm for this topic man this is what i want to be soon. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Great Unclean One: VK Posted February 9, 2013 Report Share Posted February 9, 2013 One way I'd do it is two ways. 1. Is a practice mode in the start screen or something, think Combat Training from CoD or training from MK. 2. In game have a "boot camp" level, think the pit from MW2 and make it competitive, see who can complete the tutorial the fastest. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Catterjune Posted February 10, 2013 Report Share Posted February 10, 2013 You can make a good game if you figure out how to use the camera correctly, teach the controls fast and not make them hard to use, and have mechanics that are fresh and not broken. Pretty straight forward. :\This is such a vapid and shallow comment."You can make a good game by making a good game." Yeah real groundbreaking research there Doc. You don't even define anything that you're saying. "Correctly", "Not make them hard", "fresh and not broken", nothing but ignorant buzz words with no meaning behind them.On an unrelated note, you can make an enjoyable game without parts of the above, and you can have a game with all of the above and still have it be terrible. Game making isn't so clear cut as just three different check boxes to click. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WTFauKorean Posted February 12, 2013 Report Share Posted February 12, 2013 sumotori for example has the worst controls ever still great game Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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