This Account is Unplayable Posted December 28, 2012 Report Share Posted December 28, 2012 2 Snapcaster Mage 4 Lingering Souls 2 Terminus 2 Supreme Verdict 4 Think Twice 4 Azorius Charm 3 Ultimate Price 3 Sphinx's Revelation 2 Detention Sphere 2 Runechanter's Pike 3 Sorin, Lord of Innistrad 3 Jace, Architect of Thought 1 Tamiyo, the Moon Sage 4 Isolated Chapel 4 Hallowed Fountain 4 Glacial Fortress 4 Drowned Catacomb 2 Evolving Wilds 2 Island 2 Plains 1 Swamp 2 Ghost Quarter SB: 2 Negate SB: 2 Dispel SB: 1 Supreme Verdict SB: 1 Drogskol Reaver SB: 1 Elixir of Immortality SB: 1 Jace, Memory Adept SB: 2 Curse of Echoes SB: 2 Nevermore SB: 2 Unsummon SB: 1 Oblivion Ring Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flame Dragon Posted December 28, 2012 Report Share Posted December 28, 2012 I personally like the 2nd Tamiyo over the 3rd Sorin. I also don't like Azorius Charm that much. Cut two for a 4th Ultimate Price and a 3rd Supreme Verdict. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
This Account is Unplayable Posted December 28, 2012 Author Report Share Posted December 28, 2012 Tamiyo's been working better as a 1-of for me, especially since when one's landed it never dies and the second one starts clogging, or they're both just bad in a given matchup. Sorin actually helps the deck progress forward through a game, since the main focus is getting a Pike and swinging with it, which Sorin makes so much better by giving a bunch of dudes with lifelink. Also helps pump my Lingering Souls too when I don't have a Pike. Personally, I've found Azorius Charm to be one of the best cards in the deck, thanks to the fact that it can cycle, and the deck wins a lot of games just because it can see the entire deck every game. Ultimate Price is still pretty awks a lot of the time and is just dead if they don't have creatures, where Charm isn't. 4 Wrath effects have been just fine for me. I've never wished I had more, since I actually do play some form of creature base in this deck in a sense. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flame Dragon Posted December 29, 2012 Report Share Posted December 29, 2012 If you want something to cycle just play Thought Scour. It costs 1 less and sets up Pike. Honestly the lifelink mode on charm is never good in this deck and with everything in standard being cheap guys, guys with haste, or guys with ETB effects putting them on the top of the deck doesn't do you THAT much good. Sure, it kills tokens, but so does Ultimate Price. And Price is only dead vs control and not only would you rather a Thought Scour in that match up anyway, again to make Pike bigger, but all decks run on creatures and have real targets to pay the price. If you don't like Ultimate Price, Tragic Slip is also a good piece of removal. Your creatures are Sorin and Souls, you don't need to worry about wrath effects. Also, for the SB, cut Unsummon. Its only good in tempo based decks, and this deck isn't that. Not only that but it has the same problem Charm does, only it doesn't eat a draw step. Since I'd assume you bring that in vs creature decks actualy removal seems better. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
This Account is Unplayable Posted December 29, 2012 Author Report Share Posted December 29, 2012 The thing is, it can function as both which is what makes it so good. I've personally found Azorius Charm to be by far one of the best spells in the deck, and I've pretty much never wished it were something else. Thing is, I either have answers to their attackers in my creatures, or I have a Wrath. If I up my wrath numbers, cards start to clog, and since I have so much card draw I never have to worry about not having some manner of dealing with creatures anyway. I might try a 3rd Supreme Verdict somewhere, though, but I like my current removal suite. Yeah I literally never board in Unsummon anyway. I think I'll drop them for an Ultimate Price and either an O-Ring, Jace or Elixir. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flame Dragon Posted December 29, 2012 Report Share Posted December 29, 2012 [quote name='Borderline Unplayable' timestamp='1356755513' post='6104844'] Yeah I literally never board in Unsummon anyway. I think I'll drop them for an Ultimate Price and either an O-Ring, Jace or Elixir. [/quote] The change comes down to what kind of match ups your bad in. VS control I'd say you want another Jace. VS aggro I'd say you want more removal. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
This Account is Unplayable Posted December 29, 2012 Author Report Share Posted December 29, 2012 Well, looking at how easy the control matchup can be post-board, more removal looks best so I'll go with O-Ring. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flame Dragon Posted December 29, 2012 Report Share Posted December 29, 2012 O-Ring is to slow. The best aggro deck right now is B/R and with Aristocrat and Dragon both having haste buy the time you get rid of them the damage is done. If you still want the general application that O-Ring brings, Dissipate and Syncopate both gives this to you. Also, why no counters main deck? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
This Account is Unplayable Posted December 29, 2012 Author Report Share Posted December 29, 2012 What's faster that can even deal with those? Everything runs Caverns to the point where I was just getting frustrated with never actually being able to use counterspells in a lot of matchups. Removing the counterspells is what then led to me realising I had to still deal with those creatures and that's basically how I got to using Sorin and Pike. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flame Dragon Posted December 29, 2012 Report Share Posted December 29, 2012 [quote name='Borderline Unplayable' timestamp='1356758605' post='6104885'] What's faster that can even deal with those? Everything runs Caverns to the point where I was just getting frustrated with never actually being able to use counterspells in a lot of matchups. Removing the counterspells is what then led to me realising I had to still deal with those creatures and that's basically how I got to using Sorin and Pike. [/quote] Aristocrat, Dragon, and Hellrider all have haste and even with 1 attack they will take out a nice chunk of life. Even with Cavern they won't always have it and its never a dead cards since you can still hit noncreatures. Also, even with one Cavern out you still have live targets vs most decks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
This Account is Unplayable Posted December 29, 2012 Author Report Share Posted December 29, 2012 I know what cards you're talking about. Just a catch-all doesn't exist in standard right now. The thing is, when they have Cavern, I lose the regular advantages I'd have over a deck. I always want my cards to be live, hence I like how Charm cycles itself. If a card isn't live at any point in the game, I start losing the inherent advantage I gain off of my cards, which is especially bad against aggro. If it's against R/B and they just play a Caver on the turn I was holding up Dissipate, the game's practically over since I'm playing counters and not answers. If it's against G/W and they play a Cavern it's much of the same, albeit they're easier to catch with Charm and Price. Overall, it just seems bad and the cards I want to really counter I side for specifically, and Dispel and Negate just aren't good in some matchups. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flame Dragon Posted December 30, 2012 Report Share Posted December 30, 2012 [quote name='Borderline Unplayable' timestamp='1356803408' post='6105156'] I know what cards you're talking about. Just a catch-all doesn't exist in standard right now. The thing is, when they have Cavern, I lose the regular advantages I'd have over a deck. I always want my cards to be live, hence I like how Charm cycles itself. If a card isn't live at any point in the game, I start losing the inherent advantage I gain off of my cards, which is especially bad against aggro. If it's against R/B and they just play a Caver on the turn I was holding up Dissipate, the game's practically over since I'm playing counters and not answers. If it's against G/W and they play a Cavern it's much of the same, albeit they're easier to catch with Charm and Price. Overall, it just seems bad and the cards I want to really counter I side for specifically, and Dispel and Negate just aren't good in some matchups. [/quote] In a proper control deck them blanking a counter spell some of the time shouldn't ever be much of an issue since you still should have other answers in hand for what ever it is they are doing. However, this isn't a full on control deck so you've cut answers for other things so I guess I get where your coming from. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AsianGuy1137 Posted December 31, 2012 Report Share Posted December 31, 2012 My friend plays Esper Walkers. He mainboards two Nephalia Drownyards as do many other "pro" players as a secondary win condition in case of boardstalls or control matchups where nothing else sticks. I'd recommend having at least 2 somewhere in your 75. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Simping For Hina Posted December 31, 2012 Report Share Posted December 31, 2012 It is not much of a secondary win condition most of the time since they are slow. Jace, Memory Adept would be needed to help it out if anything. If you are going to mainboard Drownyard's, remember, they are usually more useful in the mirror matches to slow down threats and top decks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Hounds Of Anubis Posted December 31, 2012 Report Share Posted December 31, 2012 Drownyard doesn't really make sense here. My win con is actually through damage and I have enough resiliency to force it through. I prefer Ghost Quarter to Drownyard because a lot of games I just lost to a well-timed Wolf Run when I was playing Nephalia and less "creatures". It should be noted that, as Flame Dragon said, this isn't an actual control deck in every sense of the term. It's more of a hybrid between Esper control with midrange elements. If I want to win by mill, I just side in Jace and Elixir and that's enough by itself. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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