Game Development/Design, since I'm learning to make one

[Great Unclean One: VK]

As some of you don't know, I'm majoring in Computer Science in order to help me make video games, a task that's WAY easier said then done.

Of course I decided to first learn some programming languages along with some languages used for certain game engines along with learning 3D modelling with Maya, Bryce, DAY, and other programs along with teaching myself with learning how to make music.

The thing is, you can't make good games alone, and if you do, you're a demi-god.

Of course, I was wondering if others on YCM is doing the same or already have.

[.Rai]

I've helped occasionally with art and music for games - I know enough about graphic design, and especially website design (which is great for games actually). I plan to study a coding language fully sometime, or at least get a feel of it. Definitely difficult though.

I've wanted to try out 3D modelling, but I find it impossible.

[Not-so-Radiant Arin]

Most RPG Maker projects are made single-handedly. Then again, those people are, in facts, uber geniuses unlike myself who can't even fix a Battle System. However, given the limited 2D functionality of RPG Maker (which can be worked around), it's hardly an accomplishment.

But I'm rooting for you, mate.

[Tentacruel]

<-- Programmer.

Just stay away from RPG Maker. It's too different from most other kinds of game development. Python with the PyGame library is an easy way to start. Also try Microsoft's XNA library which is in C#.

[Great Unclean One: VK]

Already reading a pdf of making games with Python and so far it's easier to do so then with Visual Basic 6.

Never tried XNA Library.

[Flame Dragon]

http://www.wizards.com/magic/magazine/article.aspx?x=mtg/daily/mm/166

When ever I see someone talking about making games I link this. Seriously, Mark might write about MTG, but a lot of what he says can be used in general game design. I highly recommend reading his other game design type articles too.

[The Amazing Avian]

I can do 3D animation, rigging, modeling, lighting, and rendering.

[?someone?]

I want to get into it, but that's gonna have to wait. The only thing I can say is that for the designing part of game design (not the coding), Extra Credits have some really informative, interesting videos. 'Course, you're in the process of learning the code itself, but they're still a good watch.

[Umbra]

Currently studying Game and Software Engineering, hoping to make full-fledged games in the future. It's good for learning how to set up a narrative structure and possibly for "testing" some game mechanics, but in general, you're better off on your own.

TentaSparkle is completely right about RPG Maker. It gives you way, way too much for free to be useful for a programmer in learning. XNA would be great, if you have access to Visual Studio. On the other hand, if you think you're ready to take the plunge into 3D game development, I would recommend an engine called [i]Unity[/i]. It's free, it's powerful, but still forces you to learn what your code is actually doing before you can get a game running.

[Great Unclean One: VK]

So XNA and Unity?

Time to surf Google for these then.

Of course, If I manage to learn what I need to learn, I'm thinking of trying out making a small simple game compared to what I want in the future.

Perhaps something like a mix of SRW, Advanced Wars, and 40k.

[Tentacruel]

The hardest part of that would be the A.I. Start reading up.

[Great Unclean One: VK]

Jesus christ, it was hard as f*** learning in Python, I shudder to imagine for C++ and Java.

[Tentacruel]

Yeah, and Python is the easy one. O_o

Then again, C++ and Java, while more complex, are more straightforward and controllable.

[Dr. Cakey]

Well, [i]Game Maker[/i] is the standard "first step", since it has an excellent ratio of "doing stuff for you" to "making you do stuff yourself". But if you've already mastered another language it might be unnecessary.

I wouldn't knock [i]RPG Maker[/i], either, (although by this point it's definitely too simple for you) because unless you want to get laughed out of the community you're pretty much expected to extensively expand on the basic engine with [s]other people's[/s] scripts. It also solves the single largest problem I've ever had when making a game: assets. RPG Maker gives you a relatively large set of decent-looking assets all drawn in the same style. That may be the biggest reason I like RPG Maker, actually...

[Great Unclean One: VK]

[quote name='Comrade TentaSparkle' timestamp='1354252949' post='6081447']
Yeah, and Python is the easy one. O_o

Then again, C++ and Java, while more complex, are more straightforward and controllable.
[/quote]

s***, well, next year I'm going to college for Java so I should start reading up on it.

[quote name='Dr. Cakey Arclight' timestamp='1354283032' post='6081556']
Well, [i]Game Maker[/i] is the standard "first step", since it has an excellent ratio of "doing stuff for you" to "making you do stuff yourself". But if you've already mastered another language it might be unnecessary.

I wouldn't knock [i]RPG Maker[/i], either, (although by this point it's definitely too simple for you) because unless you want to get laughed out of the community you're pretty much expected to extensively expand on the basic engine with [s]other people's[/s] scripts. It also solves the single largest problem I've ever had when making a game: assets. RPG Maker gives you a relatively large set of decent-looking assets all drawn in the same style. That may be the biggest reason I like RPG Maker, actually...
[/quote]

I remember when I had to use GM in high school. I always hated drawing my own sprites in MS Paint but it was fun. My friends decided to make a couple breakout games as their final project while I made a jet shoot em up.

[Archbaron Larry]

I was always wanting to major in Computer Science, and make games as well. I decided to take AP Computer Science this year, and damn. That's some hard s**t. But best of luck to you, it's not going to be easy.

[Agro]

I tried taking a comp sci class last year. Didn't go well.

Will try again in the future, though I'm beginning to think my talents are better spent on management and game design instead of doing the actual programming.

Maybe something like what my cousin does, managing a team that's making a game for iOS (though I'd go for more console oriented works.) That may be close enough for me, even if being the brains behind a game is my dream.

[Crystal Remnants]

As a fellow game-designer "potential," (or software engineer - haven't really decided) I can respect that you've become passionate about your goal enough to come asking for advice on forums. It is definitely a sign of a strong desire to learn, which matters more than anything else IMO. That being said, there are many hurdles that any game designer must face, and they become more and more difficult depending on what career path you choose:

[spoiler=A few (long-winded) tips]
1. [u]Logic-Oriented thinking[/u]
-There's a reason why Computer Science is considered a Math class. No, it's not just because you often spend a good amount of time adding and multiplying in your code (well, not completely at least). It's because it requires you to think in the same terms as any other math class: with [b]logic[/b]. At my highschool, you must pass Algebra 1 before taking Computer Science. This is because you need to have proof of an understanding of variables and how to manipulate them. In Java, the language taught at my school, you manipulate your code in a way that is very similar to the manipulation of variables in algebra. However, the main catch is that instead of just variables, you are manipulating [b]o[/b][b]bjects[/b] as well. This is why programming in Java is called [b]Object-Oriented Programming[/b]. I don't want to go into too much detail and bore you to death with details right now, though I will say this: Java, as well as many other programming languages, requires the ability to think things through logically. There is most definitely a learning curve, but approaching problems in java with logical thinking reduces that curve [b]immensely[/b]. The best programmers I know at my school LOVE games that require strategy and critical thinking (e.g. Sid Meier's Civilization V, League of Legends, etc). There are only a few of these "elites" (myself included), but the three I know best all bring Rubix cubes to school everyday to play with. One of them finds even harder puzzles, like a Rubix pentahedron, and even a puzzle where instead of matching colors, it's a bunch of jumbled up rectangular prisms of different sizes and orientations that, when arranged correctly, form a cube. The point is, they all challenge themselves to think [b]logically [/b]with puzzles that require study, memorization, and very often, [b]redundant[/b] methods. These are all extremely important skills in the world of game design if you plan to do your own code.
2 [u]The Few Vs. the Many[/u]
-As a game designer, an important decision to make is whether you want to work alone or with partners. Most will choose the second option, as it allows multiple co-workers to shoulder the responsibility and effort involved with making a game. However, issues like trust, commitment, and differing styles all arise in these situations. You need to be able to trust your partners' decisions, you need to make sure that everyone involved is committed, and you need to be able to agree on what resources (language and software) you will incorporate in your game. If you plan to work for a large game-developing company, you won't have to worry about this as much, since you'll just be an employee with specific tasks given to you by someone who can manage these things themselves.
-On the other hand, there's the choice of working by yourself, or in some cases, with one other person. The benefits of these work environments is that the games can have a much more personalized feel to them. Unfortunately, you also have to do a [b]LOT[/b] more work. Games like [i]Braid [/i]and [i]Super Meatboy[/i] were made by only one or two people (respectively), and went on to sell thousands. My suggestion in these situations is to lower your standards on graphics, since those seem to be the hardest to implement features. If you want to learn more about these successful Indie game developers, there's a documentary called [i]Indie Game: The Movie[/i] that highlights the successes and the failures of some individual game-developers.
3.[u]Game Theory[/u]
-I made this one shorter because I'm tired and don't want to bore you with more text. Basically, it's important to understand [b]game theory[/b], which is the analysis of how games are made and why they work (or conversely don't work). There are many aspects involved, but they can all be found on the internet. There are several articles on game theory, as well as channels on youtube. Some colleges even offer classes online for free on game theory, as well as programming languages and game design. Looking at how board games are made and work can offer insight, as well as studying up on how to write novels, as the story or "flavor" of your game is a big part of the appeal that consumers look at to made their decisions.
[/spoiler]

Hopefully this was helpful. If you have any specific questions let me know. If you'd like I can upload some links, though I'd have to get them up in the next couple of days, as I am kind of busy at the moment.

[Great Unclean One: VK]

[quote name='Archbaron Larry' timestamp='1354582130' post='6084521']
I was always wanting to major in Computer Science, and make games as well. I decided to take AP Computer Science this year, and damn. That's some hard s**t. But best of luck to you, it's not going to be easy.
[/quote]

Thanks. Good luck with your classes as well.

[quote name='Remnants' timestamp='1354591886' post='6084667']
As a fellow game-designer "potential," (or software engineer - haven't really decided) I can respect that you've become passionate about your goal enough to come asking for advice on forums. It is definitely a sign of a strong desire to learn, which matters more than anything else IMO. That being said, there are many hurdles that any game designer must face, and they become more and more difficult depending on what career path you choose:

[spoiler=A few (long-winded) tips]
1. [u]Logic-Oriented thinking[/u]
-There's a reason why Computer Science is considered a Math class. No, it's not just because you often spend a good amount of time adding and multiplying in your code (well, not completely at least). It's because it requires you to think in the same terms as any other math class: with [b]logic[/b]. At my highschool, you must pass Algebra 1 before taking Computer Science. This is because you need to have proof of an understanding of variables and how to manipulate them. In Java, the language taught at my school, you manipulate your code in a way that is very similar to the manipulation of variables in algebra. However, the main catch is that instead of just variables, you are manipulating [b]o[/b][b]bjects[/b] as well. This is why programming in Java is called [b]Object-Oriented Programming[/b]. I don't want to go into too much detail and bore you to death with details right now, though I will say this: Java, as well as many other programming languages, requires the ability to think things through logically. There is most definitely a learning curve, but approaching problems in java with logical thinking reduces that curve [b]immensely[/b]. The best programmers I know at my school LOVE games that require strategy and critical thinking (e.g. Sid Meier's Civilization V, League of Legends, etc). There are only a few of these "elites" (myself included), but the three I know best all bring Rubix cubes to school everyday to play with. One of them finds even harder puzzles, like a Rubix pentahedron, and even a puzzle where instead of matching colors, it's a bunch of jumbled up rectangular prisms of different sizes and orientations that, when arranged correctly, form a cube. The point is, they all challenge themselves to think [b]logically [/b]with puzzles that require study, memorization, and very often, [b]redundant[/b] methods. These are all extremely important skills in the world of game design if you plan to do your own code.
2 [u]The Few Vs. the Many[/u]
-As a game designer, an important decision to make is whether you want to work alone or with partners. Most will choose the second option, as it allows multiple co-workers to shoulder the responsibility and effort involved with making a game. However, issues like trust, commitment, and differing styles all arise in these situations. You need to be able to trust your partners' decisions, you need to make sure that everyone involved is committed, and you need to be able to agree on what resources (language and software) you will incorporate in your game. If you plan to work for a large game-developing company, you won't have to worry about this as much, since you'll just be an employee with specific tasks given to you by someone who can manage these things themselves.
-On the other hand, there's the choice of working by yourself, or in some cases, with one other person. The benefits of these work environments is that the games can have a much more personalized feel to them. Unfortunately, you also have to do a [b]LOT[/b] more work. Games like [i]Braid [/i]and [i]Super Meatboy[/i] were made by only one or two people (respectively), and went on to sell thousands. My suggestion in these situations is to lower your standards on graphics, since those seem to be the hardest to implement features. If you want to learn more about these successful Indie game developers, there's a documentary called [i]Indie Game: The Movie[/i] that highlights the successes and the failures of some individual game-developers.
3.[u]Game Theory[/u]
-I made this one shorter because I'm tired and don't want to bore you with more text. Basically, it's important to understand [b]game theory[/b], which is the analysis of how games are made and why they work (or conversely don't work). There are many aspects involved, but they can all be found on the internet. There are several articles on game theory, as well as channels on youtube. Some colleges even offer classes online for free on game theory, as well as programming languages and game design. Looking at how board games are made and work can offer insight, as well as studying up on how to write novels, as the story or "flavor" of your game is a big part of the appeal that consumers look at to made their decisions.
[/spoiler]

Hopefully this was helpful. If you have any specific questions let me know. If you'd like I can upload some links, though I'd have to get them up in the next couple of days, as I am kind of busy at the moment.
[/quote]

This post helps a lot. Also, if you could, can you post everything you were about to post? I promise I won't get bored. Anyhow I know another guy who wants to make his own games as well. We're opposites in some regards. He prefers consoles, I prefer PCs. He's horrible at sprite making/creating lore and what not, I'm great at it.

I'm terrible at 3D modeling, he's amazing at it.

He can't find programs to do these things, I can.

Honestly I'm about to ask him if we should try our hands at something. He wants to try and make a 3rd person sci fi shooter and I'm willing to help him if he's willing to help me with my idea for an RPG. Of course he's better at making code so he might just need my help on the smaller things.

[fenrir]

Currently studying Game Design on the side with regular high school courses. Shared-time courses are great, let me tell you.

I'm not much of a coder, but we've gotten heavy into game theory and actual design. As of now we're working with the Unreal Development Kit, and later we'll be working with Unity. Honestly, I'm more interested in being a design over a programmer, although I'm starting to look into some coding on the side. It doesn't hurt to familiarize yourself more with the other facets of game development, which is the primary reason as to why I'm going through some coding information.

[Aix]

Pretty much everyone prefers design over programming, it seems.

[.Rai]

[quote name='AixDivadis' timestamp='1356725830' post='6104352']
Pretty much everyone prefers design over programming, it seems.
[/quote]

I'm not surprised :3 I don't know what's worse though in a scenario: knowing only programming and going through the process of extremely difficult coding, or being a designer but never fully realising your visions as a physical game.

It's extremely difficult both to design and programme a game. Most people stick to just one, and rightfully so.

[Tentacruel]

I'm learning programming now, and it just dawned on me that I might need to actually study game design instead of relying entirely on programming to get me into design.

That being said, I'm pretty sure the jobs overlap, even for big budget titles.

[fenrir]

Uh, in the game design industry, you don't [i]need[/i] both. When you get hired to work on a game, you get hired as either a designer, a programmer, an artist, or an animator, etc. Learning both programming and design, while a noble idea, is frankly unnecessary, because at the end of the day you're only going to get hired for one position, not several. Unless you wanted to make indie games or something, but even then those groups at least have the basic three down.

However, it doesn't hurt to at least familiarize yourself with how the other positions work. That can help you work more cohesively with your group, as you can begin to understand the limitations and possibilities between the other groups, and thus you run into less problems when actually putting together a game. At the end of the day, game development is all about several groups of people that are good at x thing, producing y amount of resources specific to their specialty, and then putting those resources together to make a game. It's a team effort.

[Aix]

What language(s) do you guys learn for programming? Which should be learned first (if multiple)?