Great Unclean One: VK Posted November 21, 2012 Report Share Posted November 21, 2012 I consider them one of the best types of characters, even made better if their goals are more better then the main characters. Example given: Ozymandias from Watchmen. Anyone else thinks writers and game designers should start trying to create more characters like these? Another example being Mr.Freeze (Pre-relaunch) from Batman and Raul Menendez from CoD: BO2. Honestly, how can't you love these guys? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Synchronized Posted November 21, 2012 Report Share Posted November 21, 2012 I think Ulquiorra might be my all-time favorite here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shradow Posted November 21, 2012 Report Share Posted November 21, 2012 I remember the first time I played through Wind Waker and got to Ganondorf... TT^TT Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
~NOiSE~ Posted November 21, 2012 Report Share Posted November 21, 2012 Uchiha Itachi from Naruto is the first one I think of. I wish I had something better than anime to site [b]:/[/b] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shradow Posted November 21, 2012 Report Share Posted November 21, 2012 Speaking of anime, Lordgenome from TTGL. Granted he was more of an anti-hero at the end. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darth Revan of the Sith Posted November 21, 2012 Report Share Posted November 21, 2012 [quote name='Gue'O VK' timestamp='1353469043' post='6074548'] Example given: The Best character Ever Conceived from Watchmen. [/quote] Fixed Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ｍｒ．Ｒｏｂｏｔ Posted November 21, 2012 Report Share Posted November 21, 2012 Davy Jones, Harvy Dent, Superboy Prime, Creed(Black Cat), Norman Bates and my personal favorite Lucifer(Supernatural). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phantom Roxas Posted November 21, 2012 Report Share Posted November 21, 2012 [quote name='Shradow' timestamp='1353469583' post='6074554'] I remember the first time I played through Wind Waker and got to Ganondorf... TT^TT [/quote] Said [b]everyone who says what their favorite version of Ganondof is[/b]. Is Mister Freeze unsympathetic in The New 52? That makes me sad, because just before Arkham City came out, I had decided he was my favorite Batman precisely because of the pathos of the character. Similarly, my favorite take on Doctor Octopus is Spider-Man 2. The guy loses his wife, and rather than an egotistical psychopath, he is driven insane by his own creation. Granted, all of the Spider-Man films, including The Amazing Spider-Man, tried to make it so at least one of the villains were evil because of some second personality convincing them, but Doctor Octopus wins out for this. That or because Alfred Molina is just a good actor. In a more roundabout way, DarkKnightmon, who I shall forever sing the glory of. While not a character where his motivation justifies the actions he takes to achieve his end goal, he was bullied by the Big Bad, and dedicates his entire life to being better than him, and yet when it seems like he's done just that, he realizes that he truly hasn't. I don't care if I'm reading too much into it and totally misrepresenting the character, he was just that good. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fen. Posted November 21, 2012 Report Share Posted November 21, 2012 Judge Frolo from Hunchback of Notre' Dame was my favorite disney villian for this exact reason [Besides being in the LEAST Disney-esque Disney movie] He believed what he was doing was right, and not evil at all. He felt as if burning the gypsies and imprisoning Quasimodo was following God's plan. You gotta love and love to hate the villians like that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ｍｒ．Ｒｏｂｏｔ Posted November 21, 2012 Report Share Posted November 21, 2012 [quote name='Phantom Roxas' timestamp='1353480067' post='6074681'] Said [b]everyone who says what their favorite version of Ganondof is[/b]. Is Mister Freeze unsympathetic in The New 52? That makes me sad, because just before Arkham City came out, I had decided he was my favorite Batman precisely because of the pathos of the character. [/quote] He's a psychopath who fell in love with a woman he hardly knew and blame Bruce Wayne for separating and him and his "wife"...so nope. But Scott Synder is still the best batman writer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phantom Roxas Posted November 21, 2012 Report Share Posted November 21, 2012 That's… disappointing, to say the least. I don't know whether or not to blame Snyder or Tynion for that choice. I hear Batman has been amazing thus far, and the only issue I read, five, was great because of how it truly made for an involved reading. Loved Talon #0, so to hear that one of them decided to take the defining trait of a good character and reduce it to a delusion is just depressing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ｍｒ．Ｒｏｂｏｔ Posted November 21, 2012 Report Share Posted November 21, 2012 [quote name='Phantom Roxas' timestamp='1353483816' post='6074707'] That's… disappointing, to say the least. I don't know whether or not to blame Snyder or Tynion for that choice. I hear Batman has been amazing thus far, and the only issue I read, five, was great because of how it truly made for an involved reading. Loved Talon #0, so to hear that one of them decided to take the defining trait of a good character and reduce it to a delusion is just depressing. [/quote] Neither Synder or Tynion did. I think I was Morrison who suggested that all of Batman's rouge should have a boderline psychopathic motivation to differentiate the costume villain and the mobs because he propose a mob vs the standard rouge arc but I don't think we'll see it since he's leaving Batman Inc after issue 12(I think..). But to be fair, Freez was never a sympathetic villain to begin with. He was just a random middle age man who froze everybody and rob banks until the very, very sad origin story was written for the animated show. That's when they imply that origin into his character in the comic's continuity. And hellz yeah about Talon. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Catterjune Posted November 21, 2012 Report Share Posted November 21, 2012 I hate sympathetic villains who were assholes the whole way through and then get a karma excuse way way way at the end, after their evil deeds had already ruined everyone's life. Example: Marik from Yu-Gi-Oh. Pegasus from Yu-Gi-Oh. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Synchronized Posted November 21, 2012 Report Share Posted November 21, 2012 [quote name='Hatcher' timestamp='1353512925' post='6074842'] I hate sympathetic villains who were a******s the whole way through and then get a karma excuse way way way at the end, after their evil deeds had already ruined everyone's life. Example: Marik from Yu-Gi-Oh. Pegasus from Yu-Gi-Oh. [/quote] Wasn't Pegasus' goal from the beginning to bring his wife (or lover) back to life because she had died in a tragic accident? I'm not sure how you can consider that villianous, perhaps just misguided. I always appreciated the story they told with Pegasus and his character becomes quite likeable down the stretch, imo. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phantom Roxas Posted November 21, 2012 Report Share Posted November 21, 2012 [quote name='Phantom Stranger' timestamp='1353496397' post='6074774'] Neither Synder or Tynion did. I think I was Morrison who suggested that all of Batman's rouge should have a boderline psychopathic motivation to differentiate the costume villain and the mobs because he propose a mob vs the standard rouge arc but I don't think we'll see it since he's leaving Batman Inc after issue 12(I think..). But to be fair, Freez was never a sympathetic villain to begin with. He was just a random middle age man who froze everybody and rob banks until the very, very sad origin story was written for the animated show. That's when they imply that origin into his character in the comic's continuity. And hellz yeah about Talon. [/quote] Morrison? Not surprised, since when I read Batman & Robin #1-6, I didn't find any of the villains interesting precisely because of their psychopathic nature. We had some guy who liked to replace people's faces, then some guy who was lobotomized and thus was an insane murder. I can see how it affected Snyder and Tynion's story, though, given what I assume was a large influence on the Batman books before Flashpoint. Although really, it's better than letting Lobdell take over various lines [i]oh wait[/i], Superman. [quote name='- Neo -' timestamp='1353514309' post='6074854'] Wasn't Pegasus' goal from the beginning to bring his wife (or lover) back to life because she had died in a tragic accident? I'm not sure how you can consider that villianous, perhaps just misguided. I always appreciated the story they told with Pegasus and his character becomes quite likeable down the stretch, imo. [/quote] Hatcher's point is that just because they have a sob story doesn't excuse them from the atrocities they committed, as if the fact that we're supposed to feel sorry for them should immediately overwrite how much we hated them up until that revelation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Great Unclean One: VK Posted November 21, 2012 Author Report Share Posted November 21, 2012 [quote name='Shradow' timestamp='1353472755' post='6074606'] Speaking of anime, Lordgenome from TTGL. Granted he was more of an anti-hero at the end. [/quote] You also forgot the Anti Spiral. They just wanted to make sure the end of the Universe doesn't quickly happen unlike the Spirals who decided to accelerate it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Umbra Posted November 21, 2012 Report Share Posted November 21, 2012 [quote name='Hatcher' timestamp='1353512925' post='6074842'] I hate sympathetic villains who were a******s the whole way through and then get a karma excuse way way way at the end, after their evil deeds had already ruined everyone's life. Example: Marik from Yu-Gi-Oh. Pegasus from Yu-Gi-Oh. [/quote] Or Darth Vader. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Catterjune Posted November 21, 2012 Report Share Posted November 21, 2012 [quote]Wasn't Pegasus' goal from the beginning to bring his wife (or lover) back to life because she had died in a tragic accident? I'm not sure how you can consider that villianous, perhaps just misguided. I always appreciated the story they told with Pegasus and his character becomes quite likeable down the stretch, imo. [/quote] Misguided implies that somebody "guided" him towards this plan. It implies he was a puppet, used by the actual main villain. The plan to usurp Kaiba Corp for it's hologram technology was entirely his doing. There was never any indication that he got this idea from someone else, or that it was anything other then selfish on his part. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lt. Colonel Remo Posted November 21, 2012 Report Share Posted November 21, 2012 [quote name='Hatcher' timestamp='1353533041' post='6075060'] Misguided implies that somebody "guided" him towards this plan. It implies he was a puppet, used by the actual main villain. The plan to usurp Kaiba Corp for it's hologram technology was entirely his doing. There was never any indication that he got this idea from someone else, or that it was anything other then selfish on his part. [/quote] Usurping Kaiba Corp isn't evil at all And it's not like he [i]chose[/i] to have his wife taken from him Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dwarven King Posted November 22, 2012 Report Share Posted November 22, 2012 [quote name='Gue'O VK' timestamp='1353469043' post='6074548']Raul Menendez from CoD: BO2.[/quote] While I agree that his sister dying was bad and all, you have to remember that he was doing bad things BEFORE her death. And revenge is never an excuse. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Great Unclean One: VK Posted November 22, 2012 Author Report Share Posted November 22, 2012 Then are you saying Char Aznable isn't a sympathetic character? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
✪RION Posted November 22, 2012 Report Share Posted November 22, 2012 [color=#800080][b]Before the prequels, Darth Vader was a bad ass big bad. Now he's a whinny tragic hero/sympathetic villain.[/b][/color] [color=#800080][b]And Harmony from Buffy The Vampire Hunter.[/b][/color] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Catterjune Posted November 22, 2012 Report Share Posted November 22, 2012 [quote name='Captain Remo' timestamp='1353534296' post='6075086'] Usurping Kaiba Corp isn't evil at all [/quote] No, but how he went about trying to was. [quote name='Captain Remo' timestamp='1353534296' post='6075086'] And it's not like he [i]chose[/i] to have his wife taken from him [/quote] No, but what he did to cope with it was entirely his decision. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shradow Posted November 23, 2012 Report Share Posted November 23, 2012 [quote name='Gue'O VK' timestamp='1353516653' post='6074873'] You also forgot the Anti Spiral. They just wanted to make sure the end of the Universe doesn't quickly happen unlike the Spirals who decided to accelerate it. [/quote] I thought about them, but they're not so much Sympathetic Villains as they are Well-Intentioned Extremists, which is why I didn't include them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
?someone? Posted November 23, 2012 Report Share Posted November 23, 2012 Can't you be misguided by yourself? It sounds stupid, but I mean when you convince yourself something is right, when you kinda know it isn't? And Gue'O, that vid in your sig is bada**. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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