Go get Federal help, get called scum

[Great Unclean One: VK]

So gentlemen, we all know going to college is expensive as f*** and we all wouldn't want to willingly spend loads of money at once.

Hence why I tried signing up for some aid, and hence why my friends (Who just don't get this kinds of things) think I'm leeching off of my country. Namely due to them seeing any sort of asking for help from the government being lazy. Even though they know that my family is dirt f***ing poor and only managed a nice house by having 13-5 people working and living in it.

So discuss welfare and stuff.

[Synchronized]

Lmao Federal Aid is awesome.

Especially Pell Grants and stuff, cuts down the amount you have to pay.

Anyone that calls you 'scum' for attempting to get college loans should try and shell out $10,000+ a year out of pocket and see where they end up financially.

[Great Unclean One: VK]

Actually current projections for my cost will be around $5K-$7K due to going a community college.

Even then you should see my cousin who went to a big fancy university that costs around $30-40K and signed up for aid, now the government is paying half of it and he's getting a loan and loaning from his dad.

My older bro on the other hand went to the same school and is paying over half of it with loans and burrowing money from our even more dirt poor dad.

You can see even I'm not that stupid and I'm the family moron.

[Synchronized]

I'm in Community College as we speak, and it's costing me about $4000 a year. Last year I went to a University though, and that was about $12,000.

Of course I was stupid and let a girl affect my personal life and stopped trying in school and basically wasted all that money.

[Bahamut - Envoy of the End]

Systems are there for the right reasons to help those who need it.

Systems are abused by lazy scum.

Before anyone gets sensitive and thinks I'm being all sweeping, I'm not refering to anyone here or in particular. But this does happen and it's unfortunately hard to stop. I've been on Jobseekers for a year at one time, it was f***ing horrible. But some people just want to live their lives that way on benefits (and make some drug money on the side usually I believe). You give an inch, and some people take a mile.

[Umbra]

Here in Sweden, college is publically funded. That means that as long as you apply to the correct agency, and fulfill the requirements of a college education, classes are entirely free, and the government will actually pay [i]you[/i] for getting an education.

Of course, that all comes back later in the form of higher taxes, but I think it's a good thing.

[Great Unclean One: VK]

Umbra, on one hand I envy the systems in the Nordic countries like Sweden and Finland, but then again I've heard you all have similar systems.
That and according to my teachers, your schools, hospitals, and other public services are s***, no offense.
That and in Sweden, I've heard the Femenists there are even worse then in the U.S. By that, attacking any "strong" men.
Then again, I wouldn't mind visiting Sweden, I heard its a nice country.

Of course I don't really believe my teachers about your country being shitty.

That and I wouldn't mind high taxes.

I'm already used to having money taken from me for the "Greater Good".

[Umbra]

I haven't had to use hospitals that much myself, but from what I've heard they're definitely not bad. I do know that we get free dental care up until the year we turn 19, and that it doesn't go too expensive after that.

I can't speak for schools in general, but the ones that I've attended have been good. As someone who has experienced both Swedish and American high school, I can safely say there's a lot less competitiveness in Sweden, and subsequently a lot less drama. As for grades, we focus mostly on larger tests and assignments, rather than many smaller hand-ins. As a result, each test has a more significant impact on your final grade, but you'll have more time to prepare for it.

The feminists do their thing, as they do anywhere. They are present, but I wouldn't say it's particularly bad. The big issue in Sweden is immigration and Islam, which has upset the more conservative population to no end. (I say "more" conservative, because we don't really have a conservative party. Not on the same scale as America, at least.) Basically, take the whole debacle with gays and conservatives in America, replace the gays with Middle Eastern immigrants, and you have what's going on in Sweden now.

[Great Unclean One: VK]

Ahhh. I see.

Though I wonder what's your take on the United State's methods about education. Better? Worse? Or com ci com ca?

That I wonder how our education system stacks up to everyone else, so far I've been told by some people our way sucks, yet my U.S. Government Studies teacher say our method is the best in the world. Then again, I don't really believe in his opinions like how Sweden, Finland, and other similar countries are Godless Hellholes.

[Umbra]

Why no, America is best country evar 10/10. Freedoms and eagles and bacon and so forth, yeehaw!

Jokes aside, the American school system (at least high school) seems much more focused on competition and being "the best". I was an exchange student for a year, and the school I went to (north Cali) had the practice of letting you know exactly how high in your class your GPA ranked. Like, say, if you were 9th out of 150, or 147th. I don't see the point of that. For anyone that isn't in the top 10, that just comes as a disappointment. A friend of mine found herself in the 70s-80s, and was just devastated.

They'd also make everyone's grades public, by printing a sheet with the student ID and grade in every classroom. You don't know who has what grade, but you know your own, and you know if you're better - or worse - than everyone else. There was also this whole air of competition between the classes, which did bring out a bit of spirit I guess.

I did enjoy your system with elective classes, though; definitely nice to have more options than I'm used to. In Sweden, I had two electives per year, one of which was only twice a week, and one which was only once. In America, I had three electives, five times a week. It did feel good to have a bit more choice when it comes to your education.

Main point: The American system seems to be more about being [i]better[/i] than other people, whereas the Swedish system is about being [i]good[/i] at what you do.

[Great Unclean One: VK]

I honestly learned long ago not to worry about other people's grades and instead work on projects to show your skill. Example, I was never good at math but I none the less made a fun Text Based RPG in Visual Basic. Which is ironic since you need to be good at math to be good at coding.

I always strive to be good at what I do, whether is was playing the support role or taking one for the team. Sadly the opposite is true for my brothers and cousins. They focus on to decimate and prove to everyone how inferior they are to them. And they usually do. Hence why they love it when I fail at FPS games or basic math and they show off how much better they are.

Also, dear god, I can't imagine my life in high school like that. I couldn't imagine my senior year without coding, cooking, and advanced coding. Along with my Junior year of child development.

Though, the question is now which creates better results? I've heard that Sweden's system only produces averages, nothing spectacular, yet nothing horrible. While the opposite is apparently said about the U.S.

Creating under achievers and over achievers and rarely average.

Do you feel this is accurate?

[Umbra]

Coding (well, [i]programming)[/i] and math aren't necessarily related, at least not in that way. You do need a [i]logical[/i] mind for both of them, though; that's probably where your strength lies, logical thinking. If a college in your area offers a course called [i]discrete[/i] mathematics, you might want to check that out.

We do get to pick classes, but we do so at the [i]start [/i]of high school, which is your sophomore year, rather than picking specific classes for each year / semester. We apply for certain [i]paths[/i] of education; I went with a technology path, which means that I did do a lot of programming during high school.

I would say that both systems have their strengths and weaknesses. We do have over- and underachievers as well, and from what I saw during my time in America, you have a lot of averagers as well. Essentially free college-level education does mean that we'll have a higher percentage of people who do go on to college, which results in a generally higher education level across the board.

The main difference here, I think, is attitude. In Sweden, it's okay not to be #1. No one's going to think less of you if your grades aren't perfect. In America, that doesn't seem to be the case. I saw certain scholarships that required the student to be in the top X of their class, which was kind of disturbing in and of itself. Since it's about real money all of a sudden, it puts an entirely different level of pressure on the student.

[Bahamut - Envoy of the End]

[quote name='Gue'O VK' timestamp='1352854810' post='6068791']
Umbra, on one hand I envy the systems in the Nordic countries like Sweden and Finland, but then again I've heard you all have similar systems.
That and according to my teachers, your schools, hospitals, and other public services are s***, no offense.
That and in Sweden, I've heard the Femenists there are even worse then in the U.S. By that, attacking any "strong" men.
Then again, I wouldn't mind visiting Sweden, I heard its a nice country.

Of course I don't really believe my teachers about your country being shitty.

That and I wouldn't mind high taxes.

I'm already used to having money taken from me for the "Greater Good".
[/quote]

I've been to Sweden. Trust me, it was lovely. Stockholm is just the most beautiful city and a lot of younger people speak English. And the forests and lakes and... just wow.

[quote name='Umbra' timestamp='1352855913' post='6068802']
I haven't had to use hospitals that much myself, but from what I've heard they're definitely not bad. I do know that we get free dental care up until the year we turn 19, and that it doesn't go too expensive after that.

I can't speak for schools in general, but the ones that I've attended have been good. As someone who has experienced both Swedish and American high school, I can safely say there's a lot less competitiveness in Sweden, and subsequently a lot less drama. As for grades, we focus mostly on larger tests and assignments, rather than many smaller hand-ins. As a result, each test has a more significant impact on your final grade, but you'll have more time to prepare for it.

The feminists do their thing, as they do anywhere. They are present, but I wouldn't say it's particularly bad. The big issue in Sweden is immigration and Islam, which has upset the more conservative population to no end. (I say "more" conservative, because we don't really have a conservative party. Not on the same scale as America, at least.) Basically, take the whole debacle with gays and conservatives in America, replace the gays with Middle Eastern immigrants, and you have what's going on in Sweden now.
[/quote]

I forgot you were Swedish Umbra.

Where abouts you from?

I holidayed there a few years ago, I was in Stockholm for the first two days and then Sundsvald for the remainder. That... wasn't as lovely. The town was very pretty though because it was Dragon Festival (I think we've talked about that before, or it might have been with tomtekorv). Highly recommend it though.

Sorry this is going off topic but seriously, Sweden and Finland are just lovely places.

[Umbra]

I'm originally from a smaller town a few miles north of Stockholm, but I currently live in Karlskrona, which is on the southern coast. I can't speak for Sundsvall, I've never been there, but Stockholm in the summer is definitely one of the most beautiful cities I know of.

[Great Unclean One: VK]

Well this proved interesting.

That and I never knew Umbra was Swedish. Of course I've heard in Sweden and other Nordic states, that they are starting to need code monkeys and other tech related jobs. If things go south here and I can't get a job as a truck hand, I might just know where to head for work.

Provided Canada doesn't also need code monkeys. Yep. Spending 5-9 years working as one in a job I hate just to gain experience.

Beau-f***ing-ful.

[Catterjune]

[quote name='Gue'O VK' timestamp='1352853998' post='6068770']
Hence why I tried signing up for some aid, and hence why my friends (Who just don't get this kinds of things) think I'm leeching off of my country.[/quote]
Why does he even know if you're getting grants or scholarships?

Tell him to sod off and that unless he's planning to pay them, your finances are none of his business.

[Cin]

Can we move this from a topic on education (which it has become) to the original topic again.

I still have to rely on JobSeekers allowance (JSA) and have on and off for the last 4 years (the rest of the time I was on Employment and Support Allowance). It's not for a lack of trying to find a job, I'm a back to work program again with people who aren't bothering, and my part time job is only for 4 hours so my JSA is merely a top up. My parents have worked more or less all their life, so I feel it's only right the family get something back for all their tax contributions. Hopefully next year I can gain full time employment once my college course ends and starting paying tax to payback what I've gotten out (At around £1920 a year from JSA and National Insurance (for example Pensions) shouldn't take long). I'd have gotten off sooner, but I don't want the shock of having to pay more national insurance later in life to make up for a short fall caused by not paying now.

At the end of the day you're going to put far more into the tax system then you ever get out. (If you don't decide to live on benefits...which is just laziness)

The costs of education are one of the reasons I decided to not go University, (although when I got a full time job I wanted to study part-time through the Open University because I'd be able to cover costs). I hate owing anybody money and have only every owed my parents money (over rent) once in my life and hated it.

[Tentacruel]

As someone who is currently getting my entire education paid for by the government, I can honestly say I have no problem with it whatsoever. Seriously, College is bloody expensive.

[Great Unclean One: VK]

Yin, I also hate being in debt, but for different reasons.

Namely in my family, if your in debt to someone, you're their b**** and MUST do everything they tell you until you pay off the debt.

Anyhow, apparently I need to get $1,790 by the middle of December

Oh yay.

Then again, this is before I apply for help.

[Cin]

Never great to owe people money. I owed my building society money, because paypal took money from my account without asking (Thank god that I've saved money elsewhere for emergencies so I avoided more charges).

[Gospel.]

The idea is that making college less expensive 'devalues' your education, making a degree worth less to people or businesses after graduation. I guess to an extent I agree, and I thought I'd never say this, but Rick Perry suggested a policy that freezes college fees for tuition and housing after your first year. I think that is a better idea than simply cutting the cost of education entirely. I don't have to worry about my college tuition because I got that Texas Tomorrow fund where my parents pay for my tuition monthly until I'm 18, but I still have to pay rent for housing which is expensive as s***.

[Lt. Colonel Remo]

[quote name='Umbra' timestamp='1352858123' post='6068857']
Main point: The American system seems to be more about being [i]better[/i] than other people, whereas the Swedish system is about being [i]good[/i] at what you do.
[/quote]
Don't you think schools should provide competitiveness? I mean, American schools do it by the system, but in other regions of the world, it's ingrained into [b]the culture itself[/b].

I also kinda all schools were like the one in Baka to Test ;_;

[Tentacruel]

[quote name='Poo Poo Stain' timestamp='1352932675' post='6069670']
The idea is that making college less expensive 'devalues' your education, making a degree worth less to people or businesses after graduation. I guess to an extent I agree, and I thought I'd never say this, but Rick Perry suggested a policy that freezes college fees for tuition and housing after your first year. I think that is a better idea than simply cutting the cost of education entirely. I don't have to worry about my college tuition because I got that Texas Tomorrow fund where my parents pay for my tuition monthly until I'm 18, but I still have to pay rent for housing which is expensive as s***.
[/quote]

But using that logic, the value of one's education is based on one's wealth. It's somewhat slanted against the poor.

[Gospel.]

[quote name='Comrade TentaSparkle' timestamp='1352945206' post='6069840']
But using that logic, the value of one's education is based on one's wealth. It's somewhat slanted against the poor.
[/quote] Yup, basically. Unless you can get a grant or tuition scholarship.

[Mehmani]

Education should be about equality and providing for people. I disagree with academies, private schools and free schools - state comprehensives are the only way to create a fair environment for all. I don't agree with banning private schools and free schools - just tax them, they are businesses, after all. I do agree with banning academies though - the government should not give the business world their seal of approval if they want to get involved in education our children, the same way healthcare shouldn't be open to the markets.

In the UK, universities were free until a fool named Anthony (not "Tony", he's not your friend, don't shorten his name) Blair decided to screw us all over. Then our government of silver-spoon Rothschild-fawning toffs decided to raise the fees to £27,000 for a full degree at the top universities (that's about $42,880 for you Americans). As you can guess, a lot of poor people can't afford that, even with a loan, so universities are once again becoming filled with students based on wealth rather than talent. Aren't we supposed to be a "meritocracy?"