Wuji/Kongxu Dragons: Monsters with no Type, Level, or Attribute?

[Stan Alda]

[i]Wuji[/i] is the Taoist concept of nothingness, the absence of Yin and Yang. Deep stuff. Considering I've already used astrophysics (Supernova Remnants) and computer science (Vileware) as themes for some of my cards, philosophy might as well be next. "Wuji Dragon" is a peculiar kinda-anti-meta monster that can not only negate a monster's effects, but also zap its Attribute, Type, and Level as well. "Kongxu Dragon" is an Xyz version whose effect doesn't last as long; however, it can attach more Materials to itself.

[i][b]Wuji Dragon[/b][/i]
DARK [only in Deck, hand, Graveyard, and Banished Pile, due to effect]
Level 1 [only in Deck, hand, Graveyard, and Banished Pile, due to effect]
Dragon/Effect
Cannot be Normal Summoned or Set. Must first be Special Summoned by offering 1 LIGHT and 1 DARK monster on your side of the field as a Tribute. As long as this card is on the field: this card is treated as not having an Attribute, Type, or Level. During your Main Phase, you can offer this monster as a Tribute: select 1 face-up monster on your opponent's side of the field; its effects are negated, and it is treated as not having an Attribute, Type, or Level as long as it is face-up on the field.
2600/2600

[b][i]Kongxu Dragon[/i][/b]
DARK
Rank 5
Dragon/Effect
2 Level 5 monsters
As long as this card is on the field: this card is treated as not having an Attribute or Type. Once per turn: You can detach 1 Xyz Material from this card and target 1 monster; its effects are negated, and it is treated as not having an Attribute, Type, or Level until your opponent's next End Phase. Once per turn, during your Main Phase; you can attach 1 Level 5 monster on the your side of the field to this card. When this card is targeted for an attack, while it has no Xyz Materials: Banish this card.
2800/2800

[Saynt]

Or you could make it negate all effects that would target a monster of a specific attribute or type. A monster with no attribute or type would immediately "disappear", as I recall from the rulings on Victory Viper XX03.

[Stan Alda]

[quote name='Saynt' timestamp='1352153503' post='6061571']
Or you could make it negate all effects that would target a monster of a specific attribute or type. A monster with no attribute or type would immediately "disappear", as I recall from the rulings on Victory Viper XX03.
[/quote]
I've had the idea in my head for a while now, but I wasn't sure what an effect like the one I wrote would do, because I know of no precedent for it. Your idea makes more sense, but I'm curious as to what other people think of its current effect, so I'll leave it as it is. Thanks for the advice, though.

[Dr. Cakey]

[img]http://archives.bulbagarden.net/media/upload/c/c3/646Kyurem.png[/img]
Another Wuji dragon.

The effect banishes permanently. So, I guess theoretically there might be a time I would use it but normally it would be better just to keep Wuji Dragon itself.

[quote name='Saynt' timestamp='1352153503' post='6061571']
Or you could make it negate all effects that would target a monster of a specific attribute or type. A monster with no attribute or type would immediately "disappear", as I recall from the rulings on Victory Viper XX03.
[/quote]
That's not even remotely similar to what Victory Viper's rulings say.

[Stan Alda]

[quote name='Dr. Cakey Arclight' timestamp='1352208766' post='6062097']
[img]http://archives.bulbagarden.net/media/upload/c/c3/646Kyurem.png[/img]
Another Wuji dragon.

The effect banishes permanently. So, I guess theoretically there might be a time I would use it but normally it would be better just to keep Wuji Dragon itself.
[/quote]
I did have Kyurem partially in mind. Would it be better if it was just offered as a Tribute, as opposed to being banished?

[Dr. Cakey]

[quote name='Stan Alda' timestamp='1352210511' post='6062109']
I did have Kyurem partially in mind. Would it be better if it was just offered as a Tribute, as opposed to being banished?
[/quote]
Well, yes, that would be better. But basically, why would I summon this instead of [s]Black Luster Soldier[/s] Chaos Sorcerer? Making the target's Type and Attribute disappear is marginally interesting, but in how many circumstances is that going to matter. Negating effects is better but do I want to banish a LIGHT and DARK [i]and[/i] dump a [i]2500 ATK[/i] monster just to negate a monster's effects. I can do the same thing only better with Fiendish Chain.

[Stan Alda]

[quote name='Dr. Cakey Arclight' timestamp='1352218211' post='6062192']
Well, yes, that would be better. But basically, why would I summon this instead of [s]Black Luster Soldier[/s] Chaos Sorcerer? Making the target's Type and Attribute disappear is marginally interesting, but in how many circumstances is that going to matter. Negating effects is better but do I want to banish a LIGHT and DARK [i]and[/i] dump a [i]2500 ATK[/i] monster just to negate a monster's effects. I can do the same thing only better with Fiendish Chain.
[/quote][list]
[*]Chaos Sorcerer is Limited.
[*]The Attribute/Type negation is designed to scramble Attribute/Type synergy; it isn't as prominent as it was before, but it's still important. Negating Levels is even more important for jamming Synchro or Xyz Summoning.
[*]I'll change the costs or add some way to revive it. I partially based this on Light and Darkness Dragon (which I loathe), so doing the latter wouldn't be too out of the ordinary.
[/list]

[Stan Alda]

I (marginally) reduced its costs and made its effect more persistent. Is anyone else interested?

[Bahamut - Envoy of the End]

Interesting. But...

Offering two monsters. Ancient OCG but more to the point, effectively an advance summon? Of [i]two[/i] monsters? Specific monsters? Eww...

(I also feel this cards printed level should be 7 or 8 even if negated afterwards. Because Level 1 looks crap on the card. And because Doggy?!)

Offering (I can't get used to that) to do a Veiler. Ewwwww...

[Stan Alda]

[quote name='Majestic Star Bahamut' timestamp='1352339526' post='6063554']
Interesting. But...

Offering two monsters. Ancient OCG but more to the point, effectively an advance summon? Of [i]two[/i] monsters? Specific monsters? Eww...

(I also feel this cards printed level should be 7 or 8 even if negated afterwards. Because Level 1 looks crap on the card. And because Doggy?!)

Offering (I can't get used to that) to do a Veiler. Ewwwww...
[/quote]
My OCG has always been out-of-date. As for the Level 1 thing, even if you negate its effects with Skill Drain, it can attack when with Gravity Bind or Level Limit cards are on the field. Based on my wording, the monster's effects are negated while it is on the field, as opposed to Veiler's End Phase. And what's Doggy?

[Bahamut - Envoy of the End]

[quote name='Stan Alda' timestamp='1352378817' post='6063759']
My OCG has always been out-of-date. As for the Level 1 thing, even if you negate its effects with Skill Drain, it can attack when with Gravity Bind or Level Limit cards are on the field. Based on my wording, the monster's effects are negated while it is on the field, as opposed to Veiler's End Phase. And what's Doggy?
[/quote]

Suggesting someone still runs Gravity Bind?

[img]http://images1.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20120928191106/yugioh/images/c/c5/WhereArfThou-REDU-EN-C-UE.png[/img]

Sorry, thought it was Doggy?!

[Stan Alda]

[quote name='Majestic Star Bahamut' timestamp='1352394685' post='6063874']
Suggesting someone still runs Gravity Bind?

[img]http://images1.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20120928191106/yugioh/images/c/c5/WhereArfThou-REDU-EN-C-UE.png[/img]

[/quote]
Wuji avoids [i]anything[/i] that restricts high-level monsters; Gravity Bind was just one that sprang to mind. "Where Arf Thou?" doesn't work because it's treated as [i]not having a Level [/i](assuming that's possible) while it's on the field. Using WAT with only Wuji on the field is impossible, and WAT would just hurt you if you searched out Wuji, because it can't be Normal Summoned. In short, Wuji Dragon is made for getting around Level restrictions and stopping Synchro/Xyz summoning; screwing up type/attribute support is a "bonus".
On another point, I'm thinking about adding a marginally more powerful Xyz version. Do you have any advice for that?

[Stan Alda]

Added "Kongxu Dragon", an improved Xyz version.

[Bahamut - Envoy of the End]

[quote name='Stan Alda' timestamp='1352408871' post='6064017']
Wuji avoids [i]anything[/i] that restricts high-level monsters; Gravity Bind was just one that sprang to mind. "Where Arf Thou?" doesn't work because it's treated as [i]not having a Level [/i](assuming that's possible) while it's on the field. Using WAT with only Wuji on the field is impossible, and WAT would just hurt you if you searched out Wuji, because it can't be Normal Summoned. In short, Wuji Dragon is made for getting around Level restrictions and stopping Synchro/Xyz summoning; screwing up type/attribute support is a "bonus".
On another point, I'm thinking about adding a marginally more powerful Xyz version. Do you have any advice for that?
[/quote]

When you control a level 1 monster; [b]ADD 1 LEVEL 1 MONSTER FROM YOUR DECK TO YOUR HAND.[/b]..

Of course you'd search it out with that, 2000 damage is nothing. That's a Solemn after all.

New card is reasonable. But where does it attach from? Field, Hand, Grave? If graveyard, the banishing effect is never ever going to be applied.

[Stan Alda]

I buffed Wuji's ATK and DEF to 2600, and specified that Kongxu can attach more monsters from your side of the field. As for "Where Arf Thou", it [i]can[/i] search out Wuji, but because it can only be Special Summoned (it's a Semi-Nomi), you have to take the 2000 damage. Remember, [i]Wuji is treated as not having a Level while it is on the field[/i], like an Xyz monster. I'll try to clarify it in the lore.