Are you image first or concept first when creating cards?

[Shinobi Phoenix]

I noticed there seems to be a interesting ratio between the members here when making cards that a lot seem to be making cards based on the image they have on hand or find [b]as opposed to [/b]members who go exactly opposite directly that they create very interesting concepts and effects and aesthetics to match, and then look for images that closest match.

I suppose this is because this forum is very image-focused instead of card focused (noticed by the fact that cards with images get comments even though the image is useless except to draw the eyes unless you print it out and put it in a sleeve and play with it for real) and cards with just text hardly get any comments at all even though the whole point to this site is to comment on card concepts and effects, etc and we all have to make some effort to make decent cards, regardless of the art. (Nuff said on that).




For me, I go concept first. Concepts are free to be as interesting as you want and by nature are the most creative and least restricted as far as what you can think of as well as powerful in uncommon ways. The problem of course is that if you cannot draw for yourself, you will likely not have any options at all for the card images if it is honestly that original or high-concept. Only close to concept images or just to make the proxy at all.


Going image first has the advantage of being proxy-ready from the start, since the image is set, but it locks you down to trying to make an effect or concept to fit what the picture is instead of what you really had in mind -- unless you don't care about complains of bad art or "How the hell does that fit the effect" comments. Of course, if that's the case, you might as well gone concept first.

[Northern Sage]

Alternates. Aesthetics are usually more important for me though.

[~British Soul~]

Most of the time I go with the concept first then visualise what the cards will look like as I create them.

[D.A._Sakuyamon]

Image first because then I'v got something to base off effect wise.

[Shinobi Phoenix]

I mean for myself, I have at least 5 or 6 different separate files for Card Creations.

[b]- 1 is for completely original ideas that aren't usually attached to a card theme in the REAL game.[/b]
--- These are only proxied to such a degree as it's hard to find images that appropriate match what I have in my head. Thus, low-completion rate for proxies but high completion rate for the cards themselves.

[b]- 1 is based on fixing anime cards that were never released in real life (or released in Tag Force games) and making them real-life ready.[/b]
--- Obviously, these are INSANELY easy to finish because the image already exist in some form, whether card form in the anime, proxied already on TV-Tokyo's YGO site (the Card of The Week images) or images from the Tag Force games. The only work is remaking the effects to fit the real game better and make them worth playing without breaking them or changing the cards. Tragically, these cannot be posted on this forum even as Pop-Culture to my knowledge.

[b]1 is based on EXPANDING ideas from the anime or anime card concepts that were never released.[/b]
--- Similar to Original Ideas except the concept already exist, so it's still about image and effects. The images won't exist (unless you want to a lot of Photoshopping of the existing cards and even then will look ugly. Also very low completion except cards themselves. This is also where I write for the few non-anime real life themes and teams that I choose to add expansions on, but again, I'd need to be able to find art that matches the original teams well enough or do it myself or have someone else draw for me. That makes me sad as I really wish to finish the proxies for my Gravekeepers, but let's just say I can't just grab a bunch of images of guys in black robes for my own Gravekeeper expansions.


I also have files for my Sentai based HERO cards (yes as in Super Sentai), that is way easier to proxy and not too hard to get images for if you're willing to make your own screenshots from episodes or promotional images. Also, since the cards are only based on Sentai as a concept (actually it was based on a joke I made about GX years ago that turned into a very serious project), not using the names or people or trying to be the characters, so they [u][b]DO NOT[/b][/u] count as Pop Culture if I ever choose to post them here.

I also have files for my Konami Legacies cards, which are cards based on other Konami games and characters (as we all know, Konami likes to make their games and characters that are more obscure or lesser known or more popular only in Japan into characters from games and characters. Easier to proxy than other projects but images can be harder to find unless you just use game graphics, plus these would be counted as Pop Culture, which is tragic as they aren't joke cards at all and are just as serious as Konami's own cards based on their games.




So the lesson is, I feel a bit of an emptiness at not having my true ideas that are all mine finished, let alone to show off to others because I have a lot of ideas I put a lot of time and scrutiny into. How many of you are having that problem?

[Simping For Hina]

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[/quote]This.

[Darth Revan of the Sith]

Image first.

[Dr. Cakey]

Why is this in Comments & Suggestions?

Usually I start with a concept. The main trouble I find with that is you can end up making lots of "useful" cards rather than original ones if you go that route. Lots of "If you control X, you can Special Summon this card from your hand. Once per turn, you can do Y" and such. So often I start with a name or an [i]idea [/i]of what the image is.

[FTW (For The Wynn)]

I do it both ways. Sometimes, I'll come across an image and I come up with an effect for it. Other times, I will come up with just an effect and then I go off looking for a pic to match with my creation.

[Shinobi Phoenix]

[quote name='Dr. Cakey Arclight' timestamp='1350950741' post='6051135']
Why is this in Comments & Suggestions?

Usually I start with a concept. The main trouble I find with that is you can end up making lots of "useful" cards rather than original ones if you go that route. Lots of "If you control X, you can Special Summon this card from your hand. Once per turn, you can do Y" and such. So often I start with a name or an [i]idea [/i]of what the image is.
[/quote]


To answer both statements: I'm assuming this sort of thread goes here when talking about helping members improve their own skills as well as helping each other by understanding how someone else thinks rather than just judge something solely on how they think and projecting it. Not to mention, it shows the schism between quality of the cards, where cards with high-standard of quality end up and why people comment on some things and not on others. We have had constant complaints about people who don't comment in the Written Cards thread.

People who go concept/idea first obviously have it written out before any image is settled on, which means they have a lot of ideas show but can't put it in Realistic Cards (which btw -- is such a ironic misnomer of a title). So for all these quickly-collecting ideas, they put them in Written Cards... only to receive no feedback and become disheartened. It's rather negative approach instead of a enforcement of the pursuit of excellence.

People who go image first tend to have a lot of cards, but not a lot of originality or aesthetics and (sorry to say) seem more rushed out to get comments, which they unfortunately do, whether they are actually helping to IMPROVE the quality of their skills or just re-enforce going forward doing the same thing (usually the latter). Too much of a push on images and not enough on the only thing about a card that matters: The stats and effects. Since images get comments, we rush that out to get comments but don't spend enough time working out the card itself vs someone who goes concept first and spends (hopefully) enough time on it and then puts an image together which in the end doesn't matter except as eyecandy.



So, since this is community site, thus, we're supposed to help each other, not just get comments and I thought to ask how people think, they we get an idea of how we members are and if we understand each other's thinking, we can see things from different angles.


----

Also, you shouldn't say you do something ("I" ) and then say other people ("you") also do it in such a broad matter. Not everyone has that "problem" going from concept to creation. The same could be said of going from an "idea" to creation or "image" to creation because you are focusing more one thing over the other factors (theme, usefulness, mechanics, etc.). Really it can all be fixed by putting more time into the creation before calling it complete. Also, a concept is still an idea (just more structured by still general), so those aren't really separate either.



I have a few suggestion topics I have been thinking of for quality improvement that others could feed off of each other with.


I heard I was the old man around here by comparison to the rest (also why I post less), so I'm just generally going to think very differently than the others.

[Mehmani]

Bing-bong, incoming news: the system of posting cards on YCM is flawed and we know it already.

My main effort when I took over RC was to change the way cards are reviewed, placing the emphasis more firmly on viability. And I did it - RC has changed. It's not perfect, but I'm still working on it. People seem to focus more on building from the concept upwards, and that I'm proud of.