"Out of Tune": Because I Don't Like Synchros Very Much

[Stan Alda]

This is simply designed to prevent players from getting Synchros on the field. No big deal.

[i][b]Out of Tune[/b][/i]
SPELL/Continuous
As long as this card is on the field, both players must use at least 2 Tuner Monsters to Synchro Summon a Synchro Monster.

[.Rai]

Well, isn't this quite vague.

Does this mean that Synchro Monsters that must be summoned with 1 Tuner + 1 or more non-Tuner monsters cannot be summoned because of requirements (leaving only some Accel Synchros and also Gottoms as viable)? This is what it implies.

Does this mean that you are completely changing the rules around and must use 2 Tuner monsters along with the standard non-Tuner monsters? You'd have to change the text completely. In which case that it's impossible to word anyway without veering into unknown territory or stealing MtG lingo.

In either way, it's irrational hate of a mechanic made for little reason. Not very good design to make direct hosers, because you are directly trying to hurt a game when the game simply wants to improve on itself. This is through [b]indirect[/b] solutions. Introducing Xyzs was a good example, as it takes up space in Extra Decks, it coincides with marketing plans, and adds a new dimension to the game.

[Stan Alda]

[quote]Well, isn't this quite vague.

Does this mean that Synchro Monsters that must be summoned with 1 Tuner + 1 or more non-Tuner monsters cannot be summoned because of requirements (leaving only some Accel Synchros and also Gottoms as viable)? This is what it implies.

Does this mean that you are completely changing the rules around and must use 2 Tuner monsters along with the standard non-Tuner monsters? You'd have to change the text completely. In which case that it's impossible to word anyway without veering into unknown territory or stealing MtG lingo.[/quote]

I intended it to mean that Synchro Summoning required offering 1 more Tuner than normal. If you wanted to Synchro into Stardust, for example, you'd need 2 Tuners and the non-tuners. I considered adding a clause that would make the second Tuner not count toward the level requirement, but upon further inspection, you're right; the OCG would be nigh-impossible.

[quote]In either way, it's irrational hate of a mechanic made for little reason. Not very good design to make direct hosers, because you are directly trying to hurt a game when the game simply wants to improve on itself. This is through [b]indirect[/b] solutions. Introducing Xyzs was a good example, as it takes up space in Extra Decks, it coincides with marketing plans, and adds a new dimension to the game.[/quote]
I think you misunderstood my intent. I'm not trying to hurt the game as a whole with this, just slow Synchro Summoning. If I [i]really[/i] wanted to hurt the game, I'd change this to hampering anything from the Extra Deck--Fusions, Synchros, and Xyzs. I actually considered that for a while, but I didn't make it because that would really screw the current meta. Synchros are a part of the meta, sure, but this is a (poorly-designed, I'll admit) counter that can be easily stopped with whatever Spell-destroying card you wish, and it affects both players. If this were to see wide use for some stupid reason, wouldn't that make Xyzs that much more appealing? (I'm out of my mind for saying this.) Yes, my dislike of Synchros and Xyzs isn't entirely rational, but assuming there are no other options for bosses aside from Synchros and thus assuming this card totally breaks the game is balderdash and poppycock. (Like I said, out of my mind.)

tl,dr: I agree with the effect being vague and hard to fix, but assuming that A] I want to entirely kill Synchros and B] this card would entirely kill Synchros is a bit of a stretch.

Wow, that venting felt good. Hard day's night, I suppose.

[Scrooge]

I find this attempt very interesting. I would word it differently, however:

[i]As long as this card is on the field: each time a Synchro Monster would be Synchro Summoned; Tribute 1 extra Tuner Monster (This affects both players).[/i]

[Dr. Cakey]

[quote name='Scrooge' timestamp='1349127563' post='6035892']
I find this attempt very interesting. I would word it differently, however:

[i]As long as this card is on the field: each time a Synchro Monster would be Synchro Summoned; Tribute 1 extra Tuner Monster (This affects both players).[/i]
[/quote]
I [i]might[/i] be able to come up with a worse way to word it. [i]Maybe.[/i]

[quote name='Stan Alda' timestamp='1349123277' post='6035822']
I intended it to mean that Synchro Summoning required offering 1 more Tuner than normal. If you wanted to Synchro into Stardust, for example, you'd need 2 Tuners and the non-tuners. I considered adding a clause that would make the second Tuner not count toward the level requirement, but upon further inspection, you're right; the OCG would be nigh-impossible.[/quote]
[b]Here's the effect with the Tuner counting as one of the Synchro Materials:[/b]
"Each player must use 1 additional Tuner monster as Synchro Material for a Synchro Summon."
(This one, I think, is pretty unclear)

[b]Here's the effect with the Tuner NOT counting as one of the Synchro Materials:[/b]
"When a player would Synchro Summon, in addition to the Synchro Material Monsters, they must also send to the Graveyard 1 Tuner monster they control."

[b]Here's a second case where the Tuner counts as one of the Synchro Materials:[/b]
"Each player must use 2 Tuner monsters instead of 1 to Synchro Summon.

[quote name='Stan Alda' timestamp='1349123277' post='6035822']
I think you misunderstood my intent. I'm not trying to hurt the game as a whole with this, just slow Synchro Summoning. If I [i]really[/i] wanted to hurt the game, I'd change this to hampering anything from the Extra Deck--Fusions, Synchros, and Xyzs. I actually considered that for a while, but I didn't make it because that would really screw the current meta. Synchros are a part of the meta, sure, but this is a (poorly-designed, I'll admit) counter that can be easily stopped with whatever Spell-destroying card you wish, and it affects both players. If this were to see wide use for some stupid reason, wouldn't that make Xyzs that much more appealing? (I'm out of my mind for saying this.) Yes, my dislike of Synchros and Xyzs isn't entirely rational, but assuming there are no other options for bosses aside from Synchros and thus assuming this card totally breaks the game is balderdash and poppycock. (Like I said, out of my mind.)

tl,dr: I agree with the effect being vague and hard to fix, but assuming that A] I want to entirely kill Synchros and B] this card would entirely kill Synchros is a bit of a stretch.

Wow, that venting felt good. Hard day's night, I suppose.
[/quote]
Your underlying logic is unsound. Hitting the Extra Deck as a whole would be cool, because it doesn't target specific decks. Hitting Xyz Monsters also is fine, because the extreme majority of current decks use them. But very few decks currently use Synchro Monsters, so making anti-support for them is just being a dick. A couple years ago, every deck used Synchro Monsters, so making mass anti-Synchro cards made sense. But they've been replaced. In general, making anti-x cards just reeks of "waaaaah, i lost this game sux".

[Scrooge]

Ehh you're right. Or, if you wish to also affect Synchro Monsters that require 2 tuners to begin with...

[i]For any Synchro Summon; 1 extra Tuner monster must be used as a Synchro Material.[/i]

You're welcome to word it worse.