"Let's Make Balanced <Alt Win Condition>" Threads Should Be Banned

[Agro]

Well maybe not all of them.

But let's face it. There's no reason for people to be trying to make more "balanced" versions of Exodia or Final Countdown. First off they never make them balanced, and in some cases, make them worse.

More importantly, they always forget to remember the most important part about Exodia and Final Countdown: They don't take in any player to player interactions. Seriously, take a look at any of the retrains you can. Every last one of them ignores that fact.

You see, you can't actually remake exodia with player interactions. If you do, then it's not even Exodia anymore. That's why I'm calling for any sort of threads about "retrains" or "more balanced" Exodias or Final Countdown, or any alt win condition, if possible, to be against the rules and liable to be locked.



PS. I think the most impressive thing about this suggestion is that we don't actually need an admin for it.

[Just Crouton]

Support, but I also want to add to this, I've noticed that members have tried to "rebalanced" non-alt win, broken cards like Pot of Greed and Graceful Charity, and I think members who make threads like that should be required to show the original card (copy + paste image or lore from the YGO wiki), explain their changes and present an argument why their "rebalanced" version is more fair for the game than the banned original.

But yes, alternate win card "rebalancing" shouldn't be allowed because it's still an alternate win condition and CC shouldn't promote alternate win conditions (i.e. "You win the duel/match") [b]ever.[/b]

[FTW (For The Wynn)]

Before I say whether I support or not, I just want some clarity. I may have misread or not noticed you say this, so forgive it if this is a stupid question that has been answered.

Does this mean any card that offers a "win condition"? Or just the ones that retrain previous "win conditions" such as exodia to make them "balanced"?

[Agro]

[quote name='GodWynn' timestamp='1347927983' post='6026949']
Does this mean any card that offers a "win condition"? Or just the ones that retrain previous "win conditions" such as exodia to make them "balanced"?
[/quote]Preferably, any alternate win condition that does not care about player interaction.

But no, this thread is simply asking for retrains of non-P2P interaction Alt Wins to be banned.

[FTW (For The Wynn)]

Then I support this thread.

I don't want to outright say that an alt win condition is therefore by definition bad. Because there might be one that is actually amazing that just hasn't been considered yet. Most of them are stupid, that I agree with, and that the idea of alt win conditions should be discouraged is a good one, but the banning of them seems a bit extreme. However, banning the retrained versions is a good idea for reasons already given.

[Lunar Origins]

I'm afraid the whole notion of banning discussion on an entire theoretical thread type is stupid, and un-needed. If you don't like it, then just ignore it and move on with your life.

[Just Crouton]

[quote name='✖C.C.✖' timestamp='1347932068' post='6026996']
I'm afraid the whole notion of banning discussion on an entire theoretical thread type is stupid, and un-needed. If you don't like it, then just ignore it and move on with your life.
[/quote]

The problem is that the theoretical thread type is about remaking cards that have the effect of instant winning games, which shouldn't exist, into cards that are more fair...but they still instant win games. You can't balance a card that instant wins and make it so it still instant wins. It's still unbalanced, still bad for the game, and still lets you win the game outside the game's intended objective of depleting the opponent's Life Points.

There is no intelligent discussion to come out of threads like that.

[Agro]

What Crouton said. One side arguing how bad the ideas are with another side trying to come up with more bad ideas isn't a discussion.

[Nicο]

Even though I don't really make cards anymore, I understand this. So I'll support.

[Stan Alda]

I'd be careful with this idea. I hate Exodia and Final Countdown as much as anyone, but what about Vennominaga? It has an alt-win condition, but is it similarly broken? I don't think it is; it's too slow compared to current Xyz and Synchro strategies. Exodia and FC are stupid cards, but I don't think that banning the concept is really necessary. Some whiz kid could think of some really cool alt-win...hell, maybe I'll try it. It's difficult to make a balanced alt-win, but I don't think it's impossible, and I don't think we should ban an entire type of thread based solely on its difficulty.

[Agro]

[quote name='Stan Alda' timestamp='1347968949' post='6027218']
I'd be careful with this idea. I hate Exodia and Final Countdown as much as anyone, but what about Vennominaga? It has an alt-win condition, but is it similarly broken? I don't think it is; it's too slow compared to current Xyz and Synchro strategies. Exodia and FC are stupid cards, but I don't think that banning the concept is really necessary. Some whiz kid could think of some really cool alt-win...hell, maybe I'll try it. It's difficult to make a balanced alt-win, but I don't think it's impossible, and I don't think we should ban an entire type of thread based solely on its difficulty.
[/quote]Vennominaga requires that you inflict battle damage with it 3 times before you win. Which automatically requires you to have player interactions. Even though it's slow, the basic idea that you need to attack your Opponent makes it a much better idea than "let's play with ourselves till we get excited and win" cards like Exodia and Final Countdown.

As I said previously:
[quote name='Agro' timestamp='1347929909' post='6026974']
this thread is simply asking for retrains of non-P2P interaction Alt Wins to be banned.
[/quote]We're not banning every single alt win. We're just banning retrains of the ones that try to balance the non-P2P ones because they never do.

[Stan Alda]

[quote name='Agro' timestamp='1347975117' post='6027253']
Vennominaga requires that you inflict battle damage with it 3 times before you win. Which automatically requires you to have player interactions. Even though it's slow, the basic idea that you need to attack your Opponent makes it a much better idea than "let's play with ourselves till we get excited and win" cards like Exodia and Final Countdown.

As I said previously:
We're not banning every single alt win. We're just banning retrains of the ones that try to balance the non-P2P ones because they never do.
[/quote]
I think I understand better now. Incidentally, this gave me an idea for my re-done Supernova Remnants...heh heh heh...

[Synchronized]

Support I guess.

[Darth Revan of the Sith]

[quote name='✖C.C.✖' timestamp='1347932068' post='6026996']
I'm afraid the whole notion of banning discussion on an entire theoretical thread type is stupid, and un-needed. If you don't like it, then just ignore it and move on with your life.
[/quote]
This is the internet.
We don't ignore things we don't like.
We make sure we pay attention to it so we have a reason to be pissed off and then we make it known we're pissed off about it.