If YuGiOh had a "Standard" Format

[Flame Dragon]

http://www.wizards.com/Magic/Magazine/Article.aspx?x=mtg/daily/mm/207&date=08/06/2012


So, what would happen to yugioh if they took a page out of other card games and introduced a rotating format where the only cards legal are the ones from the last x sets.

[HSektor]

Wind-up and Inzektors would be even better, Rabbit would be dead, Dark Worlds and Samurais would be innexistents. I DUNNO LOL

[Blake]

I honestly hate this type of play. While Konami manipulates the banlist, this just says "buy or gtfo" in and of itself, unlike a banlist that should do otherwise.

[Simping For Hina]

It works quite well in MtG and is one of the more popular ways to play too.
And the sets rotate at a desirable rate, which keeps interest.
It goes.

Set 1> Set 2> Set 3> Core Set > Set 1> Set 2> Set 3> Core Set > New Set/Old block and core rotate.

[HSektor]

[quote name='Yuzuru Otonashi' timestamp='1344310676' post='5999695']
I honestly hate this type of play. While Konami manipulates the banlist, this just says "buy or gtfo" in and of itself, unlike a banlist that should do otherwise.
[/quote]

It's not really like that, if your card rotates out from Standard, you can still use it in the "normal" format.

[Simping For Hina]

[quote name='HSektor' timestamp='1344311007' post='5999703']
It's not really like that, if your card rotates out from Standard, you can still use it in the "normal" format.
[/quote]Modern, Legacy, Casual, Block Constructed, EDH, Vintage. Which one is normal?

[Airride]

So newer cards become more expensive because of people playing the new-only format
And older cards become cheaper because of it.

I wouldn't mind, though this would likely be a side thing.

[Hasemeow]

I'm actually a fan of the "standard format". Yes, the idea of having to pay to keep up is a bit sad, however most if not all players only hold that rule for tournaments. In MTG for example, when you're not in a tournament, almost no one has a problem with you playing out of cycle decks/cards. Now, this would be a good thing for yugioh. Why? Because most of the broken decks in existence Wouldn't be tournament legal. You would have to deal with the last 2 or 3 packs, or just stick to casual.

[Flame Dragon]

[quote name='Hasemeow' timestamp='1344313467' post='5999731']
I'm actually a fan of the "standard format". Yes, the idea of having to pay to keep up is a bit sad, however most if not all players only hold that rule for tournaments. In MTG for example, when you're not in a tournament, almost no one has a problem with you playing out of cycle decks/cards. Now, this would be a good thing for yugioh. Why? Because most of the broken decks in existence Wouldn't be tournament legal. You would have to deal with the last 2 or 3 packs, or just stick to casual.
[/quote]
If this was brough over to yugioh it would still need a decent sized card pool and with yugioh sets being 1/3 or 1/2 the size of MTG sets they would still likely go back 3 years to make a decent standard environment. Also, they would likely include some way to get powerful cards like Mirror Force and what not in their version of a core set.

[Zeppeli Gyro Supreme]

No more Heavy Storm, no more MST, no more Torrential Tribute, no more Solemn Judgment. Unless you count cards printed in Structure and Starter decks.

[Simping For Hina]

[quote name='slayer_supreme' timestamp='1344315394' post='5999754']
No more Heavy Storm, no more MST, no more Torrential Tribute, no more Solemn Judgment. Unless you count cards printed in Structure and Starter decks.
[/quote]Core sets.

[Flame Dragon]

[quote name='slayer_supreme' timestamp='1344315394' post='5999754']
No more Heavy Storm, no more MST, no more Torrential Tribute, no more Solemn Judgment. Unless you count cards printed in Structure and Starter decks.
[/quote]
As said in the post above and in my other post the creation of a standard format would also mean the creation of a product that feeds various staples into the format like those you said. The premade decks wouldn't count towards this.

[JadenxAtemYAOI]

I would take others' advice here and quit playing. Tournaments would be too predictable and end up like Smogon for Pokemon.

[Simping For Hina]

[quote name='JadenxAtemYAOI' timestamp='1344316198' post='5999771']
I would take others' advice here and quit playing. Tournaments would be too predictable and end up like Smogon for Pokemon.
[/quote]
Not really. Even in standard tournys for mtg, you have certain decks that top. They all have different variants and decks normally would change a little bit as a new block comes along.


Aren't Tournaments in the format now pretty predictable anyways?

[Sleepy]

I'm all in for the idea.
-Yugioh Decks already force you to upgrade to a newer Deck rather than upgrade your Decks if you want to be competitive.
-Archtypes is their way of maintaining a somewhat controlled enviroment (doesn't have to be balanced, just controlled), but that is restrictive when it comes to Deck building. Maybe not enough to make most complain, but it IS restrictive, and with a Standard format in mind instead, archtypes might not be such a frequent alternative for designers.
-The rotation could result in enviroments that allow certain banned cards to be used without such abuse, maybe even at 3.
-If it's not the only format to be, it still keeps cards desireble for other formats that woulld still be played.

Sounds amusing.

[Flame Dragon]

[quote name='JadenxAtemYAOI' timestamp='1344316198' post='5999771']
I would take others' advice here and quit playing. Tournaments would be too predictable and end up like Smogon for Pokemon.
[/quote]
I haven't played yugioh in ages, but I'm sure if I read up on it and went to an event this weekend at my LGS I can walk in predicting what more than 60% of the field will be playing. Really the only time things truely become harder to predict is, as said in the article linked above, when cards are taken out of the format because it is much easier to build in an environment with knowns than with unknowns. Yugioh's banlist take away some cards and I'm willing to guess that is the time when deck diversity is greatest, but the number, and therefore the change that comes with it, is nothing compared to what happens when a few sets are taken away.

[quote name='Sleepy' timestamp='1344317195' post='5999784']
-If it's not the only format to be, it still keeps cards desireble for other formats that woulld still be played.
[/quote]
But of course. MTG has 3 main formats with varying levels of sets allowed. If this was announced for yugoh this today it would be a very bad move to not support the multiple formats because of the obvious backlash that would come with this. And as you seem to be getting at, whats the harm in creating a new way to play yugioh.

[Simping For Hina]

[quote name='Flame Dragon' timestamp='1344317697' post='5999788']
I haven't played yugioh in ages, but I'm sure if I read up on it and went to an event this weekend at my LGS I can walk in predicting what more than 60% of the field will be playing. Really the only time things truely become harder to predict is, as said in the article linked above, when cards are taken out of the format because it is much easier to build in an environment with knowns than with unknowns. Yugioh's banlist take away some cards and I'm willing to guess that is the time when deck diversity is greatest, but the number, and therefore the change that comes with it, is nothing compared to what happens when a few sets are taken away.


But of course. MTG has 3 main formats with varying levels of sets allowed. If this was announced for yugoh this today it would be a very bad move to not support the multiple formats because of the obvious backlash that would come with this. And as you seem to be getting at, whats the harm in creating a new way to play yugioh.
[/quote]This is how EDH came to be.

[Citrine Serpent]

The rotating out would cause rarity bumps to end unless lolkonami, and 2nd market prices in general would fall, which is arguably more than a fair trade off.

iirc in magic you can still use a version of a card from and old print if it's been reprinted within the rotation, right?

[Simping For Hina]

[quote name='Citrine Serpent' timestamp='1344318285' post='5999792']
The rotating out would cause rarity bumps to end unless lolkonami, and 2nd market prices in general would fall, which is arguably more than a fair trade off.

iirc in magic you can still use a version of a card from and old print if it's been reprinted within the rotation, right?
[/quote]Yes.

[Mysty]

The only problem is that Yugioh doesn't structure its sets into specific blocks.

If yugioh wanted to implement a rotation system, it would have to do the following:
• Make part of their booster packs basic reprints.
• Keep all of an archetype's support within 3-4 sets.
• Call a judgment upon the legality of new cards in Structure Decks and Promo cards. A judgment would also have to be applied to TCG-Exclusives and OCG-Imports, because the card differences would result in very different formats, like they already do.
If they follow MtG's lead on cards not released in core sets, then the Structure Decks would probably just be "Eternal-only" legal. But the Structure Decks are generally good if bought in 3's, so business would continue as usual for Advanced Eternal Format.

EDIT: A good thing about a Rotation Format is that, if a good design team is behind it, it can very much decrease power creep. Did lolnami screw up with making a broken card? Okay, ban it in the rotating format if necessary and make all the next sets underpowered. Eventually the broken cards will rotate out and the rotation format will be left underpowered.

[.Rai]

[spoiler=On the Hypothetical of changing YGO to rotation]You can't say rotation is BAD. Both Pokémon and MtG use the system extremely well and they are both on two separate sides of the TCG spectrum. You could easily [b]adapt[/b] YGO to become a rotation game. It wouldn't actually change much really: Already, the newest few decks are basically meta, and rotation wouldn't change that. You're already forced to adapt to the new meta or fail (because of endless new staples, new archetypes, a new meta and new banlists). Also, please, a predictable meta? Try playing in a rotating meta.

The main interesting consequences would be:

- Staples would change
- Much, much less power creep (and increasing the longevity of the game as a whole)

And, technically, YGO does structure sets into blocks, 'Series'. Recently, they've been putting them into blocks of 4 (but it's been different in the past). Providing they keep that format of '4 in a block', it should be fine.

So an ideal Standard format would be the past two Series, and any special sets released during that time. Obviously, at the moment, the meta's gonna be screwed up only because of the insane amount of awfully designed archetypes there are.[/spoiler]

But, I'd prefer YGO as a banlist game even though that rotation is really interesting. Only since, well, a banlist works just as well for YGO.

[Sleepy]

I don't see the harm if it wouldn't replace the current way, but rather just introduces a secondary option.

Though yeah, Yugioh's top Decks are mostly new cards and some basic staples, which means that Yugioh's designers kind of, suck.

[Lonk]

I actually like this idea. Don't forget the reprint sets also count in the series sets.

[-Lightray Daedalus-]

What is interesting to add is that the format can be easily shaped AROUND those so called core Sets...reprinting different Staples etc every core set can extremelly change what Deck can be made and the way the game is played

[Agro]

ITT: Yu-Gi-Oh! doesn't already force you to buy to keep up just by making broken cards.