Chaos Number 30

[Blake]

[center]Number C30: Acid Golem of Destruction Night[/center]
[center]WATER[/center]
[center]R3[/center]
[center]Rock/Effect[/center]
[center]3 Level 3 WATER Monsters[/center]
[center]You can also Xyz Summon this card by using a "Number 30: Acid Golem of Destruction" you control as the Xyz Material, ignoring its effect. (Xyz Materials attached to that monster also become Xyz Materials on this card.) You cannot Xyz Summon other monsters during the turn this card is Xyz Summoned. Monsters you control cannot declare an attack. During each of your Standby Phases: Pay 2000 Life Points (This is not optional). If you cannot, you lose the duel. You cannot Special Summon monsters. You can detach all Xyz Materials from this card; Switch control of this card to your opponent. You must have 1000 Life Points or less to activate and to resolve this effect.[/center]
[center]3000/3000[/center]

[center]I wanna up the forced pay, but feel like 2500 is too strange and 3000 is too much. I'm also conflicted on the whole "You cannot Xyz Summon other monsters during the turn this card is Xyz Summoned" thing... With it, it seems worthless. Without it, it seems stupid to TGU GG.[/center]

[center]Also, rep if you get the reasoning behind the name.[/center]

[Yankee]

Problem...Kind of like Kristya, I don't think you'd be able to even summon him over an Acid Golem, given the one sided no special summon effect.

[Blake]

[quote name='Cifer' timestamp='1343968043' post='5996031']
Problem...Kind of like Kristya, I don't think you'd be able to even summon him over an Acid Golem, given the one sided no special summon effect.
[/quote][quote name='Yuzuru Otonashi' timestamp='1343967753' post='5996027']
[left]You can also Xyz Summon this card by using a "Number 30: Acid Golem of Destruction" you control as the Xyz Material, [b]ignoring its effect.[/b][/left]
[/quote]
Already thought of that, though unsure on wording.

[Yankee]

[quote name='Yuzuru Otonashi' timestamp='1343968115' post='5996033']
???
[/quote]

Ah, missed that.

I don't like it.
Seems like an auto win if you bring it out.

[newhat]

This card isn't that tough to hardcast with Mermails or Atlanteans.

[quote name='Cifer' timestamp='1343968177' post='5996034']
Seems like an auto win if you bring it out.
[/quote]

Change the Special Summon restriction to "While this card has Xyz Materials" and change the burn to "during each of your End Phases"?

[Blake]

[quote name='newhat' timestamp='1344019715' post='5996469']
This card isn't that tough to hardcast with Mermails or Atlanteans.

Change the Special Summon restriction to "While this card has Xyz Materials" and change the burn to "during each of your End Phases"?
[/quote]
"You cannot Xyz Summon other monsters during the turn this card is Xyz Summoned.", and IDK what hard cast means.

... So defeat the entire freaking point of it?

Chaos Numbers are meant to be game winners when you're losing ._.

[newhat]

What I mean by "hardcast" is "Summon with 3 Level 3 WATER monsters". You don't have to Chaos Xyz Evolve it to win with it.

[Blake]

[quote name='newhat' timestamp='1344044955' post='5996782']
What I mean by "hardcast" is "Summon with 3 Level 3 WATER monsters". You don't have to Chaos Xyz Evolve it to win with it.
[/quote]
So, tell me how you're pulling 3 Level 3 WATER monsters out of your ass when you're pushed into a corner that doesn't require having a turn of set up beforehand?

[newhat]

[quote name='Yuzuru Otonashi' timestamp='1993145360' post='5996793']
So, tell me how you're pulling 3 Level 3 WATER monsters out of your ass when you're pushed into a corner that doesn't require having a turn of set up beforehand?
[/quote]

Depends what you mean by "a turn of set up beforehand". If you mean "you can't have any Set cards", not much. Otherwise, Abyssquall, Mermail - Abyssgunde, Bubble Bringer, and/or an End Phase Atlantean Roar.

[Blake]

[quote name='newhat' timestamp='1344047742' post='5996861']
Depends what you mean by "a turn of set up beforehand". If you mean "you can't have any Set cards", not much. Otherwise, Abyssquall, Mermail - Abyssgunde, Bubble Bringer, and/or an End Phase Atlantean Roar.
[/quote]
I mean without having a turn of set cards that you are planning to use for this. It's not something you can just topdeck a card and win with. At that, if the LP difference is TOO steep (aka if they have 2050+), it isn't a guaranteed win, even if a likely one.

I'm open to change, just have yet to see a reason to.

[infinitysqrd]

So if you successfully use its effect you are almost guaranteed the win

[Yankee]

[quote name='Yuzuru Otonashi' timestamp='1344047862' post='5996864']
I'm open to change, just have yet to see a reason to.
[/quote]

[quote name='infinitysqrd' timestamp='1344117251' post='5997491']
So if you successfully use its effect you are almost guaranteed the win
[/quote]

[Blake]

[quote name='infinitysqrd' timestamp='1344117251' post='5997491']
So if you successfully use its effect you are almost guaranteed the win
[/quote]
[quote name='Cifer' timestamp='1344117703' post='5997498']
[/quote]
So you mean EXACTLY WHAT CHAOS NUMBERS DO?

Seriously, that tells me NOTHING. Be constructive or get out.

[newhat]

More precisely:

There are currently 2 Chaos Number monsters in the OCG. One of them, Utopia Ray, can swell to a massive ATK against a high-ATK adversary and win the game. However, the Chaos Xyz Evolution doesn't achieve anything if you don't run over a monster.

The other, Shark Drake Weiss, has natural massive ATK and cracks the opponent's front line like a walnut. It's useful for damage, and if your opponent Summons another monster while it's out, it's useful for defense. Again, the Chaos Xyz Evolution doesn't do anything unless there's a monster to run over or defend against.

Acid Golem Reference I Don't Recognize works more like Elemental HERO Air Neos. To use its effect, you must be losing in a certain area that you can manipulate. There doesn't need to be anything dangerous on the opponent's field, or indeed anything at all, for him to damage your opponent beyond recovery, whether by burn or by blocking off your opponent's attacks and Special Summons.

[Blake]

[quote name='newhat' timestamp='1344121778' post='5997552']
More precisely:

There are currently 2 Chaos Number monsters in the OCG. One of them, Utopia Ray, can swell to a massive ATK against a high-ATK adversary and win the game. However, the Chaos Xyz Evolution doesn't achieve anything if you don't run over a monster.

The other, Shark Drake Weiss, has natural massive ATK and can crack the opponent's linebackers like walnuts. It's useful for damage, and if your opponent Summons another monster while it's out, it's useful for defense. Again, the Chaos Xyz Evolution doesn't do anything unless there's a monster to run over.

Acid Golem Reference I Don't Recognize works more like Elemental HERO Air Neos. To use its effect, you must be losing in a certain area that you can manipulate. There doesn't need to be anything dangerous on the opponent's field, or indeed anything at all, for him to damage your opponent beyond recovery, whether by burn or by blocking off your opponent's attacks and Special Summons.
[/quote]
So then should it swap itself for something, over just giving?

If that's the case, why not just spit it out to start with?

[newhat]

[quote name='Yuzuru Otonashi' timestamp='1344121939' post='5997558']
So then should it swap itself for something, over just giving?

If that's the case, why not just spit it out to start with?
[/quote][img]http://img512.imageshack.us/img512/8930/littleedblue0110001lt3.jpg[/img]

No, that's not the answer. This shouldn't lock your opponent down so totally, and it shouldn't win in the Standby Phase.

[Blake]

[quote name='newhat' timestamp='1344122386' post='5997572']
No, that's not the answer. This shouldn't lock your opponent down so severely, and it shouldn't win in the Standby Phase.
[/quote]
Then suggest a fix that's actually, you know, realistic?

Your last suggestion made it able to be swapped BACK to you, and End Phase makes it way too easy to dodge.

[Aerion Brightflame]

Ok, for starters unless i'm mistaken you can;t actually use Acid Golem for this, simply becuase Acid Golem disallows special summons. Since Golem is still on the field when you try and summon this, you can;t summon it. Unless i'm wrong.

As for the effect, it's fine. If the burn was done during the end phase and the swap effect wasn't as it is, then your opponent has no chance to counter, or of they dodged the effect for one turn, they bounce it back at you, which is silly. As it stands, they have the chance to top deck Forrbidden Chalice, meaning it can be countered like the other Chaos Numbers, which is only fair. And if they do, then you get punched in the face by a 3k beatstick. No more attack negating effect

So if i'm right about the first part of the effect, then you need to add a clause allowing it to be summoned when Acid Golem is on the field. and the second effect is fine. This thing is a Chaos Number, so it should just be used to finish a tight game, and it does that.

[newhat]

[quote name='Yuzuru Otonashi' timestamp='1344300006' post='5997600']Your last suggestion made it able to be swapped BACK to you, and End Phase makes it way too easy to dodge.[/quote]
[img]http://i1.kym-cdn.com/entries/icons/original/000/004/671/1287432895880.jpg[/img]
[b]I didn't suggest anything.[/b]

[quote name='HiveNet' timestamp='1344399126' post='5997600']
Ok, for starters unless i'm mistaken you can;t actually use Acid Golem for this...
[/quote]
Golem Night has an "effect" that ignores that. You're not the first person to miss it.

[quote name='HiveNet' timestamp='1344969126' post='5997600']
As for the effect, it's fine. If the burn was done during the end phase and the swap effect wasn't as it is, then your opponent has no chance to counter, or of they dodged the effect for one turn, they bounce it back at you, which is silly. [/quote]
It won't have any Materials at that point so there's no way to send it back.

[quote name='HiveNet' timestamp='1342265156' post='5997600']As it stands, they have the chance to top deck Forrbidden Chalice, meaning it can be countered like the other Chaos Numbers, which is only fair. And if they do, then you get punched in the face by a 3k beatstick. No more attack negating effect[/quote]
Being avoidable doesn't make a card balanced. There are very few cards that can block the burn: Skill Drain, Book of Moon, and Chalice are the most common.
[quote name='HiveNet' timestamp='8744921226' post='5997600']This thing is a Chaos Number, so it should just be used to finish a tight game, and it does that.
[/quote]
I agree with the concept, but I think a tighter game should be required.

[Blake]

[quote name='newhat' timestamp='1344019715' post='5996469']
Change the Special Summon restriction to "While this card has Xyz Materials" and change the burn to "during each of your End Phases"?
[/quote]
[quote name='newhat' timestamp='1344135852' post='5997743']
[b]I didn't suggest anything.[/b]
[/quote]
Hm? What was that, now?

And stop spamming images. Either suggest something reasonable or just stop posting.

[newhat]

Well, I've puffed the pickle. I suppose the end of Main Phase 1 wouldn't help since the Battle Phase has no point anyways.

[Big Bad Pennar]

[quote name='Effect of Number C30' timestamp='1343967753' post='5996027']
[center]You can also Xyz Summon this card by using a "Number 30: Acid Golem of Destruction" you control as the Xyz Material, ignoring its effect. (Xyz Materials attached to that monster also become Xyz Materials on this card.) You cannot Xyz Summon other monsters during the turn this card is Xyz Summoned.[/center]

[center][b]I see this as a balancing point of the Xyz, That way, it isn't an FTK-ish card like, oh I don't know... The entire Wind-up Archetype?.[/b][/center]

[center]Monsters you control cannot declare an attack.[/center]

[center][b]Fine[/b][/center]

[center]During each of your Standby Phases: Pay 2000 Life Points (This is not optional). If you cannot, you lose the duel.[/center]

[center][b]"During Each of your Standby Phases: You lose 2000 Life Points" Makes it a lot shorter while gaining the same PMD dodge[/b][/center]

[center]You cannot Special Summon monsters. You can detach all Xyz Materials from this card; Switch control of this card to your opponent. You must have 1000 Life Points or less to activate and to resolve this effect.[/center]

[center][b]Fine[/b][/center]
[/quote]

Honestly, It isn't broken, although I need to test it sometime