Duel Portal - Duel with your created cards [SUPPORT THREAD] [ONLINE]

[Flash Flyer - Sakura]

How about we put this to a vote as to whether or not seatteite adds Pendulums to Duel Portal.

 

Again, unlike Konami, we have the capacity to design cards so they don't come off as OPed as Qlips, Shaddolls, BAs or whatever Konami made post-ZEXAL that people complain about lately.

 

That's why we can put things in here so we can discuss how much they'll affect the DP gamestate, and whether or not they screw things over.

 

--

Hell, some Pendulum Decks aren't that overpowering.

 

Hermit Youkai only do it for Daibakaze or some other stuff, but then they don't need to do it.

Entermate/Performapals technically need to, but they have other things to play with besides PSing everything.

[VampireofDarkness]

How about we put this to a vote as to whether or not seatteite adds Pendulums to Duel Portal.

 

Again, unlike Konami, we have the capacity to design cards so they don't come off as OPed as Qlips, Shaddolls, BAs or whatever Konami made post-ZEXAL that people complain about lately.

 

That's why we can put things in here so we can discuss how much they'll affect the DP gamestate, and whether or not they screw things over.

 

--

Hell, some Pendulum Decks aren't that overpowering.

 

Hermit Youkai only do it for Daibakaze or some other stuff, but then they don't need to do it.

Entermate/Performapals technically need to, but they have other things to play with besides PSing everything.

But wait, isn't Duel Portal meant to be a card maker's tool? If Pendulums aren't added because a few sour people say no, wouldn't DP be failing at that? It's bad enough YCM itself lacks Pendulums. And what about other CCGs? Would they have to compensate for our "Metagame" being afraid of adding such because it'll break their perfect paradise? Aside from this, I couldn't agree more with everything in that post

[Love of Ghibli]

I literally do not understand the fear of a mechanic. Its a mechanic...not an archetype. 

Ban fusions because of Heroes

Ban synchs because of Sabers, wings, YZ and Quasar

Ban xyz because of wind-ups, constellar, tellarknights etc.

Ban Pendulums because of qli's

 

That is the line of thought that I seem to be reading. If I am wrong please tell me. The only reason why I can see not adding pendulums is if some how the site just couldn't handle it. But if that's not the case then there is no doubt that they should be allowed. I don't see how this is a voting matter.

[Self-Destruct Button]

Funny that you mention Heroes with Shaddolls being a thing. But other than that, I completely agree to Have a Lovely Day.

[Maeriberii Haan]

Well, pendulum is inherently stupid and unbalanced as a mechanic.

 

I seriously don't want to go to the details for that atm.

 

But, since we're not Konami, we can make them bearable.

 

As someone said, this is a cardmaker's tool. We need the option for it to exist, so we can experiment on it. We'll eventually settle to a certain power level for the pendulum anyway.

 

But yeah, i support Pendulums being added to the DP.

 

Also btw is it just me or the site is down?

[Flash Flyer - Sakura]

Duel Portal (along with YGOPro for those who are adept at coding there) is meant to see how well your stuff actually holds up against common threats.

As much as we can critique you in the other areas of CC about how this can be used to trigger combo X, which does Y and so on, the only way to really know is by actual usage.

 

I can't really speak for other CCGs, but depending on if they're designing to Arc-V standards, then perhaps yes they do have to make some concessions.

[Love of Ghibli]

The service is temporarily unavailable for me anyways.

[Darj]

Problem with Pendulums is that the mechanic isn't balanced.

Quoting Robin/Black because he gave a short but good explanation in this thread:

 

The mechanic as a whole is designed in a way that is completely "overpowered" and disturbing. [..] It is both a spam mechanic and an infinite resource mechanic, both of which are not fair design.

 

He also summed it up as a "go hard or go home" mechanic, which is true: either you overwhelm with swarming and recurring monsters; or have problems because your couldn't set your scales up.

 

Then Sleepy goes into detail with this post in the same thread.

 

So, even if we have the freedom of making Pendulums, if they are not as crazy as Qliphs, then most likely will end up as Performapals, which is not good either (unless your goal is building and playing an inconsistent deck). My point is that, the way I see it, Pendulums will hardly end well, so I would rather not have them in DP.

 

 

@Ain: The site is down.

[Aix]

I bet I can make a well-designed Pendulum archetype.

 

On another note, I agree with Nai's point.

[VampireofDarkness]

Problem with Pendulums is that the mechanic isn't balanced.

Quoting Robin/Black because he gave a short but good explanation in this thread:

 

 

He also summed it up as a "go hard or go home" mechanic, which is true: either you overwhelm with swarming and recurring monsters; or have problems because your couldn't set your scales up.

 

Then Sleepy goes into detail with this post in the same thread.

 

So, even if we have the freedom of making Pendulums, if they are not as crazy as Qliphs, then most likely will end up as Performapals, which is not good either (unless your goal is building and playing an inconsistent deck). My point is that, the way I see it, Pendulums will hardly end well, so I would rather not have them in DP.

 

 

@Ain: The site is down.

So just because of a bunch of theoretics and opinions, we sacrifice the ability of the site to serve its proper purpose JUST to compensate for a few people who will have a meltdown if Pendulums ever appear? I think that sounds really silly if you ask me

[Maeriberii Haan]

Duel Portal (along with YGOPro for those who are adept at coding there) is meant to see how well your stuff actually holds up against common threats.

As much as we can critique you in the other areas of CC about how this can be used to trigger combo X, which does Y and so on, the only way to really know is by actual usage.

 

I can't really speak for other CCGs, but depending on if they're designing to Arc-V standards, then perhaps yes they do have to make some concessions.

 

Actually, not really. Nothing in DP can really be said as common threat.

 

Also, it's -possible- to make a balanced full pendulum archetype. It's always is. Even if the mechanic is ridiculously unbalanced inherently, in practice they can be anything.

 

And performapals sucks because they're barely even a deck. They like, don't even have any goals in mind aside from some beatdown.

[Darj]

So just because of a bunch of theoretics and opinions, we sacrifice the ability of the site to serve its proper purpose JUST to compensate for a few people who will have a meltdown if Pendulums ever appear? I think that sounds really silly if you ask me

Well, they are more like facts than opinions.

Anyways, I must say that Ain brings a good point: DP is for experimenting, and implementing Pendulums will allow players to playtest them. So yeah, you can add Pendulums for all I care; it will be interesting to see the cards players come up with, actually.

[Aix]

To expand on Nai's point. It's quite simple to just counteract the negative design elements of Pendulums.

[Self-Destruct Button]

Well, as you go -2 already to set up your scales, Pendulums are not completely bad designed. MST, Fairy Wind, SSArrow are still a thing they have to deal with, and if your name is not Qli those REALLY hurt you. Like, one MST and you go -3 for your scale only. And even so, you still need monsters to work with. Pendulums excel if you let them set up everything - from monsters to scales, EVERYTHING. If not, they're screwed because they - UNLIKE QLI - should not have millions of ways to search their scales. I think DDDs are a really good example of an awesome designed archetype, all they need is a real bossmonster (Hell Armageddon is kinda bad, that new one also Special Summons from grave so he's more of setup to a potential boss) and they'd be good to go, balanced and really fun to use. We differ here between an Archetype that consists ONLY of Pendulum monsters that search for days and are as consistent as it ever gets (qli), a balanced Archetype that has anything (DDDs, have Pend., Sync, XYZ and Fusion) and Performapals (which are more of a collectors deck anyways). That's quite a spectrum already, and there's even more to figure out and do with this mechanic. It's only as broken as you make it. 

[Aix]

Well, as you go -2 already to set up your scales, Pendulums are not completely bad designed. MST, Fairy Wind, SSArrow are still a thing they have to deal with, and if your name is not Qli those REALLY hurt you. Like, one MST and you go -3 for your scale only. And even so, you still need monsters to work with. Pendulums excel if you let them set up everything - from monsters to scales, EVERYTHING. If not, they're screwed because they - UNLIKE QLI - should not have millions of ways to search their scales. I think DDDs are a really good example of an awesome designed archetype, all they need is a real bossmonster (Hell Armageddon is kinda bad, that new one also Special Summons from grave so he's more of setup to a potential boss) and they'd be good to go, balanced and really fun to use. We differ here between an Archetype that consists ONLY of Pendulum monsters that search for days and are as consistent as it ever gets (qli), a balanced Archetype that has anything (DDDs, have Pend., Sync, XYZ and Fusion) and Performapals (which are more of a collectors deck anyways). That's quite a spectrum already, and there's even more to figure out and do with this mechanic. It's only as broken as you make it.

 

Yeah, we already pointed out they either do everything or nothing at all.

[Self-Destruct Button]

That was not my point though.

[宇佐見 蓮子@C94]

Well, as you go -2 already to set up your scales, Pendulums are not completely bad designed. MST, Fairy Wind, SSArrow are still a thing they have to deal with, and if your name is not Qli those REALLY hurt you. Like, one MST and you go -3 for your scale only. And even so, you still need monsters to work with. Pendulums excel if you let them set up everything - from monsters to scales, EVERYTHING. If not, they're screwed because they - UNLIKE QLI - should not have millions of ways to search their scales. I think DDDs are a really good example of an awesome designed archetype, all they need is a real bossmonster (Hell Armageddon is kinda bad, that new one also Special Summons from grave so he's more of setup to a potential boss) and they'd be good to go, balanced and really fun to use. We differ here between an Archetype that consists ONLY of Pendulum monsters that search for days and are as consistent as it ever gets (qli), a balanced Archetype that has anything (DDDs, have Pend., Sync, XYZ and Fusion) and Performapals (which are more of a collectors deck anyways). That's quite a spectrum already, and there's even more to figure out and do with this mechanic. It's only as broken as you make it.

 

Can I just say, I have no idea what cards you're referring to.

[Self-Destruct Button]

YGOwiki or DuelingNetwork Archives are your Friends then. They will tell you.

[VampireofDarkness]

Well, as you go -2 already to set up your scales, Pendulums are not completely bad designed. MST, Fairy Wind, SSArrow are still a thing they have to deal with, and if your name is not Qli those REALLY hurt you. Like, one MST and you go -3 for your scale only. And even so, you still need monsters to work with. Pendulums excel if you let them set up everything - from monsters to scales, EVERYTHING. If not, they're screwed because they - UNLIKE QLI - should not have millions of ways to search their scales. I think DDDs are a really good example of an awesome designed archetype, all they need is a real bossmonster (Hell Armageddon is kinda bad, that new one also Special Summons from grave so he's more of setup to a potential boss) and they'd be good to go, balanced and really fun to use. We differ here between an Archetype that consists ONLY of Pendulum monsters that search for days and are as consistent as it ever gets (qli), a balanced Archetype that has anything (DDDs, have Pend., Sync, XYZ and Fusion) and Performapals (which are more of a collectors deck anyways). That's quite a spectrum already, and there's even more to figure out and do with this mechanic. It's only as broken as you make it.

Well said, although isn't Leonidas their boss? No?

[Self-Destruct Button]

Well said, although isn't Leonidas their boss? No?

Leonidas is just protection and utility, but not a boss. D:

[VampireofDarkness]

If you wish to count him, he could be. But he doesn't really utilize the spamming ability of the deck that much. I think he's weird.

I always thought he was the boss of the Deck because he made the Deck go round and made the Spells no longer a problem in the Deck, which made it much better. To each their own, however

[Self-Destruct Button]

I thought you meant Caesar there, that's why I edited my post. Sorry for the confusion I caused.

[VampireofDarkness]

I thought you meant Caesar there, that's why I edited my post. Sorry for the confusion I caused.

All good. Actually, I almost thought you meant Kaiser, which really is just like "BYE, BYE, BYE"

[Darj]

To expand on Nai's point. It's quite simple to just counteract the negative design elements of Pendulums.

 

Kinda off-topic but to be honest I'm curious to see a Pendulum deck/archetype that is properly balanced. Please let me know if/when you make it (no, it's not sarcasm or anything; I'm genuinely interested).

One way I can think of is making each scale generate a one-time +1 (e.g. Foulcault's Cannon) and Pendulum Summoning only 1 monster per turn; otherwise it could get out of control with massive swarms, or end up weak if you can't keep up your card advantage while setting things up.

 

 

Anyways, before we get Pendulums, it would be nice if we first get an update/fix that allows us to choose who goes first before looking at our hands at the beginning of a duel.

[Maeriberii Haan]

Qlip actually nailed an important point in their design.

 

Limiting summons to archetypal monsters is a step in the right direction, though not necessarily something that needs to be done for all full-pendulum archs.

 

Though they screwed up with all the other points.

 

I'm seeing a balanced pendulum deck to be, first of all, not completely reliant to pendulum summoning, since otherwise, it'll fall into the underwhelming spectrum of things. Then, they must be consistent, but not overwhelmingly. Let's not repeat Necloth and Qlip level of consistency. Making them not too explosive outside of overextending high-risk play is definitely a must too. Then, they would have not too many direct +1s, since the Pendulum mechanic itself will provide them with plusses technically later on.