Shinobi Phoenix Posted January 2, 2013 Report Share Posted January 2, 2013 Ok, so I finally got some cards to upload, so going through the set I was attempting to put up, I ran into another limit of the program and THIS was is actually sort of game-breaking for what we are doing. I found out the hard way that names have to be 40 characters or less (which I guess explains why someone uploaded the RL Chaos Soldier as "Black Luster Soldier - EotB". To be clear, I was attempting to copy-paste this for my card's name: "Lightray Emperor Dragon - Messenger of Redemption". I also tested "Black Luster Soldier - Envoy of the Beginning" just for the sake of the length (since that is a long real life name). I don't have very long names, but they are as long as names have been in real life when appropriate, which means many real cards and ones we put in have to be renamed just to test out in a deck, but that's not as bad as the other limiting problem. Lore can only be 700 characters or less. This is crippling! After I renamed "Lightray Emperor Dragon - Messenger of Redemption" to "Lightray Emperor Dragon - M.O.R." just to continue uploading it, I ran into the OTHER limit when copy-pasting the lore. I work quite hard on lore to be exactly what I want (as in trying to balance the level of a card's power against its nerfs and restrictions, thus giving it balance). Some of the lore I do ends up being as long as it is on cards like Yubel and such, but only because of that balancing act. Trust me, the idea of "fixing" Chaos Emperor Dragon without screwing it up and making it useless was an undertaking already, now I can't even test it here to have someone try it out for me? (at least not Duel Portal) [spoiler=The lore for LED-MOR is]Cannot be Normal Summoned or Set. Must be Special Summoned by its own effect and cannot be Special Summoned in any other ways. Special Summon this card (from your hand) by banishing 1 LIGHT monster each from your hand, Graveyard, Deck and your side of the field. Your opponent may not activate any card effect in response to this card's Summoning. While you have at least 4 banished LIGHT monsters with different names: Pay 1000 Life Points; Send all cards on the field and in both players' hands to the Graveyard except this card, and if you do, inflict 300 damage to your opponent for each sent card, then your opponent will draw a number of cards equal to the number he/she sent from their hand. During the turn you activate this effect, halve the battle damage to your opponent from any of your monsters. Banish this card face-down during the end of the turn this card's effect activates and resolves. [spoiler=But the Code Creator cuts it down to]Cannot be Normal Summoned or Set. Must be Special Summoned by its own effect and cannot be Special Summoned in any other ways. Special Summon this card (from your hand) by banishing 1 LIGHT monster each from your hand, Graveyard, Deck and your side of the field. Your opponent may not activate any card effect in response to this card's Summoning. While you have at least 4 banished LIGHT monsters with different names: Pay 1000 Life Points; Send all cards on the field and in both players' hands to the Graveyard except this card, and if you do, inflict 300 damage to your opponent for each sent card, then your opponent will draw a number of cards equal to the number he/she sent from their hand. D ... thus missing the last two restriction lines. I guarantee this could come up on possibly 30-40% of my cards (again, due to restriction text for balance on a lot of the more powerful cards or even just ones that use multi-tiered commands). Is there any workaround or would it break the program to attempt a workaround? I almost started to just add the missing text into the code itself and try to upload it anyway, but since other people have to use this too, I decided against it in case that did something and caused another error. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zazubat Posted January 2, 2013 Report Share Posted January 2, 2013 I tried to shorten it down, but the banish gets cut off :/ Here' what I came up with anyways Can only be Special Summoned by it's own effect. Special Summon this card (from your hand) by banishing 1 LIGHT monster each from your hand, Graveyard, Deck and your side of the field. Your opponent cannot activate card effects in response to this card's Summoning. While you have 4 or more banished LIGHT monsters: You can Pay 1000 Life Points; Send all cards on the field and in both players' hands to the Graveyard except this card, and if you do, inflict 300 damage to your opponent for each sent card, then your opponent draw a number of cards equal to the number your opponent sent from their hand. During the turn you activate this effect, halve the battle damage your opponent takes. Banish this card face-down during the End Phase of the turn this effect resolves. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shinobi Phoenix Posted January 2, 2013 Report Share Posted January 2, 2013 I tried to shorten it down, but the banish gets cut off :/ Here' what I came up with anyways Can only be Special Summoned by it's own effect. Special Summon this card (from your hand) by banishing 1 LIGHT monster each from your hand, Graveyard, Deck and your side of the field. Your opponent cannot activate card effects in response to this card's Summoning. While you have 4 or more banished LIGHT monsters: You can Pay 1000 Life Points; Send all cards on the field and in both players' hands to the Graveyard except this card, and if you do, inflict 300 damage to your opponent for each sent card, then your opponent draw a number of cards equal to the number your opponent sent from their hand. During the turn you activate this effect, halve the battle damage your opponent takes. Banish this card face-down during the End Phase of the turn this effect resolves. A: Shortening the text wouldn't solve the actual problem when it comes up due to other cards. B: When one attempts to shorten the text, you would be avoiding changing the effect. Your changes affect and change A LOT of the effect to not work at all like I wrote it. For example, you removed "different names" from condition of the effect, thus making it FAR easier to use, which is not what I wanted since it's a nerf. You also removed the line about not being Normal Summoned or Set, which means it can be Normal Summon or Set. Would you really want Chaos Emperor Dragon to be Normal Summonable? You changed a lot of the card without understanding what you changed. C: I stuck rather hard on the Konami's Official Problem-Solving Text format, you changed quite a few phrases they use in on a official and regular basis now. Regardless, this still goes to Problem A: this doesn't really solve the actual problem when it comes back up for other cards. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zazubat Posted January 3, 2013 Report Share Posted January 3, 2013 actually saying ONLY means no Normal/Set Summons. I also must have missed the part where it said different names, that's my fault. For other text, some of it makes sense, and some if it is actually wrong, and some of it I just nerfed to try to get it into 700 or less, but sadly I didn't manage to do so :/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shinobi Phoenix Posted January 3, 2013 Report Share Posted January 3, 2013 actually saying ONLY means no Normal/Set Summons. A: No that does not. In fact, you said can only be Special Summon by, that says nothing about Normal Summons, which is to say you can Normal Summon it. You might want to learn such things if you're MAKING your own cards. In fact, we're here (some of us) to learn how to make them. Maybe if you had said "only Summon by Special Summon by its own effect", but that wouldn't be proper and especially now in the face of PST. B: This is probably EXACTLY why Konami needed to enforce this almost idiot-proofing of the game text and being almost "overstatingly" literal about what means what. Most of the PST (Problem-Solving-Text) is a lot of overstatement, but it ends up being necessary. Still doesn't solve the problem. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zazubat Posted January 3, 2013 Report Share Posted January 3, 2013 When you say can only be Special Summoned, you automatically also mean that it cannot be Normal Summoned. You TYPICLY say "Cannot be Normal Summoned or Set to make it more clear, but it's not needed. And yes it doesn't solve the problem, as I said. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shinobi Phoenix Posted January 3, 2013 Report Share Posted January 3, 2013 When you say can only be Special Summoned, you automatically also mean that it cannot be Normal Summoned. You TYPICLY say "Cannot be Normal Summoned or Set to make it more clear, but it's not needed. And yes it doesn't solve the problem, as I said. Not on topic, still doesn't fix the problem... ... but find me ONE modern card or "Problem-Solving-Text Updated" reprint of a card that lacks "Cannot be Normal Summoned or Set" (or "Cannot be Normal Summoned/Set" but STILL cannot be Normal Summoned. Find me ONE... just one, maybe three just to prove it's happened more than once, but mostly just find one. (Note: I've already looked...) My point is that line of text for modern cards is supposed to be there, but just to make a different point: If one is making a Lightray Monster of Chaos Emperor Dragon, and Chaos Emperor Dragon itself has "Cannot be Normal Summoned or Set", why would you remove it from the Lightray version? -------------------------------------------------------- Either way, I hope this 40-character name and 700 character lore problem will be fixed with the web version of Duel Portal. I sort of get that this is how the limitations of even the official games prevented many real cards from being in them too. So many cards that got strange "renames" in the GBC and GBA version of the games and so many cards missing even from the DS games due to memory constraints and some of them were even just cards that had long text (besides just the ones with complex programming). So I can imagine writing and fixing and updating Duel Portal must be a pain in the behind. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zazubat Posted January 3, 2013 Report Share Posted January 3, 2013 Not on topic, still doesn't fix the problem... ... but find me ONE modern card or "Problem-Solving-Text Updated" reprint of a card that lacks "Cannot be Normal Summoned or Set" (or "Cannot be Normal Summoned/Set" but STILL cannot be Normal Summoned. Find me ONE... just one, maybe three just to prove it's happened more than once, but mostly just find one. (Note: I've already looked...) My point is that line of text for modern cards is supposed to be there, but just to make a different point: If one is making a Lightray Monster of Chaos Emperor Dragon, and Chaos Emperor Dragon itself has "Cannot be Normal Summoned or Set", why would you remove it from the Lightray version? -------------------------------------------------------- Either way, I hope this 40-character name and 700 character lore problem will be fixed with the web version of Duel Portal. I sort of get that this is how the limitations of even the official games prevented many real cards from being in them too. So many cards that got strange "renames" in the GBC and GBA version of the games and so many cards missing even from the DS games due to memory constraints and some of them were even just cards that had long text (besides just the ones with complex programming). So I can imagine writing and fixing and updating Duel Portal must be a pain in the behind.You win, I can't find any either, though I'm sure I have seen this somewhere, and I typicly don't use it myself, though if you want your card not to be filled with as much text as your forum posts, it looks nice just to have that single sentence of text. Concidering that we probably all want cards to not explain everything to us like we're brain dead, we should really just have that single little word only, and skip the other text cause it's really not needed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aix Posted January 3, 2013 Report Share Posted January 3, 2013 Seriously, I have never had a problem with too much card text. Too much text in a card, the card's too complicated, that's how I do things. Simple effects are often better. See the cards by their role in a Deck or an archetype rather than by their individual effects and don't have an archetype based around 1 OPed card. OT: When will the web version be up? Also, how will the web version work? Will it be like DN where you have to register and login? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zazubat Posted January 3, 2013 Report Share Posted January 3, 2013 Seriously, I have never had a problem with too much card text. Too much text in a card, the card's too complicated, that's how I do things. Simple effects are often better. See the cards by their role in a Deck or an archetype rather than by their individual effects and don't have an archetype based around 1 OPed card. OT: When will the web version be up? Also, how will the web version work? Will it be like DN where you have to register and login?True that, some card effects don't need so long effects, balance it out over more cards, that way combos can be made, and if you lose the card, not a big deal, you still have other cards that can support what you're trying to do.I'm going to guess that it's not going to be too different from the current version, though signing up should be a lot faster than having to go into a thread and say it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
seattleite Posted January 3, 2013 Author Report Share Posted January 3, 2013 I'll extend the card text limitations on the online version. If the text is too long it wouldn't "break" the program, just fail to upload your card and throw an error. It was another one of those things which seemed like a good idea at the time... @ AixDivadis - I can't make any definitive statements on when it will be up, but I have one error left to fix and some testing to do. Maybe a week or two, if i'm lucky. Zaziuma is right, you will have an account that you login to instead of posting on this thread. You will only load cards you created initially, unless you choose to share them with someone else. This would allow both players to edit the cards, helping in collaboration scenarios. Most everything else will be handled in the same way. I will add the option to upload non-YugiCo or YCM images too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zazubat Posted January 3, 2013 Report Share Posted January 3, 2013 I'll extend the card text limitations on the online version. If the text is too long it wouldn't "break" the program, just fail to upload your card and throw an error. It was another one of those things which seemed like a good idea at the time... @ AixDivadis - I can't make any definitive statements on when it will be up, but I have one error left to fix and some testing to do. Maybe a week or two, if i'm lucky. Zaziuma is right, you will have an account that you login to instead of posting on this thread. You will only load cards you created initially, unless you choose to share them with someone else. This would allow both players to edit the cards, helping in collaboration scenarios. Most everything else will be handled in the same way. I will add the option to upload non-YugiCo or YCM images too.that last sentence made me love you almost. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shinobi Phoenix Posted January 4, 2013 Report Share Posted January 4, 2013 Seriously, I have never had a problem with too much card text. Too much text in a card, the card's too complicated, that's how I do things. Simple effects are often better. See the cards by their role in a Deck or an archetype rather than by their individual effects and don't have an archetype based around 1 OPed card. I'm sorry, but maybe coming from a more involved background when it comes to game-creation, making my own stuff, and playing other games (Magic is older, better, well-understood even for children and far more complicated and other games follow it, not YGO the second oldest running game, in inspiration), some don't see it as "complicated", maybe that's what's wrong with America. It's too much of a "sound-byte" generation. I think like a Magic player when I make cards because I assume people are smart enough to think for themselves when it comes to how to use something and how it can do. Some times I play a game where I try to convert cards from one game into a card in the other. I'll remind you that there are real life cards that couldn't even get their names in... If you wanted to play a simple game, you should stick with Pokemon, entirely built around coin-flips. Not to mention, simple effects in this game are usually the ones that get restricted actually if you really look at the game's banned list. I wish YGO would have done what Magic did and just used Keywords for various regular actions and put them in the rulebook. Regardless, this is usually a problem of remaking/fixing older cards. Even simple effects on certain monsters still might need something for balance to otherwise JUSTIFY why you think it should be allowed on that card, that is, if you believe it in what you are doing. Lightray Emperor Dragon is not even close to OP, let alone something to be built around, it was just a challenge I set for myself to balance it since that was also a theme of Lightrays (not that we had those very long) and I think I did a fair job hitting all the problem places that CED1 originally had. I would have preferred the balance to allowing someone to accuse it of still being broken and I certainly got it on my proxy without a problem. I'm not acting like text should be unlimited and crazy wrong, if anything, my limit is set just when making proxies because one needs to be able to READ the card, not to mention, too long is just too long, but 700 character is a little off and I know there are longer effects (or just longer due to multi-tiering) in the real game and even this card was only cut by a sentence and a half. Also, I don't remember YVD having this problem. Besides, since the point of this is to TEST the card, one would need to get the card into the test and do said testing to see if said restrictions were even necessary and then if not, they would get eliminated then due to non-function. However, until that point, it's all just on paper anyway. Simple effect was "Draw 2 cards"... that doesn't work very well for balance now, does it? At least, we'll just whine about it, haven't we? They've been trying to redo that and adding more and more text to it for years now. Simple effect... with restrictions and the restrictions are most of the card. And as far as breaking a card up among other cards, that doesn't work when it comes to restrictions. I mean what effects are we talking about here, because it has the same as CED, it just alters the summoning costs and the rest is restrictions. Without them, it would be just the same broken card it was and without the effects, it would just be the cards we already have in real life already no one uses. Regardless, this isn't necessarily the place to debate Card Design Ethics and Philosophies. I just think a flat 1000 character limit is better than 700. What exactly is the TRUE limit before the card would fail to upload? Is 1000 a problem? ------------------ Anyway, different problem entirely: My set codes aren't showing up. The "Special Filter" that allows you to just put in the set codes of your cards so you can quickly find them. If you are looking, my first things I was putting in to test out Duel Portal itself are under "AICD-LGR", is the dash in the code a problem? I obviously follow the real life set codes, in that they are 4 letters for the Set itself, a dash and then the language and number, except this set is special because the four letters are still set, but then I use the language codes to distinguish a subset (since obviously I have no real need for Language codes). Will I need to just get rid of the dash, or maybe use a period (since I notice periods are allowed in the set)? I seem to notice there are no dashes in the other set codes anyway. When editing an existing card, are the changes committed as soon as I hit Commit Changes? I was looking for my set code post change and still not finding it? ------------------------------------------------------------- Because I somehow keep finding the limits of this program, here's another one: Why does the ATK and DEF on the Code Creator not allow "?" ATK and DEF? That is part of the real game. How would you get it to accept indeterminate ATK/DEF? (0 doesn't work because 0 ATK can still be searched for and is different from ?). Is just a strange limit of the program with no workaround? A person won't be able test any card hardly any different from Gren Maju Da Eiza or the Fortune Ladies or The Calculator? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zazubat Posted January 4, 2013 Report Share Posted January 4, 2013 You have to make sure you remove your previous code before you click Commit Changes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Not-so-Radiant Arin Posted January 4, 2013 Report Share Posted January 4, 2013 You have to make sure you remove your previous code before you click Commit Changes. That's not what he's talking about. He's saying that monsters with "?" can't be put into the program, unless I missed something in a previous post. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shinobi Phoenix Posted January 4, 2013 Report Share Posted January 4, 2013 I'm saying both... Where do Set Codes get inserted if it's not "Special Filters" and I noticed that there are dashes allowed after all (I saw 4 set codes with dashes after a second look)? I changed my Lightray cards to AICD.LGR. but couldn't get any Set code at all to show and then I saw there were dashes allowed. So what am I doing wrong? Also, yes, Monsters with ? ATK or ? DEF can't seem to be put in the program. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zazubat Posted January 4, 2013 Report Share Posted January 4, 2013 I already said that you can't use question marks, and he will get around to it. For sets, I don't think the editor means actual "Sets" as in on the card, since you really don't see the card. The set is basicly just for your own convenience, and I suggest just naming the set your username or the name of the arch to find it. Since this is not really for aesthetics, "researching" as you put it, it's not needed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shinobi Phoenix Posted January 5, 2013 Report Share Posted January 5, 2013 For sets, I don't think the editor means actual "Sets" as in on the card, since you really don't see the card. The set is basicly just for your own convenience, and I suggest just naming the set your username or the name of the arch to find it. Since this is not really for aesthetics, "researching" as you put it, it's not needed. That doesn't answer the question, which was how do I insert the set codes and why aren't mine showing when there are so many others that are? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zazubat Posted January 5, 2013 Report Share Posted January 5, 2013 It looks like one of your cards are in there. I made a test, and it does work:[spoiler=The Truth] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zacktheflash96 Posted January 5, 2013 Report Share Posted January 5, 2013 I've tried reinstalling so many times in so many directories and the bastard is still not working :/ i still cant connect to the database so annoying does anyone have an older version they could send my way see if that works im willing to try any other suggestions people have Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Loyalist Posted January 5, 2013 Report Share Posted January 5, 2013 I've tried reinstalling so many times in so many directories and the bastard is still not working :/ i still cant connect to the database so annoying does anyone have an older version they could send my way see if that works im willing to try any other suggestions people haveSorry I deleted all my older versions. I'm sure the web version will allow you to enter the database.. Assuming you delete your racist dragons (Joke xD). Btw If anybody wants to duel me PM me and I'll reply as soon as possible. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TRUE RULER^(Imper.Di ) Posted January 5, 2013 Report Share Posted January 5, 2013 @Seattleite: Any scroll bars coming into the duel window/chatroom anytime soon ? ;) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zacktheflash96 Posted January 5, 2013 Report Share Posted January 5, 2013 There has to be a fix it just seems so weird that i cant get on it anymore Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shinobi Phoenix Posted January 6, 2013 Report Share Posted January 6, 2013 It looks like one of your cards are in there. I made a test, and it does work:[spoiler=The Truth] That doesn't show up for me at all and obviously it refreshes the Card Pool each time the program is started. How can a program so shared have such inconsistencies...? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zazubat Posted January 6, 2013 Report Share Posted January 6, 2013 That doesn't show up for me at all and obviously it refreshes the Card Pool each time the program is started. How can a program so shared have such inconsistencies...?I don't know, I have the newest version on the main thread, try redownloading it and see if that works. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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