Verz Bahamut Singles - Screech Banshee and Autotillery

[Bahamut - Envoy of the End]

I'm 75% of the way to completing a full set. Wahay. Here's two cards from it.

VBC-034 [b]Screech Banshee[/b]
[color=#4b0082][b]DARK[/b][/color]
****
Zombie/Effect
When this Xyz Material is detached and sent to the Graveyard: Add 1 Zombie type monster from your Deck to your hand.
ATK 300 / DEF 0

VBC-035 [b]Autotillery[/b]
[color=#ff0000][b]FIRE[/b][/color]
****
Machine/Effect
When this Xyz Material is detached and sent to the Graveyard: Target 1 face-up Spell or Trap card your opponent controls; destroy it.
ATK 700 / DEF 300

[bury the year]

And I had thought up a similar idea earlier this morning. Using the Charmers.

nofair ;3;

[Lunar Origins]

Screech Banshee seems interesting in Zombxyz. The synergy with Zombie Master seems wonderful. Ditch something, revive this, go Lavalval Chain/something, detach, send 1, add 1 from your deck to your hand. Sounds pretty awesome, to be honest. The stats, though, are just a sore on the eyes.

Autotillery needs 200 less attack, pl0x, and then it would be god tier.

[Bahamut - Envoy of the End]

Two comments in 10 minutes? Holy s***!

[quote name='Rinne' timestamp='1326660801' post='5765659']
And I had thought up a similar idea earlier this morning. Using the Charmers.

nofair ;3;
[/quote]

Where? I don't see it?

[quote name='Her Scarlet Knight' timestamp='1326660998' post='5765664']
Screech Banshee seems interesting in Zombxyz. The synergy with Zombie Master seems wonderful. Ditch something, revive this, go Lavalval Chain/something, detach, send 1, add 1 from your deck to your hand. Sounds pretty awesome, to be honest. The stats, though, are just a sore on the eyes.

Autotillery needs 200 less attack, pl0x, and then it would be god tier.
[/quote]

And Blue Nosterafu. Rank 4 Zombie swarm >=D Just need a Zombie Number, surely that's inevitable. Changed it to DARK and 0 DEF at last minute for Recurring Nightmare.

I can see why, Machine Dupe becomes instant Ouroboros/Shock Ruler/Disigma with destruction. Was originally going to make it level 3 but Zenmaines

Why don't I just lower its DEF by 100 as well...

[bury the year]

Hadn't posted them, but I might as will now.

[AsianGuy1137]

First card is good if zombies actually focused on exceeding, which they don't really as far as my knowledge goes. Goblin Zombie is still more useful since it can be abused so much more easily without any of the hassle, especially for hybrid variants incorporating T.G. or Gusto. Second card, well I'm not really sure what your goal is, but if it were a real card, it would never be used. Horrible stats for a Level 4 with a mediocre effect that requires it being used as an Xyz Material to activate is much more of a hassle than just maining 3 MSTs and siding Dust Tornadoes.

[Premier Alexander Romanov]

[quote name='AsianGuy1137' timestamp='1326673811' post='5765923']
First card is good if zombies actually focused on exceeding, which they don't really as far as my knowledge goes. Goblin Zombie is still more useful since it can be abused so much more easily without any of the hassle, especially for hybrid variants incorporating T.G. or Gusto. Second card, well I'm not really sure what your goal is, but if it were a real card, it would never be used. Horrible stats for a Level 4 with a mediocre effect that requires it being used as an Xyz Material to activate is much more of a hassle than just maining 3 MSTs and siding Dust Tornadoes.
[/quote]
I have a feeling you're very wrong.
However, I am not the one to prove it.

[AsianGuy1137]

You can say you have a feeling all you want, but just saying that doesn't discredit what I'm saying. I have a feeling that I am very right, but again, just saying it doesn't mean I'm very right. I provided some support for my reasoning, but if you think I'm wrong, at least provide some support for yours instead of just going with "I have a feeling..." I've been playing OCG for a long time, and I understand exactly how zombies work. The T.G. variant is the most consistent for pulling off synchros, and Goblin Zombie is much more abusable because it can search when used as a Synchro material whilst the zombie card he made can only use its effect if detached as an Xyz Material (not just directly used either which means that if the summon is negated and the monster doesn't get prio to use ignition effect, no search). Xyz monsters as they are right now are MUCH worse than Synchros so Zombies won't abuse them as much as per se, Gadgets might. The second one, follows a similar line of reasoning in that there's no point in going through all that setup for a mere S/T destruction (face-up, making it even less useful). You might want to argue that all Xyz are inherent -1s and having materials that give you card effects help maintain neutral advantage, but Xyz are used in abundance only when you already maintain card advantage and can afford to minus yourself or used with Rescue Rabbit/Tour Guide that provide direct +1s. Otherwise, Synchros are still more useful.

[Bahamut - Envoy of the End]

[quote name='AsianGuy1137' timestamp='1326679253' post='5766106']
...The T.G. variant is the most consistent for pulling off synchros...

...Otherwise, Synchros are still more useful...
[/quote]

Well that ends that then. Let's all sit around and do nothing that will ever change things and do the same old thing forever.

[Horu]

[quote name='Verz Bahamut' timestamp='1326679608' post='5766110']


Well that ends that then. Let's all sit around and do nothing that will ever change things and do the same old thing forever.
[/quote]
Yeah..... that sounds real fun.....
I give you a 10 for the effort, Verz.

[AsianGuy1137]

Please, let's not be pretentious here. I'm sorry if my original comment offended you, but if you're looking for feedback, don't get snide if I try to be realistic. Would you rather I say: these cards are great - They should be used in every single deck because they're the most splashable cards ever and will make Xyz Turbo Tier 0?

I personally hate synchros and don't play any at all. Does that mean they're still not good? No, it doesn't. I use a few Xyz because they're splashable and considerably easier to summon, and even though most aren't that good, does that mean they aren't used? No, because they are useful in select situations. However, if you want to make good support cards, take into account why the player might want to use these cards as opposed to standard meta. That doesn't mean you have to make them broken like Inzektor or additional Rabbit/Dino support. Being able to pull off good support is the real trick that few card designers have. It takes a lot of effort and understanding so don't pout about it if I offer some criticism.

I think the LCCG does a very good job of doing this by creating innovative cards that aren't as broken as the current meta while still offering plenty of choices to branch off of for diversity. I would suggest checking out the CCG if you want an idea of what I consider to be good.

[Horu]

[quote name='AsianGuy1137' timestamp='1326680212' post='5766120']
Please, let's not be pretentious here. I'm sorry if my original comment offended you, but if you're looking for feedback, don't get snide if I try to be realistic. Would you rather I say: these cards are great - They should be used in every single deck because they're the most splashable cards ever and will make Xyz Turbo Tier 0?

I personally hate synchros and don't play any at all. Does that mean they're still not good? No, it doesn't. I use a few Xyz because they're splashable and considerably easier to summon, and even though most aren't that good, does that mean they aren't used? No, because they are useful in select situations. However, if you want to make good support cards, take into account why the player might want to use these cards as opposed to standard meta. That doesn't mean you have to make them broken like Inzektor or additional Rabbit/Dino support. Being able to pull off good support is the real trick that few card designers have. It takes a lot of effort and understanding so don't pout about it if I offer some criticism.

I think the LCCG does a very good job of doing this by creating innovative cards that aren't as broken as the current meta while still offering plenty of choices to branch off of for diversity. I would suggest checking out the CCG if you want an idea of what I consider to be good.
[/quote]
Now this is a good point. Sometimes it takes a while to create support for stuff. Even when its your own cards. I know this because I create cards and play ccg a lot.

[Bahamut - Envoy of the End]

I'm not being snide. I just found the 'these cards aren't good because they are xyz support and synchros are better than xyz' argument, frankly, stupid.

So let's try to make Xyz better.

Yes I want you to be honest and constructive about the cards, but I don't think your comment was particularly.

[AsianGuy1137]

It's not just the Xyz aren't as good as synchros argument - it's more the this card is so much more of a hassle to setup and even use than just setting a goblin zombie and letting it get destroyed, tributed, used for synchro material, etc that it's so much less playable to the extent it really wouldn't be. One thing about Xyz, they're very easy to remove from the field now with bottomless trap hole, compulsory, or even solemn/rai-oh. If the Xyz monster can't detach a monster, then the effect of your zombie won't even activate making it even less useful whereas Goblin Zombie gets its effect the instant it leaves the field. It's fine if you don't think my comments were constructive, but that doesn't mean you should ignore it entirely unless you think it's wrong. So far, I'm getting the impression that you just think I'm advocating using synchros instead - that is not the case, and you would know that too if you actually paid attention to exactly what I've been saying. If you can make a card that can address the aforementioned problems with your zombie card, then it has the potential to become a good recruiter for zombie decks.

[.Rai]

It's funny because most Zombie builds will probably Xyz more than Synchro.

[AsianGuy1137]

It's funny because it's clear that you don't understand what a competitive zombie deck is. Unless you think I'm just plain out wrong, please enlighten me and explain why exactly zombie decks would exceed over synchro?

[.Rai]

[quote name='AsianGuy1137' timestamp='1326739784' post='5767005']
It's funny because it's clear that you don't understand what a competitive zombie deck is. Unless you think I'm just plain out wrong, please enlighten me and explain why exactly zombie decks would exceed over synchro?
[/quote]

Because running turbo Zombie builds with T.G.s is just pure redundant. Mainly because Plants do it better.

So, Zombies take their own competitive niché which is basically use a Zombie engine to spam Rank 4s (namely Daigusto Emeral and Lavalval Chain) in order to constantly get out extra Utopias and a Brionac for game.

Or just run a Plant engine to get out tons of Level 5 Synchros with the same Xyz engine and Brionac for game, but doesn't really count considering it's a hybrid deck.

[AsianGuy1137]

The specific engine itself is irrelevant (although I know quite a few people that would argue against plants being the most consistent see pojo). I never specifically said that zombie t.g. were the only way to go, just that synchros are what they aim for. Zombie Xyz Turbo with Gusto is relatively unplayed as compared to the Synchro variant using Gusto. The specific reasons can be found in [url="http://www.pojo.biz/board/showthread.php?t=1014611"]Here[/url].

[quote]So, Zombies take their own competitive niché which is basically use a Zombie engine to spam Rank 4s[/quote]
Just no... the fact that zombies can recruit Level 4 with Goblin and spam them with Master doesn't me that its their own competitive niche. Most Zombie decks will run relatively few actual zombies besides Goblin, Master, Plague, Mezuki, and possibly Pain Painter, Pyramid Turtle, Spirit Reaper, and Shuntedoji at 1 or 2 each. The majority of the deck revolves around abusing Goblin's recruiter status with a fast synch engine which usually involves T.G. or Plants (although I've heard that T.G. is much more consistent). Xyz are rarely used apart from a few select youtube videos trying to showcase a few different strategies (that aren't even that consistent, fast, versatile, or widely played).

[quote]Or just run a Plant engine to get out tons of Level 5 Synchros with the same Xyz engine and Brionac for game, but doesn't really count considering it's a hybrid deck.[/quote]
I'm sorry, but this is probably on the most ridiculous statements I've seen in a long time... Are you actually saying that a true zombie deck has to be pure?

[.Rai]

[quote name='AsianGuy1137' timestamp='1326740938' post='5767031']I'm sorry, but this is probably on the most ridiculous statements I've seen in a long time... Are you actually saying that a true zombie deck has to be pure?
[/quote]

no...I was implying that Plants + Zombies does not count as Zombie Xyz, or a Zombie engine centred deck. The Zombie engine is used as a complementary engine to the main Plant engine as an alternative to Tengu while getting out the Level 6s as well.

Also:

1. Pain Painter is bad.
2. Shutendoji is really bad.
3. Why the hell would you run a T.G. engine, which is basically a Level 3 engine, in Zombies, simply for easy Trishula? I mean, if you want easy Trish, you tech in Glow-Up Bulb.

And [b]please[/b] never visit Pojo. The community there are regarded the most useless, inefficient YGO players by a long way. Next to DN forums, of course.

Lavalval Chain from 2 Zombies, dump Mezuki, banish Mezuki for a Zombie Master or something, Special Summon something else, go for a second monster like Emeral or Utopia or another Lavalval Chain and dump Glow-Up for a Synchro next turn.

[AsianGuy1137]

[quote name='.Rai' timestamp='1326741290' post='5767039']
no...I was implying that Plants + Zombies does not count as Zombie Xyz, or a Zombie engine centred deck. The Zombie engine is used as a complementary engine to the main Plant engine as an alternative to Tengu while getting out the Level 6s as well.

Also:

1. Pain Painter is bad.
2. Shutendoji is really bad.
3. Why the hell would you run a T.G. engine, which is basically a Level 3 engine, in Zombies, simply for easy Trishula? I mean, if you want easy Trish, you tech in Glow-Up Bulb.

And [b]please[/b] never visit Pojo. The community there are regarded the most useless, inefficient YGO players by a long way. Next to DN forums, of course.

Lavalval Chain from 2 Zombies, dump Mezuki, banish Mezuki for a Zombie Master or something, Special Summon something else, go for a second monster like Emeral or Utopia or another Lavalval Chain and dump Glow-Up for a Synchro next turn.[/quote]
I'm not quite sure what you consider to be a zombie engine then unless you just mean the main zombie skeleton used for most synchro variants.

I agree with the rest of your comments, except for the pojo part which is very demeaning and just plain out rude. Many of the best players I know frequent the forums, although there are also a lot of bad players, but that's the true for most forums. It's also considered the number one place to refer to concerning rulings aside from Konami itself, on par with yugioh.wikia.com. Also, did you even take a glance at the link I showed you? The thread itself is probably one of the most comprehensive zombie guides out there, and it DOES acknowledge that Pain Painter and Shutendoji are bad, but that they can still be used in specific builds. Why the hell would I run a T.G. engine? Let's see.. set one card, let opponent destroy, search during End Phase. Use CotH to revive or use CotH as bait for S/T destruction then chain and get +1 during EP. There's a specific build in the original post which I think captures the essence of a T.G. Zombie deck very well.

[Premier Alexander Romanov]

[quote name='AsianGuy1137' timestamp='1326742023' post='5767057']
I agree with the rest of your comments, except for the pojo part which is very demeaning and just plain out rude.
[/quote]
Are you originally from pojo?
Because that would actually explain a lot.

[AsianGuy1137]

I'm not, but thanks again for being rude and demeaning with personal insults without ACTUALLY ADDRESSING ANY OF MY POINTS. Caps for emphasis on the one part you're missing.

Also, do you really think you're that much better than people from pojo? I've already asked you to provide me with specific reasons for why you think I'm wrong, but you've failed to do so and done nothing but resort to "I think" and ad hominem replies.

[.Rai]

But like the only reason T.G. engines are good is because of the hand presence they give. And Zombies don't need a big hand, because they'll be running 2 Zombie Master at max. Of course there are good players on Pojo, just very little compared to other sites. Not to mention that just by saying that Pojo has good players doesn't mean its a bad forum.

A normal T.G. engine would take about 6 to 8 cards. That's absolutely massive simply for a marginal hand advantage and some floater presence. And it wastes your Normal Summon. A lot of the time.

[Premier Alexander Romanov]

[quote name='AsianGuy1137' timestamp='1326742335' post='5767065']
I'm not, but thanks again for being rude and demeaning with personal insults without ACTUALLY ADDRESSING ANY OF MY POINTS. Caps for emphasis on the one part you're missing.
[/quote]
Meh. Haters gonna hate.
Which essentially seems to be your argument.
You just don't like anything.
And I don't like Pojo, BTW. Just saying.

[AsianGuy1137]

... Again, I've already brought up my points that I've explicitly stated three times while you continue to ignore them and accuse me of throwing baseless insults while you do the exact same. You're also being a hater, but I guess you like to ignore the hypocrisy to make yourself seem more self-righteous. Haters gonna hate.