DNovaKnight Posted January 9, 2012 Report Share Posted January 9, 2012 So they finally made a legal version of Slifer and one of the rulings is confusing me: [url="http://yugioh.wikia.com/wiki/Slifer_the_Sky_Dragon"]http://yugioh.wikia...._the_Sky_Dragon[/url] It says Gale the whirlwind's special ability to cut atk in half remains permanant. ie: have 2 cards - > 2000 ATK -> gales effect -> 1000 ATK. Even if you draw more cards ... ATK stays 1000. Then it later says with cards like shrink and all others that cut/alter atk, the hand = ATK effect reapplies thus it would realign itself to the number of cards in your hand and NOT stay what it had been. This 2nd ruling makes much more sense so i just want to know. Is the first one wrong? Or is there something different about Gale? If so what it is? cause they seem exactly the same. And where does Black Garden fall into this? Thinking of making a Plant Swarm Slifer deck. It'd be awesome for tribute fodder and for cutting ATK, but would Slifers atk remain cut as well? Or would it still change with the hand c***? Thanks so much in advance. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
evilfusion Posted January 9, 2012 Report Share Posted January 9, 2012 There is a distinct difference: Gale halves current ATK permanently. Shrink only halves the original ATK, and then reapplies continuous modifiers. The halving of Shrink is also temporary. When cards that modify stats permanently are used, particularly those that halve or set to a new value (Black Garden, Gale, Reptiliannes), the affected monster's stats are no longer modified by variable effects already active. That sounded less confusing than I wrote it. Darkwolf explains stuff like this better. Slifer is a Continuous effect with a variable (cards in hand). Gale halves its current ATK permanently. As long as Slifer is affected by Gale, the variable effect that was affecting its ATK no longer carries over. So the halved current ATK remains unchanged, even if you add or lose cards in hand. Other modifiers not in play when Slifer was affected still apply. Similarly, a monster equipped with United We Stand (variable is monsters you control) has its ATK permanently dropped to 0 by Reptilianne Naga. Even if you play more monsters or remove the equip, United We Stand no longer increases or decreases the ATK. This seems to only apply to effects that permanently halve or permanently set stats to a specific value. I could be wrong/explaining it badly, but that's what I got from the ruling mentioned and an explanation darkwolf gave a while back. Also, there is a rulings thread for these questions. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
darkwolf777 Posted January 9, 2012 Report Share Posted January 9, 2012 [quote name='evilfusion' timestamp='1326095059' post='5755931'] There is a distinct difference: Gale halves [b]overall ATK, modifiers included[/b]. Shrink only halves the original ATK. [b]Since the modifiers are unaffected, they will be reapplied after the Original ATK is modified.[/b] When cards whose effects [b]modify the overall ATK/DEF by doubling, halving, setting equal to a value to something, or swapping ATK/DEF values [/b]are applied on a monster, the affected monster is no longer affected by any effects that modified its ATK/DEF before this calculation, including its own effects. (The exception will be if these effects are Continuous Effects instead). Slifer is a Continuous effect with a variable (cards in hand). Gale halves its current [b]overall ATK[/b]. As long as Slifer is affected by Gale, the variable effect that was affecting its ATK no longer applies. So the halved current ATK remains unchanged, even if you add or lose cards in hand. Other modifiers not in play when Slifer was affected still apply. Similarly, a monster equipped with United We Stand (variable is monsters you control) has its ATK permanently dropped to 0 by Reptilianne Naga. Even if you play more monsters or remove the equip, United We Stand no longer increases or decreases the ATK. This seems to only apply to effects that [b]double[/b], halve or permanently set a monster's overall stats to a specific value. I could be wrong/explaining it badly, but that's what I got from the ruling mentioned and an explanation darkwolf gave a while back. Also, there is a rulings thread for these questions. [/quote] Hope that helps Black Garden will fall into the same situation as Gale affecting it, as Black Garden affects overall ATK. If you summon Slifer (similarly to Tragoedia) while Black Garden is on the field, Slifer's Continuous Effect applies immediately when its summoned, so its ATK is 1000 x the number of cards, Black Garden will activate it to halve that value, and then while Slifer remains on the field, adding or removing cards will not affect Slifer's ATK by its own effect. Think of how confused Slifer must be. Against the will of its own effect, it is now modifying its ATK by 500 per card, not 1000 per card. Adding a card will not increase its ATK by 500 because that's not what its effect does. It can't increase it by 1000 because its ATK is currently halved and isn't calculating properly. In this fashion, the effect breaks and can no longer recalculate properly. Last to note: Continuous Effects that double/halve/Set ATK/DEF Equal/Swap ATK/DEF will apply themselves after all over increases/decreases to ATK/DEF are applied. For example, a Light monster equipped with Pestilence with Luminous Spark on the field will have its ATK increased by 500 first, then set to 0 by the effects of Pestilence. If Super Crashbug is on the field and I use Rush Recklessly on an Attack Position monster, the calculations will be reapplied in order. Rush Recklessly will increase the ATK first, then swap the ATK/DEF values, effectively causing Rush Recklessly to increase its DEF by 700. At the End of the Turn, when Rush Recklessly's effect is over, its ATK/DEF values will be recalculated without the 700. Compare what I just said to something like Gale's effect. I use Rush Recklessly on Blue Eyes White Dragon. It has 3700 ATK. My opponent then uses Gale's effect to halve that ATK. Blue-Eyes now has 1850. At the End of this Turn, Blue-Eyes will stay at 1850 as halving the ATK affected Rush Recklessly's 700 ATK gain by managing to cut the "effect's boost" in half. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RyanAtlus Posted January 9, 2012 Report Share Posted January 9, 2012 Back in my days, God cards couldn't be targeted by anything. Them konami these days with their nerfs. They be climbing our windows, messing our God cards up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DNovaKnight Posted January 9, 2012 Author Report Share Posted January 9, 2012 WOW, ok thanks guys. It does seem so stupid that something little like Gale and a Garden can effect a God ,but meh it's ok. I'm still gonna use a plant make with Slifer, now i know to just play garden after Slifer is already there. And if i play him face down and then flip him he'd be fine. oh god, playing a god face down lmaooo And Obelisk would work around these ATK effecting things anyway and BG can still give him tribute fodder to use his other effect. So Slifer, Obelisk, and Black Garden. Sweet. OK, Red/Blue/Black deck it is thanks again guys Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SANDAA BORUTO Posted January 9, 2012 Report Share Posted January 9, 2012 Neither of the 3 Gods can be affected by BG, since no effects can be activated when a God is Summoned. But the Gale ruling on Slifer is WTF. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Toffee. Posted January 9, 2012 Report Share Posted January 9, 2012 [quote name='RyanAtlus' timestamp='1326122000' post='5756151'] Back in my days, God cards couldn't be targeted by anything. Them konami these days with their nerfs. They be climbing our windows, messing our God cards up.[/quote] Obelisk pretty much stayed the same, yo. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
evilfusion Posted January 9, 2012 Report Share Posted January 9, 2012 Told you darkwolf could do it better. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Synchronized Posted January 9, 2012 Report Share Posted January 9, 2012 Isn't Slifer unaffected by card(s) that target anyway, making Gale's effect pointless? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
darkwolf777 Posted January 9, 2012 Report Share Posted January 9, 2012 [quote name='Thunder King Stere-Oh' timestamp='1326134061' post='5756270'] Neither of the 3 Gods can be affected by BG, since no effects can be activated when a God is Summoned. [/quote] That's actually a really good thing you pointed out o.x Slifer (as well as any God card that's out) cannot be affected by Black Garden due to the "When this card is Normal Summoned, Card Effects cannot be activated" line. Of course, wasn't really thinking of it in regards to the explanation. [quote name='- Sharpshooter -' timestamp='1326146292' post='5756644'] Isn't Slifer unaffected by card(s) that target anyway, making Gale's effect pointless? [/quote] Slifer does not have that effect. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
evilfusion Posted January 9, 2012 Report Share Posted January 9, 2012 [quote name='- Sharpshooter -' timestamp='1326146292' post='5756644'] Isn't Slifer unaffected by card(s) that target anyway, making Gale's effect pointless? [/quote] Only Obelisk was given that line. Slifer's nerf in relation to Obelisk is that it does not have that line, and Ra was nerfed so badly we shouldnt talk about it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
evilhorus Posted January 9, 2012 Report Share Posted January 9, 2012 [quote name='DNovaKnight' timestamp='1326091889' post='5755918']Or would it still change with the hand c***?[/quote]lol brilliant typo Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DNovaKnight Posted January 10, 2012 Author Report Share Posted January 10, 2012 WOW, did not meant that. Curse you missing 'o' lmaooo And wow, thanks for pointing that out. So BG won;t affect Slifer. Sweetness!!!! And yah, let's not talk bout the God formerly known as Ra. Tooo soon -____- Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JadenxAtemYAOI Posted January 10, 2012 Report Share Posted January 10, 2012 Yugi: Now to join Slifer is Obelisk the Tormentor. Marik: Hahahhaa, I tribute your Obelisk and Slifer for Lava Golem! Yugi: oh shi* Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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