Sneaking Devastating Shadow [Single]

[Phoenix Dragon]

[b]Sneaking Devastating Shadow[/b]

Monster/ Effect/ Level 7/ Fiend/ DARK/ ATK 1500/ DEF 0

This card cannot be Special Summoned (from your Deck or Graveyard). This card cannot be targeted and is unaffected by the effects of other cards. If this card attacks a monster: destroy that Attack Target immediately with this card's effect before damage calculation (face-down monsters are still flipped face-up). If this card is attacked by a non "Shadow" monster: target that monster; negate the attack and Special Summon 1 "Shdaow Token" (Fiend-Type/DARK/Level ?/ ATK ?/ DEF ?) to your opponent's side of the field. The Level of that Token is always the Level and the ATK and DEF are always the ATK and DEF of that targeted monster (respectively) decreased by 1000, and that Token must attack this card after this effect resolves.


...I hope you like it, guys and I would be happy about any (useful) reply I get about this card. I think it's not too broken and has enough restrictions for it's effects.


...Enjoy!

[Phoenix Dragon]

...Up!

[Phoenix Dragon]

...Bump.

[Igknight]

[font=verdana,geneva,sans-serif][size=3]So basically, to kill it, you would need to attack it with a monster that has 2500 ATK or more? I guess that kind of works... The "This card cannot be targeted and is unaffected by the effects of other cards." is a bit much I think. Without that, it wouldn't be overpowered. The main reason being that it really is not that hard to get out (in a deck that would focus on it (which I think it will)) and it also doesn't have any drawbacks or limitations or a price to pay. What you could do is remove the immunity to effects and make its ATK 1000-1200 so that you can equip it with HoCW. That might make it slightly more overpowered, but it gives the opponent more flexibility and forces them to be creative. That's just an idea, tell me your thoughts.[/size][/font]

[Phoenix Dragon]

...I actually think without that immunity it gets so worse, that you couldn't even play it anymore. Because you need so much ressources to get this out (I can't think of any way to get this from your hand out without Tribute Summon [remember, it is also unaffected by cards which would affect this card in hand, like Star Blast, because it doesn't say "while face-up"]), while it could easily be killed by a tons of cards (including easy to get out monsters most likely Xyz monsters like Leivathan Dragon or Utopia) would it make so weak and unplayable. Only good way to get this out is with the Frogs and Toads. And even then, it can still be destroyed by the Xyz's which are run in every single deck. xD ...And that combo with HoCW would be more broken, I guess. ...The limitation of being unable to be Special Summoned and it's weak ATK/DEF are enough I think. ...Or maybe we can just make it untargetable, and immune to destruction instead of all effects or immune to just targeting effects? Thoughts!? ^^

[Bahamut - Envoy of the End]

You honestly can't think of an effective way to get this out consistently?

Well here's the obvious one: Red Gadget + Ultimate Offering + Yellow Gadget = A near indestructible monster.

Believe me it is really not very difficult to get out by Normal Summon in a deck dedicated to it. And why not dedicate a deck to such a card? It's a ridiculously splashable, undestroyable(almost) monster. It is searchable with Sangan, so getting it to hand is easy. You could also try going Foolish Burial/Recurring Nightmare or several other routes.

Vennominaga is the obvious yardstick here in terms of effect. Vennominaga is a hellish creature to run into, but you won't very often because its an overpowered boss for an underpowered and slow archtype, making it difficult to set up and get out. It is easy to stop it by dealing with Vennominon safely or by removing the backrow threat of Rise of the Snake Deity. But you could easily run this in pretty much anything in the same way anything and everything with any light or dark about it runs BLS. It might be an occasional dead draw but for a monster that easy to set up the summoning of and then extremely destructive and hard to stop it is worth it.

Sorry but its too powerful for a card that generic.

And I don't like the name either.

[Igknight]

Lets pretend I'm making a deck around this card. First, I would probably go with offering gadgets like Verz Bahamut said (or maybe even fableds which make quick tribute fodder) to summon this card. Once I get it out, I wouldn't really care what my opponent summons whether it be brio, trish or otherwise because this card is immune to effects. Thus, I have no need for warnings or BTH. Then, I would need to think about how I would counter my opponent's spells and traps that might get rid of this card. But again, its immune so no need for dark bribes or MSTs. Soooo, then the only way to get rid of this card is through a rather complex process of battle. I stock up on d prisons, possibly some evacs, e cons, book of moon and phoenix winds. This should amount to approximately 25 cards maximum. So I'll use the rest for searchers which are plentiful because of this card's stats and then maybe some deck thinners. Are you beginning to see the problem?

[Phoenix Dragon]

...I do. ...But I won't run it in any kind of Gadget deck. xD ...Because Gadgets suck. ...And if you have enough Tribute fodder to summon this, it's still easy to get rid of it, by battle. ...With 3 MsT, Heavy Storm, and enough Side Cards against this (and also Warning + Judgment if we make it "while face-up"), I really can't see this would top anything, just because of the Xyz (all decks that Top easily get Op'ed Xyz out, like Tengu Plant with Tour Guide, Laggia-Rabbit, ...). ...But instead of saying why it is Op'ed, why do you not make suggestions to make it less Op'ed, Verz Baha? And also, Vennominaga isn't really a good comparison either (it's also not destructable by Battle if you get it out and have enough fodder).

...So, okay, maybe it is a little bit Op'ed, so, what could we change so that it isn't? ^^ ...But with almost keeping that immunity alive would be good!?

[Bahamut - Envoy of the End]

First of all, Gadgets do not suck. I'm not saying they are world beaters, but they definately do not suck. And overpowered Xyz... I'd be fascinated to know what they are...

Second of all, it is not easy to get rid of by battle. It negates all attacks on it by opponents monsters (unless they run Wall Shadow, that could happen), then does the Yubel effect on a weaker monster it summons. Like Igknight said your opponent has to get out a 2600ATK monster, not easy with this around and like he said, because its safe from Dark Hole, Bottomless, Smashing Ground, etc, you can dedicate the rest of your deck to protecting it from your opponent getting in that position.

Vennominaga is comparable; it is harder to set up because Venom's are otherwise pathetic. Getting six reptiles in the graveyard to make it a good war machine, getting Vennominon out safely, getting the trap set safely, there is a lot that can go wrong with it, but if successful with all that work then you pretty much win. This its just swarm weaker monsters/give yourself extra Normal summons (like any Wicked Gods/Slifer/etc deck) and normal summon this. Not nearly as much work or dedication for a stronger monster.

Just making it undestroyable by all effects would do some good, so that it can still be removed or bounced.

[Phoenix Dragon]

...Didn't you see that smiley after I said "they suck"? ...The people don't understand ironic things anymore.

...You do not need a 2600 ATK beater, you need a 2500 ATK beater (because it is not destroyed by battle because the token destroyes this card), which is not difficult to bring out. There are Hyperion, DaD, JD, BLS, and the list goes on, also Utopia, Leviathan Dragon, Acid golem, etc. and they're easy to get out in every single deck.

...And Vennominaga is still a bad comparison. ...But, let's end this discussion. xD

...Okay, let's change it to only destruction effects, but then no sinlge person would play it if it were real. ...Just my opinion. ^^

[Igknight]

Are you kidding? This thing being immune to destruction effects would still be way up there for its ability to, you know, kind of destroy any monster it attacks. So, you might need some counter traps to counter CED and D-prison and then some warnings and black horns to negate brio, trish, and some others. Again, this would amount to 30ish cards, which means its still ahead of the game. Hell, you could run Decree with a few trap stuns and it would work more or less perfectly.