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[Guest Welche]

Or at least realistic.

[Guest Nu-13]

...The hell is that supposed to mean?

[Ieyasu Tokugawa]

Define the title please.

[Guest Welche]

Damn I thought you guys would be able to make the connection. I want an advanced clause like in RP for CC so that the section becomes better. (Icy actually agrees but is too lazy to implament it or something)

[Guest -Tsubaki-]

We can't simply just have that as a response, simply because you might have been suggesting that the OP also become Advanced Clause as well... Which is honestly one of the most retarded solutions I've heard for OPs.

 

As for now and until you bother to figure out what to actually do, no support.

[Guest Star]

Is this another one of those silly threads where a member suggests stricter rules be enforced in the section concerning what cards can and can't be posted in an attempt to "clean up" the section as opposed to offering criticism and helping the members they feel are below them?

 

If so, nah.

[Guest Welche]

No this is a thread to make CC not be a "Oh the OCG looks fine, effect is meh, 8/10" section. You should have to spend more than 3 seconds on a post.

[Ieyasu Tokugawa]

Then write out an example Advanced Clause for CC please.

[Guest Star]

No this is a thread to make CC not be a "Oh the OCG looks fine, effect is meh, 8/10" section. You should have to spend more than 3 seconds on a post.

 

That's much more reasonable, but you didn't really give any sort of explanation or example; you can't just throw out some super strict rule off the bat, either, because members will definitely not (not that it's hard, but this is YCM and the RC members definitely have a reputation of lame (for lack of a better term) commentary in responses to cards.

 

Like Miror said, type something up.

[Guest Welche]

The clause would be simple. Something like:

 

Any comment in this section is expected to be at least 4 lines in length at a minimum. This is to facilitate better help. One line long posts might tell a user if the card is good, but it isn't enough to make the user better at card making. Longer posts on the other hand require more thought and more detail which ultimately will help a user in the long run. An example is that instead of just giving an OCG fix, you explain why their OCG was wrong. This means that next time they do something similar they will know to do it the new way instead of their original way.

 

There are of course going to be exceptions to this:

1. As topic creator, this clause does not apply. This is because you aren't reviewing the card, so generally your posts will be thanking the member who did post a review. It would just be silly to expect you to post more than one line of text in this situation.
   
2. In response to a question form the topic creator, or another user. If you posted a comment and the TC or another user wants you to clarify a small thing or something than you are free to do that briefly.
   

Please remember that this 4 lines is a minimum. It would be much better in fact if you could give a very brief paragraph on all attributes of the card, but that would be hard to do every time.

 

 

That's just the type of thing I would like.

[Lunar Origins]

I agree that there should be some sort of minimum requirements, but, then again, this is YCM. Half of the people don't care about OCG and stuff, they just want a quick opinion on their card. I mean, really. What good would it do? I can see why it applies to roleplays and the such. Other than that? Not needed.

[Guest Welche]

Can we get an Advanced Realistic section where the members who actually care go?

[Guest Icyblue]

I agree to it for personal reasons yes. But the actual implementation of it is grossly impractical. Realistic Cards, hell, all of Custom Cards is directly influenced by the card game in a literal, metaphorical and social way. Not only that but it is also directly influenced by quality of posts in contrast to the simpler posts. As simple posts such as "Great Card 8/10" can be quite influential among newer and older members. And do not tell me otherwise.

 

When someone tells you, "Great Card 8/10" you have a few variables set already. One is that they consider your card above good, something you wanted. Second, is that they see your card in the upper 80 percentile as far as quality to them goes. Thirdly, the consistency of "great" and the 80 percentile tells you that your card if these comments repeat one another in a users own unique way, that your cards are of consistent quality and that you are a good cardmaker. Motivating you to post more. Now this factor alone isn't what makes BETTER cardmakers, it just means that you are good where you are.

 

Now, when a person gives you a long reply that details their opinion of your card, you are not only aware of what you did wrong or right but they frequently show you ways to remedy said problems or what to continue. They open up more possibilities for you, allowing pride and greater flexibility along your own learning curve. These are also something required, because without this your own skill level will flatline no matter how much you post. Definitely not healthy is it? Unfortunately this task is also very difficult if not simply taking a lot of time which most people refuse to do for a variety of reasons. Something which, you Welche I have not seen do lately at all. Until I see you take practice to it on your own accord, your opinion here is naught but I'll give it to you for the sake of discussion.

 

/I'll post more once I figure the source of this lag.

[Ieyasu Tokugawa]

Can we get an Advanced Realistic section where the members who actually care go?

And then all the members who don't care go there.

 

New section isn't the solution. I don't feel an AC would be either. Then again I usually just ignore posts that say nothing informative about the card (even reporting them because they're pretty much spamming if all they say is "cool card bro"). I see where you're coming, but I don't see the need for 4 lines of the same thing in CC, just a line of something that actually says something worth saying.

[Guest Welche]

True that "great card 8/10" is an ego booster, that is all it does. It doesn't tell you anything about your card. Why didn't you get 10/10? Why didn't you get 0/10? The fact that it's great doesn't warent an 8/10, there is something about the card that warent's both an 8/10 and being called a great card, but your post didn't tell them what it is. Thus the next card they post will only ever be an 8/10 because unless they magically improve, they are an 8/10 card maker. It comes down to what they discussed in Plato's Euthyphro. The card isn't great because it's an 8/10 or vice versa. There must be something about that card that inherently makes it an 8/10 and since you know what it is as the member posting the comment, you should tell the card creator.

 

On a rather unrelated note, when you see a card and give it an 8/10, that does not make the card in the 80th percentile. From your post it is obvious you didn't really think about the card very much. In the CC section, an 8/10 is common, but no one gives anything below a 6 really. The ratings don't actually tell the user much about their card because we don't have a scale to put a rating on. It's just a useless .8 that doesn't help the user make better cards in the future.

[//Zeromaru//]

Why not have an [Advanced] tag system. Then have a rule saying that if you don't post well in a topic with the tag you get punished. That way if you want proper criticism of the card you can get it.

[Guest Icyblue]

Welche proves his inability to read I see. I never said that the card itself was great, I always used the term "good" except when referring to the post example. Nor did I ever say that the card was "great" outside said hypothetical users opinion, which is more than enough. Not only that but you did not acknowledge the fact that those posts when contrasted with the "higher quality" posts are invaluable. Please restructure your reply, read my post again, and reply to it all as one lump. That post is not meant to be taken in segments.

 

If you want to talk about these things, without practicing them yourself. You will be taught all the factors.

 

@Alfius: No, I will not segregate users.

[Guest Welche]

*Post deleted by Icy. Please reply to my post (post #13) properly. You will not be allowed to reply further in this topic until you do so.*

 

I agree to it for personal reasons yes. But the actual implementation of it is grossly impractical. Realistic Cards, hell, all of Custom Cards is directly influenced by the card game in a literal, metaphorical and social way. Not only that but it is also directly influenced by quality of posts in contrast to the simpler posts. As simple posts such as "Great Card 8/10" can be quite influential among newer and older members. And do not tell me otherwise.

 

When someone tells you, "Great Card 8/10" you have a few variables set already. One is that they consider your card above good, something you wanted. Second, is that they see your card in the upper 80 percentile as far as quality to them goes. Thirdly, the consistency of "great" and the 80 percentile tells you that your card if these comments repeat one another in a users own unique way, that your cards are of consistent quality and that you are a good cardmaker. Motivating you to post more. Now this factor alone isn't what makes BETTER cardmakers, it just means that you are good where you are.

 

Now, when a person gives you a long reply that details their opinion of your card, you are not only aware of what you did wrong or right but they frequently show you ways to remedy said problems or what to continue. They open up more possibilities for you, allowing pride and greater flexibility along your own learning curve. These are also something required, because without this your own skill level will flatline no matter how much you post. Definitely not healthy is it? Unfortunately this task is also very difficult if not simply taking a lot of time which most people refuse to do for a variety of reasons. Something which, you Welche I have not seen do lately at all. Until I see you take practice to it on your own accord, your opinion here is naught but I'll give it to you for the sake of discussion.

 

/I'll post more once I figure the source of this lag.

 

Ok well I see that you want me to respond to this in one lump, but you make a great number of different points here so I should just begin from the beginning.

 

I was once a new card maker, posting my cards I thought were great. A great member called Silencer Leader told me they sucked and gave me some form of rating like "not worth reading/10". This didn't help me make my cards any better, but even this was better than someone posting "okay cards, 6/10" which seems like what a normal member would post. At least with Silencer's post I knew I did something wrong, I knew my cards sucked. While the ego boosting comments are great to give new members so they stick around, I think a well crafted multi-line response would improve the quality of the section and only members who really wanted to get better would stay on the site, while the people who are too cocky to ever become truly good would leave.

 

Motivating a member to post more does on the face of it seem good, but the question is, when do we stop? When do we stop telling the member their cards are good and reveal the secret we have kept from them? When they learn the truth will the still want to stay? Or do we never tell them? Do we hope their cards improve without us actually giving them advice? If we do the latter then the section becomes a hellhole of people posting their cards to meet with pointless responses.

 

Finally there is the matter of me not doing this. You of all people aught to know why I haven't posted in RC for ages. (I'll give you a hint, it's you). Over the past 3 or so months I have been perma banned three times. While they were deserved for the most part, the third time was a system glitch which you didn't tell me about when I asked you on MSN and Marblezone didn't check his email so really I only have Phantom Roxas to thank. Why didn't I post good comments before that? I haven't made a brand new card in at least a year if not more. All the cards I post in RC are remakes of old cards and I just post them for fun. I haven't commented in RC for well over a year if I remember correctly because I moved into TCG.

 

If you would like I will gladly go into RC and make a post to demonstrate what kind of post I would love to see everywhere, though it wont be too great because I'm not the legend I used to be.

[Guest Icyblue]

Finally there is the matter of me not doing this. You of all people aught to know why I haven't posted in RC for ages. (I'll give you a hint, it's you).

 

If you would like I will gladly go into RC and make a post to demonstrate what kind of post I would love to see everywhere, though it wont be too great because I'm not the legend I used to be.

 

The points were all one as they do not work without each other. And I've no idea your problem with me, I don't hold such petty things as grudges or even annoyances for very long (except for 2 people who happen to be related to me and 1 object). I don't care either what troubles you may have with me either, if you won't speak to me they will remain as such. Nor are you or anyone here a "legend" or anything else arrogant. However, I do place one hidden rule: In order to voice an opinion, one must actually practice their opinion prior or they will not be heard.

 

Now excuse me I have vocational training to go to.

[Guest Welche]

So simply because I do not post in RC means that the section no longer deserves to be improved? I don't think we should take this idea any less seriously bassed on the member who posts it, that's simply wrong. My knowledge of the section from a fews years back applies fairly consistently with what I have seen of it today. Don't think I don't know anything about RC, and don't think that this is the first time I thought of an Advanced Clause. In the past when I was more active there, I made it a policy for myself to post that kind of comments and I added to all my topics a rule that your comments had to be that long. Though I haven't practiced that in the last 48 hours I've been unbanned for, this idea still deserves as much thought as any other idea.

 

It is very sad that the username "Welche" carries so much less respect now. :(

[Umbra]

Why not have an [Advanced] tag system. Then have a rule saying that if you don't post well in a topic with the tag you get punished. That way if you want proper criticism of the card you can get it.

 

As strange as it may sound, coming from me, this could actually work out to be the better idea. However, I don't think that a "punishment" is appropriate: a custom card thread doesn't warrant collective effort for an extended amount of time the same way an RP does, so you shouldn't expect as much from the average commenter.

 

The tag would be more of a request, then: "Hey, guys, I want some more elaborate comments, so could you put some more effort into it? Thanks."

[Guest Welche]

I don't think that would be effective at all. It would be more of a "Don't post here" thing.

[Umbra]

I don't think that would be effective at all. It would be more of a "Don't post here" thing.

 

In other words, enforcing it would put a "Don't post here" on the entire section?

[Guest Welche]

It's challenging balancing the two, but I think quality of comments over quantity is important.

[Anti-Apocryphal]

And what for people like me? I give a brief review, but it isn't four lines long. You're asking for the CC to go dead. No support at all.