Aggro uses Konami's problem solving card text on Slifer

[Agro]

Slifer the Sky Dragon
DIVINE / Level 10
[ Divine-Beast / Effect ]
This card cannot be Special Summoned. You must Tribute 3 monsters to Normal Summon this card (you cannot Set this card). The Normal Summon of this card cannot be negated. When this card is Normal Summoned Spells, Traps and other monsters' effects cannot be activated. This card cannot be targeted by card effects. This card's ATK is equal to the amount of cards in your hand x1000. When an opponent's monster is Summoned: discard 1 card; That monster loses 2000 ATK. If its ATK becomes 0 by this effect, destroy it.
ATK / ? DEF / ?

Did you get all that?

[Mecha Love]

[quote] If the Opponent's monster has less than 2000 ATK; that monster loses 2000 ATK, then it is destroyed. [/quote]
Why? Does it serve any purpose that?
inb4thereis

[Agro]

[quote name='Thunder End Dragon' timestamp='1320432325' post='5616928']
Why? Does it serve any purpose that?
inb4thereis
[/quote]If you're following Konami's new problem-"solving" text. It's saying that any monster with 2000 or less attack is destroyed, and all monsters that you use the effect for lose 2000 ATK.

[Mecha Love]

But:
[b] If the Opponent's monster has less than 2000 ATK[/b]; that monster loses 2000 ATK, then it is destroyed.

So aren't you referring the rest of the effect to if the monster has 2000 ATK or less, which means monsters with over 2000 will be left unaffected? That's what I'm reading anyway....

[Agro]

[quote name='Thunder End Dragon' timestamp='1320433373' post='5616953']
But:
[b]If the Opponent's monster has less than 2000 ATK[/b]; that monster loses 2000 ATK, then it is destroyed.

So aren't you referring the rest of the effect to if the monster has 2000 ATK or less, which means monsters with over 2000 will be left unaffected? That's what I'm reading anyway....
[/quote][b]When an Opponent's monster is summoned, you can discard 2 cards:[/b] If the Opponent's monster has less than 2000 ATK; that monster loses 2000 ATK, then

You gotta remember that part. For some reason, this is how it works. Of course, I'm gathering all this from the text on Exarch of Dark World.

[evilfusion]

"When this card is Normal Summoned: Spells, Traps and other monsters' effects cannot be activated."

Uh...why does this start a chain? There is no point to it starting a chain, because nothing can activate. *thinks a second* Actually, this line completely defeats the point of the effect if it starts a chain, because the second half (after the colon) is considered to NOT be active until it resolves.

"When an Opponent's monster is summoned, you can discard 2 cards: If the Opponent's monster has less than 2000 ATK; that monster loses 2000 ATK, then it is destroyed"

No, no, no. Let me fix that for you. Paranthesis here indicate WHY it's written that way.

"When an opponent's monster is Summoned (Trigger): you can discard 2 cards (cost); That monster loses 2000 ATK. If its ATK becomes 0 by this effect, destroy it."

[Mecha Love]

[quote]
"When an opponent's monster is Summoned (Trigger): you can discard 2 cards (cost); That monster loses 2000 ATK. If its ATK becomes 0 by this effect, destroy it."
[/quote]
That makes a lot more sense....... Just saying O.o

[Ieyasu Tokugawa]

[quote name='AggroDrago' timestamp='1320434266' post='5616970']
[b]When an Opponent's monster is summoned, you can discard 2 cards:[/b] If the Opponent's monster has less than 2000 ATK; that monster loses 2000 ATK, then

You gotta remember that part. For some reason, this is how it works. Of course, I'm gathering all this from the text on Exarch of Dark World.
[/quote]
Exarch has an effect that triggers from 2 different triggers. This is different.

[evilfusion]

[quote name='Twilight Sparkle' timestamp='1320435259' post='5617007']
Exarch has an effect that triggers from 2 different triggers. This is different.
[/quote]

Not only that, but with those DWs, the basic Trigger is the same, but how it resolves based on circumstance is different. Also, it's written that way because a number of the secondary effects target cards. Sillva and Grapha affect the hand (which can't be targeted) which is why they're not written that way.

Slifer doesn't work that way. You want it to destroy only if its ATK was under 2000 when it was resolving, but the way it's worded now will kill the monster regardless of its ATK before the effect, and the part before the semi-colon makes no sense at all.

That's why I wrote it the way I did.

I'm curious on whether you want the discards to be a cost and whether Slifer's effect should be mandatory.

[Agro]

[quote name='evilfusion' timestamp='1320435643' post='5617018'] Not only that, but with those DWs, the basic Trigger is the same, but how it resolves based on circumstance is different. Also, it's written that way because a number of the secondary effects target cards. Sillva and Grapha affect the hand (which can't be targeted) which is why they're not written that way. Slifer doesn't work that way. You want it to destroy only if its ATK was under 2000 when it was resolving, but the way it's worded now will kill the monster regardless of its ATK before the effect, and the part before the semi-colon makes no sense at all. That's why I wrote it the way I did. I'm curious on whether you want the discards to be a cost and whether Slifer's effect should be mandatory. [/quote]I should probably make it mandatory, and it is a cost, correct. Otherwise, it'd be plain evil.

Anywho, changes made, including making it mandatory.

[evilfusion]

Just a nitpick. Slifer should be Level 10, not 12. Obelisk and Ra were both Level 10 in anime and RL, so...

[Agro]

[quote name='evilfusion' timestamp='1320436036' post='5617027']
Just a nitpick. Slifer should be Level 10, not 12. Obelisk and Ra were both Level 10 in anime and RL, so...
[/quote]That's surprising, I'd made it that just off a guess. Noted and changed.

Better question at this point: Balanced for TCG?

[evilfusion]

It's not as crappy as Ra, but not as good as Obelisk, yet a lot of the moves prevent its abuse.

It cant be SSed, but that's a good thing. It has a mandatory effect that forces discards, so you can't hoard cards, but that also makes it easy to take down, especially with Special Summoning, so maybe the cost should only be 1 card, rather than 2. It also lacks the "cannot be targeted" effect that Obelisk has (and Ra lacks). I think it'd be okay to give that to Slifer.

[Agro]

Sounds good. EDITED. Done.