Ultimate Gate Guardian; a new take on an old favorite

[KdogPrime]

Edit: Added new support cards and tweaked Guardian Box Set's effect

Remember Gate Guardian? The incredibly hard to summon beatstick that was one of the three most powerful cards in the game back in the day? It was a favorite of mine, not because it was very useable, but because it was the first Hidden Rare I ever owned. Lots of old cards get updated versions, like Celtic Guardian, Gaia the Fierce Knight, BEWD, Dark Magician, but old Gate Guardian got left in the dust.

Recently, I was watching the season 1 yugioh episodes and I decided that Gate Guardian needed to make a comeback. Taking into account the kind of monster he was (three monsters in one), and the kinds of powers he had in the show, I thought about making an XYZ monster, but seeing as the Cardmaker doesn't have those options yet, I made him an Effect monster with some additional powers.

Positive feedback would be appreciated.



Card Lore: This card cannot be Normal Summoned or Set. This card can only be Special Summoned by Tributing "Sanga of the Thunder", "Kazejin", and "Suijin". Once per turn, this card cannot be affected by 1 of your opponent's card effects. Once per turn, you can reduce this card's ATK by half until the End Phase. If you do, this card can attack up to 3 of your opponent's monsters this turn. If this card is attacked, reduce its ATK by half until the End Phase. If this card would be destroyed by battle, add 1 "Guard Counter" to this card (max. 2) and it is not destroyed. "Guard Counters" cannot be removed from this card by a card effect.

New Support card:



Card Lore: Activate only 1 "Guardian Box Set" per turn. Choose 1 of these effects:
- Discard 1 monster card from your hand. Add 1 Level 7 monster from your Deck to your hand.
- Banish monster cards from your Graveyard whose total Levels are 7 or higher. Special Summon 1 Level 7 or lower LIGHT, WATER, or WIND monster from your Deck.
 
Additional Support cards:



Card Lore: Activate this card only if you control "Kazejin". When your opponent activates a card effect that would remove "Kazejin", "Suijin", or "Sanga of the Thunder" from the field, then those monsters are not affected by that effect or the effects of any cards of the same name for the rest of the duel.



Card Lore: Activate this card only if you control "Sanga of the Thunder". If a "Kazejin" or "Suijin" you control battles with an opponent's monster during this turn, then 1 "Sanga of the Thunder" you control can attack twice during your Battle Phase. One of the affected monster's attacks must target an opponent's monster.



Card Lore: Activate this card only if you control "Suijin" and at least two other monsters. When your opponent attacks with a monster that has 2400 ATK or more, negate the attack. Each turn you can only activate this effect up to the number of monsters you control.

[ragnarok1945]

too much even at 2400

it's still way too easy for a OTK set up

[Jackel The Mad]

I shouldn't be able to attack 3 times even if it halves its atk that's to much and the guard counters are over powered you should have a requirement for them like discard on card to put a guard counter on this card. 5/10 untell it is fixed

[KdogPrime]

[quote name='ragnarok1945' timestamp='1316657928' post='5532076']
too much even at 2400

it's still way too easy for a OTK set up
[/quote]

I took Kazegin's ATK as the base start point for a half attack, because it is the weakest of the trio. Considering that you still have to tribute 3 Level 7 monsters to summon it, it can't possibly be much weaker than that, or it's not worth summoning at all. Also taking into account that its ATK is halved when it is ATTACKED, and the ATK of most high level Synchro monsters is usually above 2400.

Cutting the ATK by 400 points is as low as I'll go.

[quote name='Amorphis God' timestamp='1316658266' post='5532085']
I shouldn't be able to attack 3 times even if it halves its atk that's to much and the guard counters are over powered you should have a requirement for them like discard on card to put a guard counter on this card. 5/10 untell it is fixed
[/quote]

Um, I don't think so. Even considering the current cards in the game today, this is still a hard monster to summon. Even at 2200 ATK when it is attacked, that's still weaker than most of the more popular Synchro and XYZ monster that are used, which are far easier to summon than this monster. A Life Point cost might be more appropriate though.

Adding a Life Point cost of 500 points to add a "Guard Counter" and changed the Guard Counter wording a bit.

[KdogPrime]

Bump.

[biraj123]

I agree with kdog it should have a good eff quick question, did you mean for it to negate effects during your opponents turn? Because that may be over the line

[KdogPrime]

The effect was meant to be used during either player's turn to stop a card's effect from affecting ONLY Gate Guardian, not your other monsters, but another look at the wording, and it does sound a bit confusing. I'll change it to better reflect the intent of the effect.

Also changed the triple attack effect to better reflect the idea of what I had in mind. Three direct attacks would be pretty brutal, but three attacks on monsters isn't so easy to OTK.

[MibeR]

not its worth it, tributing 3 monsters isnt easy in this case. +all 3 cards is not Nomi or semi nomi. You make gate guardian better, and probably someone would make the deck.

[KdogPrime]

[quote name='Syns' timestamp='1316745429' post='5533961']
not its worth it, tributing 3 monsters isnt easy in this case. +all 3 cards is not Nomi or semi nomi. You make gate guardian better, and probably someone would make the deck.
[/quote]

You have a point about the Tributes, but I'm already well aware of how hard he is to summon, given that I mentioned it twice in earlier posts. I wanted to keep that aspect of the Gate Guardian, but simply make him more viable to play.

And you are wrong, Gate Guardian is a Semi-Nomi monster.

But you've reminded me of all the other cards a player might have to use to get out Sanga, Suijin, and Kazejin, and their often high Life Point costs (Mausoleum of the Emperor, Ultimate Offering), so I'm going to remove the stupid 500 LP cost to add a Guard Counter.

Lastly, now that I've changed the effects to prevent a triple direct attack, I'm going to bump his ATK back up to 4800.

All that messing around, and he's pretty much no different than he was before.

One question though, should I keep the ATK reduction when attacked in effect until the End Phase, or until the end of the Battle Phase?

[MibeR]

It is so much better. If you make a Spell and Trap Cards support to get out that 3 monsters. In case Mausoleum can be used. But you have to pay 6000 LP for this? Spell/Trap Support to SS Suijin, Kazejin, Sanga easier would make this card a lot better

[KdogPrime]

[quote name='Syns' timestamp='1316832140' post='5535942']
It is so much better. If you make a Spell and Trap Cards support to get out that 3 monsters. In case Mausoleum can be used. But you have to pay 6000 LP for this? Spell/Trap Support to SS Suijin, Kazejin, Sanga easier would make this card a lot better
[/quote]

I'll think about support cards for the trio, but I'm thinking that there already exist alternatives to summoning them by making easy tributes (Tribute Doll, Stray Lambs), as well as support for cards that will allow for special summoning the monsters that allow the trio to be summoned with 1 Tribute (Kaiser Sea Horse, Unshaven Angler, and Whirlwind Prodigy). The problem is getting the trio into your hand. I'll think about a Support card for that.

[biraj123]

[quote name='KdogPrime' timestamp='1316834763' post='5536028']

I'll think about support cards for the trio, but I'm thinking that there already exist alternatives to summoning them by making easy tributes (Tribute Doll, Stray Lambs), as well as support for cards that will allow for special summoning the monsters that allow the trio to be summoned with 1 Tribute (Kaiser Sea Horse, Unshaven Angler, and Whirlwind Prodigy). The problem is getting the trio into your hand. I'll think about a Support card for that.
[/quote]
Something like Ojamagic?
Or whatever its called

[:^)]

Why not Fusion >_>

[biraj123]

[quote name='Cindy ♥s You' timestamp='1316875756' post='5536843']
Why not Fusion >_>
[/quote]

FUTURE FUSION

[KdogPrime]

[quote name='biraj123' timestamp='1316873517' post='5536788']
Something like Ojamagic?
Or whatever its called
[/quote]

Still requires the summoning of the Ojamas from your hand. The problem isn't adding more monsters to your hand, but instead adding the trio of Sanga, Suijin and Kazejin to your hand, or Special Summoning them.

[quote name='Cindy ♥s You' timestamp='1316875756' post='5536843']
Why not Fusion >_>
[/quote]

Because everyone under the sun has made a stumble-bum fusion for Gate Guardian and I wanted to do something different.

[quote name='biraj123' timestamp='1316877088' post='5536879']

FUTURE FUSION
[/quote]

Same as above.

Bump and added a new support card.

[bilaterus]

lol guardian box set, so punny

Seems a bit splashable, but it has a fairly steep cost so. Perhaps make it more focused on this archetype and easier to activate

Also, basically, what Syns said: make it easier to get the three materials out, and people will flock to this. You've pretty much got the gate guardian effect nicely sorted.

[KdogPrime]

[quote name='bilaterus' timestamp='1316900893' post='5537758']
You've pretty much got the gate guardian effect nicely sorted.
[/quote]

Thank you, finally someone that thinks so too.

[quote name='bilaterus' timestamp='1316900893' post='5537758']
Seems a bit splashable, but it has a fairly steep cost so. Perhaps make it more focused on this archetype and easier to activate

Also, basically, what Syns said: make it easier to get the three materials out, and people will flock to this.
[/quote]

The problem with that is, there is no archetype for the Gate Guardian or any of the pieces (So I'd have to mention them by name). And considering you are going to be tribute summoning a lot to get the pieces out on the field, I figured, why not make a card that makes it easier to summon a couple of them or at least add them to your hand by using monsters that are going to end up in the graveyard anyway?

At least this way, even if the tribute fodder gets wiped out, you still have a chance to summon the pieces. Getting Gate Guardian into your hand isn't the issue. It's summoning the trio.

Maybe I'll tweak the levels required and the second effect.

[KdogPrime]

Bump and edited the support card to make it a little easier for use.

To be honest, I kind of liked what I had before, as it was a little more original than what it is now. Maybe I'll make more support cards later.

[raaabr]

Yeesh. Still too overpowered. maybe you should just make it that you can add the three guardians to your hand, but can't summon them for a while. Or set them on the field with lowered stats.

[KdogPrime]

[quote name='raaabr' timestamp='1317002001' post='5541049']
Yeesh. Still too overpowered. maybe you should just make it that you can add the three guardians to your hand, but can't summon them for a while. Or set them on the field with lowered stats.
[/quote]

To be honest, I liked it better the way before I changed it. It wasn't limited to once per turn either, but it was an effect that wasn't likely to be used more than once or twice per turn, especially in the earlier turns of the duel.

As for your ideas, I'm not dumbing down the stats of a monster that requires two tributes to be summoned. As for the other idea, it has merit, but I think I'm just going to add an additional restriction limiting the number that can be activated per turn.

I'm always thinking about stuff like that later.

[Ieyasu Tokugawa]

The only freaking way this is OP'd is that the spell summons from the deck. Gate Guardian still requires 3 level 7 monsters as a freaking tribute, and with or without the Spell card you can't expect to do that easily, given all the destruction flying out the wazoo this format.

[KdogPrime]

[quote name='Miror B.' timestamp='1317027426' post='5541641']
The only freaking way this is OP'd is that the spell summons from the deck. Gate Guardian still requires 3 level 7 monsters as a freaking tribute, and with or without the Spell card you can't expect to do that easily, given all the destruction flying out the wazoo this format.
[/quote]

Thank you! It's nice to see someone who understands the format of the game these days. Especially with Dark Hole now legal again.

And a brony too! Hoof bump!

[gimmepie]

It's really hard to summon so I guess an effect this powerful is justified but I'd still be careful not to push it any further.

[KdogPrime]

[quote name='gimmepie' timestamp='1317053111' post='5541953']
It's really hard to summon so I guess an effect this powerful is justified but I'd still be careful not to push it any further.
[/quote]

Thank you, and the monster's effect isn't going to change anymore.

Not a single person has come out with any love for the Gate Guardian. I guess I'm the only one that still thinks fondly of the big lug.

[gimmepie]

I have never really liked it sorry, I do like the idea of reviving classics though as the game keeps getting further and further from the original.