Ice. Posted February 24, 2012 Report Share Posted February 24, 2012 [quote name='Voltaire' timestamp='1330104067' post='5837728'] Have you tried paying with it in pro servers? You can't live 30 seconds! Look, with the Sc, and EE, it is really good, but not OP. [/quote] You haven't really explained how it's not OP. "Oh, if you do this it isn't!" That's not a balanced weapon. It shouldn't be the player's choice to make the weapon extremely OP or extremely balanced at will. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kizzi Posted February 24, 2012 Report Share Posted February 24, 2012 Do I have to post the whole thing again to get even a slight response? [quote] There is a massive difference between not having downsides and not being totally f***ing retarded. The Phlogistinator has a massive downside in the lack of airblast (and the broken particles, but that's another thing) but the whole concept of the flamethrower seems to exclusively lower the pyro's necessary skill level. The secondary attack is easy, counter intuitive and requires what seems like far too much attention just for one person. Anyone playing against even a couple of not-so-aware players who has learned the very basics of pyro (to the degree of pressing WM1, pretty much) can fill a MMPH bar, and when it's fun the pyro has the ridiculous ability to get out of a situation in a way that should NEVER BE POSSIBLE. It enables a pyro at something like 10hp to not only survive, but possibly kill other players afterwards. It can be used as a ridiculous weapon of destruction against lesser skilled players, and a get-out-of-jail-free card akin to the dead ringer against more skilled players. As I already mentioned, the flame particle is inherently broken for the Phlogistinator as it does NOT show where the actual flame is, making it misleading how a pyro is firing and how the weapon works. As well as this, the weapon is EXTREMELY effective against even skilled players who are not sure how the weapon works yet, as it is so counter intuitive. The whole idea of taunting to receive a power-up would seem to suggest that the player has to be weak and heavily exposed before he can reap the benefits, but in a lot of cases the only thing that could kill a taunting Phlogistinator pyro is a spy. A lot of the time players may assume that the pyro is exposed and go for the kill, but there is no entirely clear indicator that he receives 90% (the tied highest bar invincibility, and tied with a borderline overpowered weapon at that) damage resistance. Since players will close in to maximise damage before the taunt is over, they are also likely to be killed once the taunt is over, especially if they instinctively fire all their ammo to try and kill the pyro before he can finish his taunt. This is not only frustrating in situations with Phlogistinator pyros but also in those where the power up is not necessarily involved - for example newer players may not be so aggressive against taunting players where they actually should be. Another problem is that people may often retreat against players using this weapon regardless of if they have charge or not (because there is NO CLEAR INDICATOR whatsoever, which means other players can't prepare for it) which allows the pyro to survive even when he is overextending or otherwise misplaying and should really be killed. Another thing to note is that spy is not even an excellent counter to the Phlogistinator taunt: it is relatively quick, may be done in areas where there is a lot of opposing spam and is done by a pyro forced into the WM1 playstyle, which likely means that any applicable spies are holding back against him in fear of being lit up until a stab opportunity presents itself. As the spy could be avoiding the pyro and going for other stabs, a lot of time he won't be around when the pyro taunts. Even then, as the pyro gets into third person to activate the ability, he gets a chance to look around and if he isn't under focus fire he may be able to turn behind him and kill anything that presents itself within half a second or so before resuming his rampage, including even a disguised spy if he is suspicious (or impulsive) enough to react instantly and beeline for the pyro. The taunt indicator and the crit buff that ensues after it also means that if the pyro is not killed by stickies or a spy or anything, enemies may flee for several seconds which reduces their spamming, killing and so on potential as well as helping his team stay alive (which could preserve an uber advantage for example, or prevent a kritz from outplaying an uber) and allow his team to push forward and gain ground with bearing on NO EFFORT from the pyro, and none from the team if they even have the slightest degree of coordination. In short, while the Phlogistinator may not be strictly overpowered compared to the wide degree of options the pyro has with the degreaser, axtinguisher and so on, it is a cheap counter intuitive weapon where the only solutions are really to rework it so it doesn't harm the experience so much, or to nerf it so that the counters to it are much more evident and that finally anyone with any degree of knowledge about the game realises that it's horrible so nobody uses this broken as f*** weapon. [/quote] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tomiix Posted February 24, 2012 Report Share Posted February 24, 2012 [quote name='Kizzi' timestamp='1330110099' post='5837785'] Do I have to post the whole thing again to get even a slight response? [/quote] Too long, didn't read. Plus I wouldn't understand half of it untill I got more experiance under my belt. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bull3tM0nk3y Posted February 24, 2012 Author Report Share Posted February 24, 2012 [quote name='Kizzi' timestamp='1330110099' post='5837785'] Do I have to post the whole thing again to get even a slight response? [/quote] [img]http://i0.kym-cdn.com/photos/images/original/000/154/912/berneydidnotread.gif[/img] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kizzi Posted February 24, 2012 Report Share Posted February 24, 2012 So, Phlog is op. Anyone else still think the Pomson is balanced? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Archbaron Larry Posted February 24, 2012 Report Share Posted February 24, 2012 [quote name='Kizzi' timestamp='1330122339' post='5838205'] So, Phlog is op. Anyone else still think the Pomson is balanced? [/quote] Hopefully, no. I think it's the most OP thing in this game so far. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bull3tM0nk3y Posted February 25, 2012 Author Report Share Posted February 25, 2012 Fine, it's "op". Happy? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ice. Posted February 25, 2012 Report Share Posted February 25, 2012 [quote name='Voltaire' timestamp='1330128597' post='5838426'] Fine, it's "op". Happy? [/quote] No because we share the same opinion now and I feel insulted. But anyways, I'm hoping the new med/scout s*** is actually balanced. I want new toys that are actually good. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bull3tM0nk3y Posted February 25, 2012 Author Report Share Posted February 25, 2012 [quote name='Stylish Alastor' timestamp='1330129870' post='5838489'] No because we share the same opinion now and I feel insulted. But anyways, I'm hoping the new med/scout s*** is actually balanced. I want new toys that are actually good. [/quote] THEY WILL BE! The only weapons that VALVe has made that is 60% - 100% OP has been the Tomy 65%, Enforcer 85%, CM5K (when it came out) 70%, Half-Zatoichi 65%, Backburner (when it came out) 90%, Sandvich (when it first came out, it had bugs and when they were fix, it was still overpowered) 70%, Fists of Steel (when it first came out) 60%, Overdose (right now) 80%, Machina 60%. It's only 9. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kizzi Posted February 25, 2012 Report Share Posted February 25, 2012 [quote name='Stylish Alastor' timestamp='1330129870' post='5838489'] No because we share the same opinion now and I feel insulted. But anyways, I'm hoping the new med/scout s*** is actually balanced. I want new toys that are actually good. [/quote] Heh, optimistic. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shradow Posted February 25, 2012 Report Share Posted February 25, 2012 [quote name='Voltaire' timestamp='1330130848' post='5838543'] Overdose (right now) 80%. [/quote] [media]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ztVMib1T4T4[/media] Also, got a Strange Overdose today for .44 ref. [url="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DLTZctTG6cE"]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DLTZctTG6cE[/url] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ice. Posted February 25, 2012 Report Share Posted February 25, 2012 [quote name='Voltaire' timestamp='1330130848' post='5838543'] THEY WILL BE! The only weapons that VALVe has made that is 60% - 100% OP has been the Tomy 65%, Enforcer 85%, CM5K (when it came out) 70%, Half-Zatoichi 65%, Backburner (when it came out) 90%, Sandvich (when it first came out, it had bugs and when they were fix, it was still overpowered) 70%, Fists of Steel (when it first came out) 60%, Overdose (right now) 80%, Machina 60%. It's only 9. [/quote] But the FoS are not OP. The Overdose isn't either, and the Machina sucks. I mean if you think those are OPed and the Grordbort weapons aren't, I worry for your entire view of the game. [quote name='Kizzi' timestamp='1330131210' post='5838557'] Heh, optimistic. [/quote] I WANT SCOUT TO HAVE SOMETHING REALLY FUN TO USE. But those gloves. Oh my god I want those gloves. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bull3tM0nk3y Posted February 25, 2012 Author Report Share Posted February 25, 2012 [quote name='Shradow' timestamp='1330131255' post='5838559'] [media]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ztVMib1T4T4[/media] Also, got a Strange Overdose today for .44 ref. [media]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DLTZctTG6cE[/media] [/quote] [quote name='Stylish Alastor' timestamp='1330131802' post='5838572'] But the FoS are not OP. The Overdose isn't either, and the Machina sucks. I mean if you think those are OPed and the Grordbort weapons aren't, I worry for your entire view of the game. I WANT SCOUT TO HAVE SOMETHING REALLY FUN TO USE. But those gloves. Oh my god I want those gloves. [/quote] I am saying it is OP due to NINJA MEDIC. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kizzi Posted February 25, 2012 Report Share Posted February 25, 2012 Overdose is nothing like overpowered. I'd say it's 50-50 debatable whether it's an upgrade or not. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bull3tM0nk3y Posted February 25, 2012 Author Report Share Posted February 25, 2012 NINJA. MEDIC. No sounds! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shradow Posted February 25, 2012 Report Share Posted February 25, 2012 That's called a bug, Pinkie. The Medic can hear his own Overdose, and I think it's the coolest sound ever. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kizzi Posted February 25, 2012 Report Share Posted February 25, 2012 [quote name='Voltaire' timestamp='1330136569' post='5838780'] NINJA. MEDIC. No sounds! [/quote] Oh wait, Valve managed to mess up ned's overdose sounds? Heh. Even so, you shouldn't really be getting ambushed and owned by medics. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ice. Posted February 25, 2012 Report Share Posted February 25, 2012 [quote name='Voltaire' timestamp='1330136569' post='5838780'] NINJA. MEDIC. No sounds! [/quote] So? I play with the damned sound off and I still do fine. Honestly if you're getting killed by Medics that's kinda sad. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bull3tM0nk3y Posted February 25, 2012 Author Report Share Posted February 25, 2012 [quote name='Stylish Alastor' timestamp='1330138403' post='5838842'] So? I play with the damned sound off and I still do fine. Honestly if you're getting killed by Medics that's kinda sad. [/quote] I don't. I [b]KILL[/b]. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tomiix Posted February 25, 2012 Report Share Posted February 25, 2012 You know your team sucks when the medic gets a rampage. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheTurtleOnceCalledGod Posted February 25, 2012 Report Share Posted February 25, 2012 [quote name='Rainbow Dash' timestamp='1330167003' post='5839529'] You know your team sucks when the medic gets a rampage. [/quote] Or you're just an awesome medic. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kizzi Posted February 25, 2012 Report Share Posted February 25, 2012 [quote name='Rainbow Dash' timestamp='1330167003' post='5839529'] You know your team sucks when the medic gets a rampage. [/quote] Yeah, pretty much. Sometimes I go on smallish valve servers just to needle bad players. It is pretty fun. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shradow Posted February 25, 2012 Report Share Posted February 25, 2012 [quote name='Rainbow Dash' timestamp='1330167003' post='5839529'] You know your team sucks when the medic gets a rampage. [/quote] I've had to go on rampages sometimes, because all my teammates died around me, not because they sucked. Ended up killing half the team, usually. YAY RANDOM CRITS! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bull3tM0nk3y Posted February 25, 2012 Author Report Share Posted February 25, 2012 I love that. What did you like from me Doc? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kizzi Posted February 25, 2012 Report Share Posted February 25, 2012 [quote name='Shradow' timestamp='1330192320' post='5839923'] I've had to go on rampages sometimes, because all my teammates died around me, not because they sucked. Ended up killing half the team, usually. YAY RANDOM CRITS! [/quote] Oh god, needle random crits are ridiculous. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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